Sources:

Animal Feeding and Nutrition by Jergens and Bregendahl
Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats by the NRC
AAFCO Pet Food and Specialty Pet Food Labeling Guide by the AAFCO
Various Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) from Actio Co.
Companion Animal Nutrition by Ackerman
Principles of Companion Animal Nutrition by McNamara
Organic Chemistry by Wade
Comparative Animal Biochemistry by Urich
Clinical Biochemistry of Domestic Animals by Kaneko, Harvey, and Bruce
And the beloved NutritionData.com

 

Someone should have done this a long time ago :biggrin:

Although, to be fair, a similar breakdown should be done on Orijen and EVO.... :wink:

 

Although, to be fair, a similar breakdown should be done on Orijen and EVO.... :wink:

Hahahaha, YOU get to do those ones! Maybe in a few weeks. Heck, maybe I'll start a series. :biggrin:

 

Yes, we all know about the defintions, and most know about the sources, all connections within the industry with interests to protect (money). I will address some of these as done in the past when time allows. Right now I have to split some firewood, take my daughter to Game Stop for a trade and try to watch/listen to football. Bye for now!

 

Go Colts! Still undefeated!

 

Boo Boo, PATRIOTS rule, but they lost today

 

Part 1: more facts

Definitions are subject to the thoughts feelings of those who write them and some obvious bias comes into play. They can choose to make them as glamorous or disgusting as the author sees fit. AAFCO would support industry definition, because they believe what the industry would tell them to be true. Interestingly enough, the foods people would assert as being 'crap' diets like Purina, Hills, Euk, are the big players in the industry. They are also the ones who did research and no doubt played a role in defining ingredients. People may not care for their products, but view their philosophy of defining ingredients as gospel. I am going to concentrate on three of the above listed in the opening post, Chicken By-Product Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, and Lard.

Chicken By Product Meal

Here is what Diamond feeds have to say about CBPM:

Chicken By-Product Meal
Animal source protein, made up mostly of internal organs such as liver, digestive tract, and kidneys. The intestines are a good source of smooth muscle protein. Fifteen percent of the meal includes meat and bone. No feathers. This ingredient is very digestible and very low in ash.

CBPM-DIAMOND

Compare that to the AAFCO definition quoted by Suzzie, one might get the impression we're talking about two different ingredients. Bias does play a factor in what your are led to believe, and up to you the reader to decide what you choose to believe.

What is the Abady approach to CBPM? What is best for the animal of course, and here are some quotes to think about: (I know Suzzie can keep with this, but not sure about the rest; well ramiller of course but that goes without saying)

When ingredients are selected for the production of dog food, there are many different factors that enter into the equation. An ingredient's nutritional yield versus its cost is central to sound dietary construction.
For example -- If ingredient A is nutritionally equivalent to ingredient B, but B costs 3 times as much for the same quantity of A, then the manufacturer who uses ingredient A can include 3 times more of it in his ration than the manufacturer using ingredient B and therefore can offer three times more nutrition at no greater cost.Ultimately, what a manufacturer spends on ingredients is a major determinant of the selling price of nutritional products, therefore the manufacturer who uses ingredient A can offer a significantly better product than the manufacturer who uses ingredient B, for the same cost to the consumer if all other factors are equal.
If a manufacturer were to include one and a half times as much of ingredient A as the manufacturer who uses ingredient B, the product manufactured with ingredient A could still be 50% more nutritious than the one that includes ingredient B yet it could cost less. While any dog food maker who puts nutrition first should be aware of these basic principles, as is the Abady Company, increasing numbers of manufacturers are producing diets that are built around the equivalent of ingredient B. By reading this article, the buyer of dog food can learn which feeds are predicated more on marketing (sales appeal) than on sound nutrition.

pinnacle

Important info in that quote above, especially three times as much protein for the same cost. Remember Abady is about what is best for the animal, not aesthetics or sales appeal. Also important, note nutritionally equivalent.

More about CBPM from Abady:

By-Products (internal organs) play a central role in the feeding of carnivores, as do muscle meat, fat and bone.
Poultry by-products meal is an economical and nutritious source of high quality animal protein.
It is composed of lungs, heads, gizzards, necks, feet, intestines (without their contents) and other clean parts of the carcass.
Nutritionally it is equal to superior to the ingredients discussed earlier and it costs many multiples less.

It is not true that heads or even feet (which represent only a small component of poultry by-products meal) are undesirable as components of dog food.
While they have little aesthetic appeal to humans, heads contain valuable brain, tongue and ocular tissue, and feet are 20% protein & 16% fat.
Both are rich in various amino acids and fatty acids of the most important varieties.
Among these can be found Arginine (essential for fertility and immune system support) Glycine (a potent free-radical scavenger and a component of glucose tolerance factor which regulates insulin metabolism) and Aspartic acid (which helps with the synthesis of glycoprotein and with the detoxification of ammonia). Feathers are NOT a component of poultry by-products meal, unless it is of very low quality.

pinnacle

Remember, costing less because of that appeal means 3X's as much can be offered to the animal.

Doubts about nutritionally equivelant? Please do some comparisons for yourself:

griffin-chicken meal

griffin-PBPM

Looking at the numbers, you can clearly see one holds no distinct advantatge over the other...except for costs.

Again, Abady on CBPM and as to why it is used:

Poultry or chicken by-products meals are among the most nutritious sources of protein available to dog food makers today. They are often the nutritional equivalent of muscle meat. Because they are not consumed by people their cost is relatively low and can be used abundantly in rations while keeping the cost of the food moderate and the quality high. Intelligent dog food producers (like Abady) recognize this and take full advantage of it. In fact, it is impossible to make a dog or cat food today that contains enough quality animal protein without the liberal inclusion of by-products.

How To Choose

 

Part II: more facts

Menhaden Fish Meal

Terrible description in the definition quoted in the opening post. More bias and author opinion. Again up to the authors personal opinion and bias, or maybe just who they work for?

What is it? Look at the Wiki information. Take note in the upper right hand corner of each page Scientific Classification.

Menhaden

Herring

Did you note the scientific classification? They are indeed the same family.

What other foods do we find this ingredient? Orijen and EVO both contain the same ingredient, called Herring meal. Abady calls it Menhaden Fish meal, in essence the same ingredient. What do they have to say by definition?

Herring meal is the clean, rendered (cooked down), dried ground tissue of undecomposed whole herring or herring cuttings, either or both, with or without the extraction of part of the oil.

Herring meal is a good source of Omega 3 fatty acids. Natura uses the whole herring including the oil from this excellent food fish in our cat and dog food products.

EVO product...see ingredient

Orijen

Loaded with bio-available protein, herring is considered as "brain food" for its rich DHA and EPA Omega-3 fatty acid content.

orijen

Taste of the Wild...they don't bother to call it Menhaden or Herring Meal, they just call it Ocean Fish Meal....how generic!

Ocean fish meal
A high quality source of protein and omega-3 fatty acids. The omega-3 fatty acids from marine sources, EPA and DHA, provide nutrition for optimal skin and coat health as well as excellent overall health.

Taste of...

I don't think they're fooling anybody, we all know what it is. So, what on earth makes you think Herring meal or Ocean Fish Meal is any better than Menhaden. It is not. Same family, same scientific classification, and the definitions is subject to that bias. Choose what you wish to believe, but what you can trust is what Abady has to say about this whole shooting match...remember in essence we are talking about the same ingredient, so EVO feeders, Orijen feeders, please read the following for a better understanding of why it is in the mix (just substitute the word herring for menhaden and you're all set):

Menhaden contains only one third as much salt as meat meal and less than either lamb or chicken meal, yet contains more than double the amount of natural potassium than lamb meal and 53% percent more than meat meal.

Menhaden's protein profile is also without peer.

It contains 91% more Lysine per gram than meat meal, 65% more than lamb meal, and 35% more than chicken meal. Lysine is essential for dogs to attain their maximum growth.
There is 146% more Tryptophan in Menhaden than is found in lamb meal, 66% more than in meat meal and 20% more than in chicken meal. Tryptophan is a nutrient affecting brain chemistry and neuro-transmitter function.
There is 60% more Valine in Menhaden than in meat meal and 30% more than in lamb meal. Valine is involved in muscle metabolism.

There is 161% more Methionine in Menhaden than in meat meal, 140% more than in lamb meal and 57% more than in poultry meal. Methionine is an anti-oxidant and free radical scavenger and is vital in forming the structure of nucleic acids, collagen and in the ability of each cell to synthesize protein. It also supports the immune system.
There is 90% more Tyrosine in Menhaden than in meat meal, 70% more than in lamb meal, and 17% more than in poultry meal. Tyrosine is essential in the production of thyroid hormones. A deficiency can cause thyroid problems. Tyrosine is also vital in maintaining pigment in skin, coat and soft tissue, preventing them against colour changes.

Low blood pressure (not uncommon in small dogs and toy breeds) can also result from inadequate levels of Tyrosine.

There are significantly larger amounts of Glutamic Acid, Histadine, Aspartic Acid, Threonine, Phenylalanine, Leucine and Isoleucine (all vital amino acids) than are found in any of the other meals.
Last but not least in Menhaden's uniquely fatty acid content.

There are two types of fat required for animal survival - the visible or hard fat and the unsaturated or invisible fats.

The invisible fats form part of the structural material in the cells of many of the body's vital organs, i.e. the brain, heart, kidneys, testes, thyroid, spleen and muscle cells.

There are two critically needed unsaturated invisible fatty acids - Linoleic and Linolenic.

Linoleic acid is fairly abundant in some vegetable oils and is found in variable amounts in some animal meals. Linolenic Acid, on the other hand, has virtually disappeared from commercially prepared animal meals as a result of modern commercial farming and feeding practices. As a result, Linolenic Acid does not appear at all, or appears only anecdotally in many commercial dog foods.

Although the dogs body can manufacture a facsimile of Linolenic Acid if there is an abundance of Linoleic Acid (which is rarely the case) the facsimile made by the body is but a poor imitation of the original linolenic and therefore cannot perform the complex intra-cellular functions of the original.

Progressive retinal atrophy and other eye disorders, as well as thyroid, kidney, malformations of the brain and heart are becoming increasingly more common in dogs. Linolenic Acid is vital for the formation, maintenance and function of these organs. A shortfall of this critical nutrient in commercial canine diets should be a matter of growing concern to dog owners.To make matters worse, dog food manufacturers have no incentive to include Linolenic Acid in their diets or assure its availability, since the standards generally used by the Industry are based on the previous erroneous scientific position that the facsimile of Linolenic Acid made by the body from Linoleic Acid functions as an adequate substitute for the original.

Bad as the situation is concerning the virtually non-existent supply of Linolenic Acid in commercial diets, it is made even worse because the availability of even a limited supply is put into question by popular methods of manufacturing dog food. Baking and extruding chunks with steam, under pressure, are known to interfere with the release and, therefore, availability of both Linoleic and Linolenic Acids.

No such problems exist with feeds manufactured by the Abady Company, since abundant supplies of Menhaden fish meal included in every formulation insure that each diets contains thousands of milligrams of Linolenic Acid and Linoleic Acid.
Equally important is the Abady Company's original two-step, low heat manufacturing process which insures the availability of both of these essential nutrients.

Cold-water free-ranging Menhaden is one of the richest sources of Linoleic and Linolenic Acids in the world.

the best

If you see herring meal, ocean fish meal, Menhaden fish meal, you now know its importance. Don't be fooled or deterred by how one chooses to describe ingredients, including AAFCO writers. Herring meal, will spoil just like menhaden meal and as quickly if that is the case, we're talking about the same stuff.

 

Part II Response

These aren't definitions. These are the analysis of individual ingredients based on scientific information available and NOT any wiki sources or popular articles. Most of the information used to conduct these analyses of these ingredients come from sources completely independent of the AAFCO or FDA.

While in the same family, Herring and Menhaden are not the same fish. My housecats are in the same family as the Siberian tiger, but that does not make them the same cat (thank goodness).

Pacific Herring (Clupea harengus pallasi)

Menhaden Fish Meal

Atlantic Menhaden (Brevoortia tyrannus)

The largest difference nutritionally is the presence of thiaminase in Menhaden, but not in the Pacific Herring. There IS thiaminase in the Baltic Herring, but simply based on geographics, it is safe to assume that they use Pacific Herring.

Tearing down other products does not improve the quality of Abady.

Yes, ocean fish meal is vague.

No, Menhaden fish do spoil more rapidly than Herring fish. This is because Menhaden fish are very high in volatile aromatic compounds meaning that they oxidize very rapidly unless treated with an antioxidant shortly after death. While these volatile aromatic compounds are present in other fish, they are not present in nearly as high of compounds.

 

Part III: more facts

Lard

What a nasty definition by AFFCO. A real turn off ehh? I know it is when you read what THEY want you to believe...for whatever reasons...costs maybe?

Taking a closer look:

Rendered fat from pig carcasses (sheep and cattle are also used). The best quality is from the fat surrounding the kidneys; neutral lard is the highest quality, prepared by agitating the minced fat with water at a temperature below 50 °C; kidney fat provides No. 1 quality; back fat provides No. 2 quality.

Leaf lard is made from the residue of kidney and back fat after the preparation of neutral lard by heating with water above 100 °C in an autoclave. Prime Steam Lard is fat from any part of the carcass, rendered in the autoclave.

Lard used to be stored in pig's bladder, hence the expression ‘bladder of lard’ for a grossly obese person.

answrs.lrd

Lard has clearly won the health debate. Shortening, the synthetic substitute foisted on this country over the last century, has proven to be a much bigger health hazard because it contains trans fats, the bugaboo du jour. Corporate food scientists figured out long ago that you can fool most of the people most of the time, and shortening (and its butter-aping cousin, margarine) had a pretty good ride after Crisco was introduced in 1911 as a substitute for the poor man’s fat.

A.Sorkin

The latest studies amazingly show that lard isn’t harmful, as it was thought, but healthy! The lard contains the arachidonic acid that relates to polyunsaturated fatty acids (Omega-6). Omega-6 is part of heart, brain and kidney tissues and essential for their proper functioning. The lard has anticancer effect as the most of carcinogens dissolve in fatty acids. As the arachidonic acid can improve metabolism and dissolve cholesterol, the lard helps remove toxins...

genius cook

Lard or pork fat is about 40% saturated, 48% monounsaturated (including small amounts of antimicrobial palmitoleic acid) and 12% polyunsaturated. Like the fat of birds, the amount of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids will vary in lard according to what has been fed to the pigs. In the tropics, lard may also be a source of lauric acid if the pigs have eaten coconuts. Like duck and goose fat, lard is stable and a preferred fat for frying. It was widely used in America at the turn of the century. It is a good source of vitamin D, especially in third-world countries where other animal foods are likely to be expensive. Some researchers believe that pork products should be avoided because they may contribute to cancer. Others suggest that only pork meat presents a problem and that pig fat in the form of lard is safe and healthy.

Mary Enig PhD, renouned expert

Lard is good.

Yes, lard makes for a heavenly, moist and flakey texture for baked goods, but before you become riddled with guilt for your indulgence in greasy goodness, consider the health benefits of animal fats.

3 surprising benefits

* Lard is 40 percent saturated fat (compared to coconut oil's 85 percent and palm kernel oil's 80 percent)
* Lard contains 'a very respectable' 45 percent monounsaturated fat (for more on the benefits of monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs) see the e-alert 'Change your diet to avoid Parkinsons disease' 21/7/05)

Now, in spite of the MUFA content of lard, the medical mainstream might swoon at the thought of 40 percent saturated fat. After all, saturated fats will kill you, right? They'll clog your arteries and stop your heart, correct?

Answers: No and No.

healtier life

In summation, when you look at the definitions written I think one should keep in mind they can make it sound as gross and disgusting as they prefer, but a company such as Abady will do what is best for the animal regardless.

Some of you would opt never to feed Abady products, but then again keep in mind no matter how some products may be glorified, some would also opt never to feed the products you may choose to feed.

Thanks for reading.

 

Part I response:

My definition came from the published AAFCO guidelines.

While nutritionally, they are the same when placed into a bomb calorimeter and other tests are done (such as using ether extracts and measuring nitrogen levels) to determine the analysis. But, that does not mean that both at equal in terms of bioavailability to the animal. The animal cannot utilize as much of the nutrients found in chicken by-product meal as it can those of chicken meal.

 

I believe anything you say Suzie, well not really but you seem so nice! Is there any science or data to back up that claim the animal cannot utilize CBPM as well as CM? Because AAFCO says so?

 

Part III Response

"Rendered fat of pig" is not scary, just accurate. All that means is that it is pig fat, melted down.

Lard is high in linoleic acid. That's good. But, it is not the best land animal source of linoleic acid as claimed by Abady. That is concerning to me.

Listed per 100g of substance

Turkey fat 21201 mg
Chicken fat 19503 mg
Duck fat 11999 mg
Lard 10199 mg
Mutton tallow 5501 mg
Beef tallow 3100 mg

Lard is very low in nutrients no matter how one looks at it.

 

Lard is high in linoleic acid. That's good. But, it is not the best land animal source of linoleic acid as claimed by Abady. That is concerning to me.

Listed per 100g of substance

Turkey fat 21201 mg
Chicken fat 19503 mg
Duck fat 11999 mg
Lard 10199 mg
Mutton tallow 5501 mg
Beef tallow 3100 mg

Lard is very low in nutrients no matter how one looks at it.

They claim, longest chain of the carbons...less work for the body to do when it comes to the conversions to make the carbon chains long enough to be useable...really I gotta get some ZZZZ'ss. nite nite again!

 

lets move on

Hey people, has anyone heard the one about "beating a dead horse". Lets call it a draw and move on with our lives.

 

Wow Suzy, great info, but I think most know that Abady is nowhere near as good as Orijen or Evo. Or any of the other several top foods.

I mean wow, claybuster is quoting from the guy that owns abady! Like he's gonna say my food is shit.

 

I'm glad that was helpful to someone. :smile:

You are correct, most are aware that Orijen or Evo are superior to Abady. Most don't know why, though.

Yes, Charlie is quoting from the owner of Abady. It is extremely unlikely that Abady would say anything but shining reviews of his own product. It is just so interesting to me that it is nearly unanimous among all other sources that Abady is a subpar food except for one, that one being Abady himself with little real science behind it. Most of Charlie's sources don't make sense to me, though, so I just go with it.

Don't take it personally. You know what you are feeding is appropriate for your dogs and there is absolutely nothing that Charlie can do about it. How likely is it that he would actually go out of his way to feed Abady to your dogs? Not very. :wink:

 

If you feel they are one and the same (which they aren't), continue feeding it.

Regarding that "digestibility" number, what does that mean? Where did they get that number? Did they calculate is by producing a chicken digest? Did they conduct feeding trials?

"Digestibility" is not a number with any scientific significance that I am aware of.

I am most curious about your opinions on the other ingredients, as well.

 

..
"Digestibility" is not a number with any scientific significance that I am aware of. ...QUOTE]

Sounds good to me! So when we hear one is more digestible than the other we can conclude there really is no scientific merit to back up that claim and if any, insignificant.

 

Its that HOLIDAY time of year! I'm not even going to comment on this thread! The last time I did on another thread, it got locked, so nope not even going to comment!
I say Happy Holidays to everyone though!:biggrin:

 

The reason it was closed was not because of the information being given, it was because it had deteriorated into name calling.

 

I agree with wags...time to put the Abady vs. THE WORLD to rest.

Happy Holidays to all :biggrin: :wink:

 

SuZQuzie - dont strain yourself too hard, we've already made peace with the fact that claybuster will not change his mind, but I find comfort in the fact that 99.9% of people who come to this board use common sense and go with the more obvious choices when it comes to picking out a better quality kibble.

 

THESE AREN'T DEFINITIONS. THEY ARE COMPILATIONS OF DATA FROM VARIOUS SOURCES.

Got it? :smile:

Persians and Siamese are the same species and can interbreed. Menhaden and Herring aren't even in the same genus. One must "go back" 3 steps to find a similar ancestor between the two fish.

Digestible Energy is a number with a very specific definition and each species has their own DE value for every single feedstuff. If one fed, say, corn biggrin to a dog, a cat, a pig, a horse, and a cow, they would all be able to obtain a different amount of energy from it. Digestibility does not fall into those parameters.

Yes, natural flavor could be blood... or anything else for that matter, including something that actually is toxic to dogs.

Abady explains that the body prefers plant linoleic acid to linolenic acid to utilize. I agree. The body won't use plant linolenic acid in sufficient quantities.

Inexpensive is a descriptive term that has little to do with quality of a feedstuff.

White rice is recommended to ease digestive upset because it contains no complex nutrients to digest before utilization. It IS low in nutrients, which is great because nutrients are hard to get from the food to the body.

BMBM is high in protein, by is it obtainable by the animal? Let's say I have a thousand dollar bill. It definitely has a real monetary value, right? I want to buy groceries. Do you think I can just go to Ralph's and buy $50 of groceries with the thousand dollar bill? I could try, but I would probably get turned away. I would have to go to the bank to "refine" it into much smaller bills that I can actually use on a daily basis.

I don't understand what you are saying regarding beef liver. I said nothing bad about it. You are incredibly argumentative.

Google is not synonymous with research.


I never said inorganic was bad or unnatural; it's just what it is.

Chelated compounds are more absorbable forms of a mineral and are naturally occuring. Hemoglobin (like the stuff found in aminals!) is a rich source of iron proteinate.

Does Abady have any enlightening articles for we they are using cupric oxide? I'm REALLY curious about that one!

 

Compilation of data yes, but it is how they are DEFINED by sources like AAFCO, no? I realize you may or may not agree with the data as to whether it really means good or bad.

Ok, sure I know they are not the exact same fish, but how close do they have to be before it becomes moot point? Are they not both in there for the same reasons?

About the liver, just pointing out why it's in there as opposed to some other options, don't mean to sound argumentative. I know you did not say anything negative in those regards.

Have never read anything fro Abady in regards to the Cupric Oxide, but I did find this:

It is occasionally employed for incorporation in mineral supplements for insuring against an insufficiency of copper in the diet of animals

Copper.org: Applications: Copper Compounds - Other Copper Compounds
Is that a bad thing? Forget it, I don't want to know, I'm sure there are a gazillion negatives you can find.


I get the feeling I am becoming annoying to you when it is not my intent. This is a thread about Abady ingredients, but maybe there is no room for discussion? I'll just drop it I guess. Last thing I want to get you or anyone else annoyed or upset. Looking forward to future posts about the ingredients found in some of the popular brands, like a segment you mentioned. I'm willing to bet that all the compilation of data translates into wonderful descriptive defining statements that aren't really definitions of the more popular foods with lot's of sales appeal.

Really, I'll stop. You put your time into the opening post, you've got some patting you on the back for a good job in letting the 'facts' be known about those Abady ingredients.

 

Concerns:
-Absence of a muscle meat with high nutrient availability
-High concentrations of linoleic acid and low concentrations of linolenic acid
-Use of protein-dense supplements to bolster protein counts
-The use of mineral products with low bioavailability
-Contains two compounds that alter the actual amount of thiamine in the feed
-Contains potassium iodide
-Contain cupric oxide

Absence of a muscle meat: Abady will tell us diets that start off with muscle meats are some of the worst imaginable! On a solids basis after the 75% of the moisture content has been baked or steamed out, leaves you only with 25% of an ingredient. Only a portion of that is actual chicken protein (.50) so you are looking at only 12.5% of that starter ingredient as actual protein.
This 'nonsensical approach' to making dog food was by no surprise the same approach to the diets recommended by the Whole Dog Journal. Dog are therefore penalized by this approach...the foods worthy of your dinner table mentality. In order for nutrients to be available to the animal, they have to be there to begin with, and is in the case with meat muscle diets, there simply is not enough there...you can't get blood out of a stone.

High concentrations of linoleic acid and low concentrations of linolenic acid:
Take a look at some of the more popular diets and their content of linoleic acid (omega 6's). In all fairness, I will look at the fishy formulas.

Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Formula w/ Smoked Salmon
Omgea 6's 2.4% minimum
Omega 3's 0.3% minimum

EVO Herring and Salmon Formula
Omega 6's 1.4% minimum
Omega 3's 2.6% minimum

Orijen 6 Fish for Dog
Omega 6's 3.0% minimum
Omega 3's 1.2% minimum

Abady Ganulars Linoleic content (6's)
Toy: not less than 4%
Maintenance: not less than 5%
Classic: not less than 5%
Basic: not less that 5.0%
Pup lg Breed: not less than 6.2%
Pup Giant breed: not les than 5.0%

Note which company tops the list with the highest concentrations of linoleic acids…Abady of course and even the fish formulas of the top sales appeal oriented companies aren’t even in the same league.

Why no mention of Omega 3's? Good question and best answer...its a moot point. Abady explains:

The essential fatty acid linoleic acid and its derivatives are the omega 6’s. Linolenic acid and its derivatives are the omega 3’s. They cannot be synthesized by the body - they must be present in the diet. The most important of the two are linoleic acid and its derivatives, the omega 6’s because they have more tasks to perform; they can even replace the omega 3’s if the omega 3’s are deficient or absent....The omega 6 fatty acid may lower blood cholesterol by causing it to degrade faster. The omega 3 fatty acid will also lower blood cholesterol by reducing the availability of carriers for it. In this scenario the omega 6 is the most important....Overstating the amounts of omega 3 fatty acids in a diet in relation to the amounts of omega 6 fatty acids is a prescription for disaster (we know of one company that makes this error and brags about it as if it were advantageous - it isn’t) particularly because the omega 3’s cannot substitute for the omega 6’s, while the omega 6’s do substitute for shortages of the omega 3’s. The Abady Company was the first company, over 30 years ago, to recognize the need for omega 3 fatty acids and to address it.

Is EVO one of those companies overstating amounts of 3's leading to people to believe it is advantageous? Reality is, of all the mentioned diets, Abady top the list with the highest concentration of Omega 6s in the diet. Any concerns about shortages of 3's is an invalid concern. Abady was the first to address the need for 3's in the diet, leaders in the industry, by no means followers.

The use of mineral products with low bioavailability: Lesser of 2 evils. Go with what is most natural or offer plant matter or synthetics?

Contains two compounds that alter the actual amount of thiamine in the feed:
No comment for the two compounds were not mentioned

Contains potassium iodide: again, keyword...NATURAL.

The major uses of KI include nutritional supplement in animal feeds...

wiki

Contain cupric oxide: Addressed earlier in a post... And again …ala natural!

 

Muscle meat as in meals and I don't mean by-products.

While linoleic can substitute for linolenic, it causes an inflammation response.

Chelates are naturally occuring and are the forms of minerals found in meat, while the minerals in Abady come from rocks or are synthesized.

Thiaminase is found in Menhaden fish and then choline chloride inhibits various vitamin B uptakes. Granted, it is one of the few stable forms of choline so the only choice.

Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good for you. Cyanide is natural, too.

 

Causes inflammation? Where do find this stuff...lol

Yes, I know about the cyanide...you won't find any Yucca in Abady ingredinents!

 

I been watching this thread and all I can say is I totally respect Dog food Analysis and what the say and how they get to their rating of each product. They rate this food as a ''''one'''' star which is as low as you can get and for good reason.

Dog Food Reviews - 1 Star Dry Dog Food - Powered by ReviewPost

I GOOGLED EVERY FOOD IN THIS PRODUCT AND FOUND THE DEFINTIONS TO BE MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHAT CLAY CLAIMS. THIS PRODUCT IS VERY VERY INFERIER AND I AGREE TOTALLY WITH DOGFOODANALYSIS. THIS PRODUCT IS GARBAGE.

HERE IS A QUOTE OF ONE OF THE FOODS IN THIS PRODUCT......Keep in mind this is only the beginning of what I found......

Menhaden is the major source of fish meal produced in the U.S. The fish are taken in Atlantic coastal waters from Maine to Florida and in the Gulf of Mexico. Menhaden are not used for human food but for oil used in paints, soaps, and lubricants and as an ingredient in margarine in Europe. The fish are ground, cooked and processed to yield three products: presscake, fish solubles and oil. The final fish meal product may be simple presscake meal, full meal (all the soluble are added back into the presscake), or some combination of presscake and soluble.
Fish meal used for animal feed should be stabilized with an antioxidant such as ethoxquin to prevent the fish oil from becoming rancid.

I could not find anywhere that they say they do not use ethoxquin......So in my thinking they use this crap.

Annnd this what I found out about MARIGOLD the product Clay is always attacking.....Girls take notes, lol


Medicinal uses : Marigold is used for stomach upset, ulcers, menstrual period problems, eye infections, inflammations, and for wound healing. It is antiseptic. If the Marigold flower is rubbed on the affected part, it brings relief in pain and swelling caused by a wasp or bee. A lotion made from the flowers is most useful for sprains and wounds and a water distilled from them is good the sore eyes. The infusion of the freshly gathered flowers is beneficial in fever. Marigold flowers are mostly in demand foe children ailment. Externally it is used in the treatment of alopecia. Internally it is used to treat bladder and kidney problems, blood in the urine, uterine bleeding and many more.

How about dandelions....

Dandelion has been used for its nutritional value as well as for water retention, regulation of blood glucose, upset stomach, urinary tract infections, kidney and bladder stones, liver and gallbladder complaints, and loss of appetite.

 

I been watching this thread and all I can say is I totally respect Dog food Analysis and what the say and how they get to their rating of each product. They rate this food as a ''''one'''' star which is as low as you can get and for good reason. ...

I don't trust anything they say over there. Some of the top picks are the worst imaginable IMO. Complete 100% supportive of omnivore nutrition and will probably try to convince you as well your dog is an omnivore.

GSL: Menhaden is the major source of fish meal produced in the U.S. ...

Probably called Ocean Fish Meal or Herring meal legally because the profiles are so close. They do have a lot of room there under the law in labeling. That would not surprise me at all if it was in your foods as well, disguised under another name.

GSL: Medicinal uses : Marigold is used for stomach upset, ulcers, menstrual period problems, eye infections, inflammations, and for wound healing. It is antiseptic. If the Marigold flower is rubbed on the affected part, it brings relief in pain and swelling ...

Probably need all those healing properties to combat all the problems being caused by the other inappropriate ingredients.

Here's what I found:

On chemical analysis, the calendula flowers were found to contain a volatile oil, many bitter chemical principles, different types of carotenoids, a lot of mucilage, plant resin, all kinds of polysaccharides, plant acids and a variety of alcoholic compounds, different compounds such as the saponins and other glycosides, as well as different kinds of sterols. Calendula

Saponins...caused bloat in every animal tested. But remember they want you belive it is a mystery or genetics.

No thanks. Despite all the negative press by the food critics, I will continue on the same path, a more natural path for my dog. You folks can have the Flowers and Lawn Weeds. I don't want that stuff in my dog food.

 

I'm glad I pop open a 1200 mg fish oil pill and pour it on his food everyday. His coat seems better for it, I've been doing it for about a month, he doesn't smell fishy or anything. He doesn't seem to show any signs of me overdoing it.

 

I don't trust anything they say over there. Some of the top picks are the worst imaginable IMO. Complete 100% supportive of omnivore nutrition and will probably try to convince you as well your dog is an omnivore.

But...you feed your dog an omnivores diet??? I don't get your logic at all...

 

Non-allergenic white rice will not harm your dog in any way, shape or form. Therefore it makes an ideal filler type ingredient in a carnivore ration. Weak in protein therefore does not jeopardize the protein core in the ration with gluten.

 

Their are no FACTS to back up why dogs get bloat. I have done my homework. I even heard from one guy who said "if you feed or place a dogs water 6 inchs above the ground they can get bloat". No facts to back it up, I read a ton on this subject. I am letting this guy sink his own ship, some of the stuff he posts here is just down right funny and he thinks he is getting over on us or that we believe what he is posting, NOT. I really feel sorry for this guy and their is no doubt in my mind that he has some sort of interest in Abady dog foods. Salesman, stocks, board member or WHATEVER.

You know I love how you can just highlight a word and then google and research it. What a great tool to educate yourself on any and all subjects. It sure makes researching the ingedients in pet foods easy. I can even use Yahoo if I don't think I recieved enough info using goggle.:wink:

 

While ocean fish is arbitrary, herring meal may never ever be used to described menhaden meal.

While there is tons of more scientific articles out there, I chose one without too many big words in it for you. :smile:

Omega 3 Omega 6 Imbalance

 

Thank you Suzie for the wonderful article on human health. That is part of the problem behind many factors that impact are pets in a negative way, the mentality we should fed our pets like we feed ourselves. It comes as no surprise you offer up and an article geared for human health rather than canine health, for Veterinary science is at the forefront of promoting concepts such as feed your beloved pet like you would feed yourself and offer foods worthy of your dinner table...and in some cases flowers and lawn weeds:wink:

 

Once again, CB, all you did was quote Abady's promorional material. I don't accept that as fact any more than I accept Purina's or Iam's or any other dog food manufacturer. The only study mentioned was the discredited, flawed Purdue Bloat Study that ended up not proving anything. I have read the study and don't remember anywhere in it saying they could induce bloat into every single dog fed anything.

 

Well then you obviously must believe bloat is just a mystery. I think it is food caused.