See, I really have no problem with people not wanting to feed raw. That is their decision and, frankly, I respect that decision. If someone feeds a high quality kibble, that's excellent. What bothers me is when people aren't at least open to the idea of raw feeding. Or when people claim dogs aren't carnivores.

For me, feeding raw is actually more expensive, more of a hassle, less convenient and honestly, the results are not obvious miracles. But, even though kibble would be cheaper, easier and more convenient, and even though my dogs were healthy on kibble, it's worth all of the "hassle" for me. It is worth it to me because my dogs clearly exhibit greater mental happiness during mealtime. They have consistent firm stools instead of chronic loose stool. Most importantly, I know that a diet of fresh food is better than processed food for anyone.

I know that raw is best for my dogs and that is all I am concerned about. If things hadn't fallen into place for me, I would still be feeding kibble and my dogs would probably still be healthy. :smile:

 

No no, I think you missed my point.
I dont care if people don't feed raw.
What irks me is the misconceptions and the excuses based on those misconceptions. Absolutly by ALL means, feed what you'd like, but it saddens me to see people turn something down based on FALSE information.

 

My point is that for me it IS expensive. And I know I'm not the only person out there who ends up spending more feeding a raw diet than a high quality kibble diet. I also know that some people spend less feeding raw than kibble. This seems to depend greatly on where you live and your resources. I believe feeding raw will get cheaper as the years go on and I build more connections. But not everyone has the desire to put that much effort into feeding their pets.

Unsanitary? Well, I'm not going to lie. The smell of raw meat makes me gag. And, I see why people are turned off by handling raw meat for their dogs. (A few days a month my house feels like a butcher). But, I deal. Again, I truly don't realistically expect the majority of pet owners to put forth this effort. That is why they developed kibble, right? For convenience because America got lazy :wink: I will say - of all excuses this one bugs me the most, though. People do seem to get unnecessarily hung up on the shedding of bacteria in poop...

And the time thing, well, I do actually worry how I will keep up with this once I start full time teaching, start a family, etc. etc. It will be a challenge. Things take me longer than most people...for some reason (perfectionist, maybe?) :doh: and I find myself spending a sometimes excessive amount of time selecting and organizing the following week's worth of food from freezer to fridge. I can see how this could be a legitimate concern, especially when first starting raw feeding.

I guess my point is just that I don't see all of the above excuses as ridiculous. It took me at least a year to finally take the leap, and I'm pretty easily influenced :wink: Maybe because I am so new I can still remember vividly how I felt before.

 

I think my biggest gripe with misconceptions is when people immediately react to the idea of raw as if it was poison, and absolutely refuse to listen to any information that would show them otherwise. I hate the whole "kibble is magical foodstuff that can't possibly be reproduced at home" mindset. Who in their right mind really believes that a highly processed food could be healthier than a fresh alternative?

I blame the marketing.

I don't necessarily have anything against kibble feeders. A very good friend of mine thought the idea of feeding raw was wonderful and the day I told her about it, decided to try it with her GSD puppy. Unfortunately, the introduction of raw food also revealed a big resource-guarding problem that frankly I think is too severe for her to handle without professional help. So for now, until she can afford to get that professional help, the less-exciting kibble keeps everyone happy and safe in their household.

 

Candice, let your friend know about Nothing In Life Is Free. Basically, have her chop up her dog's food into small bits, and make a training session out of it. I got a dog from a shelter a while back that had MASSIVE resource guarding habits. It was horrible, because I couldn't even be in the room with him and he was growling. He was constantly growling and snapping at the other dogs, even though they were in separate crates. After the first night, I started chopping up his chicken and feeding it to him piece by piece, making him learn how to sit, stay, wait, easy, etc., in the process, and literally, within two days, there were no more resource guarding habits.

 

Just wanted to add: this applies to many many areas of life, NOT just raw. There are a few things I am very passionate about, all of which seem to be surrounded by a thick cloud of misconception. I just hate to see decisions- especially ones that have HUGE bearing on various aspects of life.

My two biggest passions:
Natural childbirth/ homebirth
pmr

 

Linsey, would you be as passionate about raw if everyone fed it? I think that if there were no misconceptions about raw feeding, and if everyone was open-minded enough to listen to what we have to say about it, rather than sticking their nose up with these astonishing claims and misconceptions, then we wouldn't have a need to be so passionate about it, and thus we wouldn't be. I love reading, but I'm not passionate about making other people read, because most people already do. However, I DID get passionate about it where my ex-douche bag was involved, because he "hated" reading. XD

 

I know how you feel, most of the people that are in my club think I'm crazy and hurting my dogs. They are not even open to seeing the health benifits. They act like I give my dogs poision. I'm just frustrated with the block. And they don't understand my issues with Science Diet and corn!!

 

Yeah. I get they'll turn on you if you feed raw. I even got that my kittens will eat my kids fingers LOL. Well last time I checked they had them all still :wink:

People do the same for non-vax parents, and organic foods and natural-o-pathic for humans. Why go the alternative when there is just the plain ole way that we have had for so long which is doing more harm then good.

 

My favorite one is: Doesn't your dog get aggressive?? haha :tongue:
When i started research about raw i was also a bit sceptical but i never even thought about him getting aggressive!!

And for me it cheaper or the same feeding raw! I used to feed acana and another english dog food! Maybe acana is a bit cheaper in the usa but here in austria it is pretty expensive! And i found a good meat supplier tht only supplies meat for dogs and cats! I can order pretty much anything i want! And we own a restaurant nd whenever my dad finds any good offers on meat he buys them!
So for me it isn't really more expensive!
And i never thought i could handle raw meat, but you get used to it, it's actually fun :becky:!
Although i probably couldn't eat it myself after preparing it for my dog :tongue: but i don't eat a lot of meat because i don't really like it!!

 

As a breeder of mini dachshunds (which is a breed that is not commonly raw-fed) I HATE the excuses of "I have too many dogs". IF YOU HAVE TOO MANY DOGS TO BE ABLE TO CARE FOR THEM PROPERLY, DO NOT HAVE THAT MANY DOGS! UGH!!!! I always bring up that I have nine... and it takes me 10 minutes to prepare AND feed.

Also (I know you guys are probably getting sick of me saying this) but as a kibble feeder I lost aproximiately 10% of the puppies at birth - it was just "one of those things." I have been feeding PMR for 1.5 years and haven't lost a single puppy at birth. I'm always reading on Doxie Spot - Index page, when announcing births, breeders are saying, "We lost this little boy, but Mom and babies are doing well." And I'm thinking, "It doesn't have to be that way."

And I see a lot of fat dachshunds... it doesn't have to be that way, either. When I'm at the vet's getting check-ups on my puppies, it never fails that at least one person walks in to get a steroid shot for their dogs allergies. Again, it doesn't have to be that way. ::sigh::

 

I talk about raw (and other feeding methods) during at least one session of every training class that I teach. I get at least one person saying "But dogs can't have bones!" every single time!!!! I swear if I have to explain why dogs SHOULD have bones one more time I'm going to explode!!! :mad2:

 

I talk about raw (and other feeding methods) during at least one session of every training class that I teach. I get at least one person saying "But dogs can't have bones!" every single time!!!! I swear if I have to explain why dogs SHOULD have bones one more time I'm going to explode!!! :mad2:

This!

The people that act like I have NO clue what I'm doing........when they really have no idea how many countless hours I've spent researching & learning before I started and continue to do so even after I've been feeding raw for over 9 months now.

I feel your frustration!

 

ITA agree with harrkim and Northwoods! I have a Facebook page for my "kennel" and I'm always promoting PMR feeding... I get REALLY tired of answering the "I thought bones were bad for dogs?" question. But, I answer it with a smile on my face, because it helps pave the way!

And yes, those who think I am a total idiot at what I'm doing when I have researched my feeding method FAR MORE than they have researched theirs. What have they done? Watched an ad on TV for Pedigree? (I admit, David Duchovony's voice is pretty sexy...)

I like to say, "Just THINK about it! At the very basic form, you are feeding your dog PROCESSED, deydrated, food that has been pumped full of chemicals... WHY are you doing that when doctors tell us that fresh, whole foods is best?" I mean... just THINK about it...!!!

 

I think the coolest experience I have with raw feeding and people who didn't have a clue was with my parents. Without seeing it to believe it, I know my dad would have been one of these "people" we have been talking about.

They had come to visit and I didn't tell them anything about me feeding raw. I just wanted to surprise them....muahahahaha..... :heh: So dinner time came and I got out my meat tub from the fridge. Both my parents were standing right there. I think at the time I was feeding pork ribs. So...I get the pork ribs and walk outside with the dogs practically tripping over themselves to get to the patio. My parents follow....all bug eyed. I give the dogs their meal and just step back. My parents mouth drops. Then I say "oh, by the way, I feed raw." It was awesome. :laugh:

After that we talked about raw feeding for a good 30 minutes. My parents were totally into it. After that they wanted to watch the dogs eat their every meal.

Too bad we can't just "show" everyone who is skeptical how great it is seeing a carnivore eat what they were born to eat.....:bored:

 

I still live at home and when i brought this topic up, i thought that my parents would be totally against it, but my dad was totally for it and was really excited about planning diets and buying meat
My mom needed a bit of convincing that the bones do no harm to the dog but now she's also totally into it and we also think of switching our cat to raw (my moms idea )

 

I feel the same way about the 'sanitary' issues of it. I mean come on now, really? What kind of dumb excuse is that? Antibacterialize everywhere you put the meat down on before and after! WTH people. Isn't it pretty basic to clean the counters you prepare your food on? I would think it would be the same way with dogs.

Prep time, seriously, to get my dogs to eat kibble it takes just as much time unless I'm opening a can of sardines to mix in...and even then I have to open the can, split the sardines up amongst my dogs, measure out the kibble to make sure everyone gets the right amount, separate everyone for feeding and make sure they actually eat the kibble instead of licking up the good stuff around it and then spitting it out back onto the floor.
Raw: When I get the raw food I split it up into the separate days of the weeks meals, take the bin containing the food for the days raw meal out the night before and put it in the fridge, take out the food from the fridge when it's defrosted enough to break apart, pick out the peices appropriate to each dogs size, hand out the food, everyone eats and I don't worry that no one will finish. Swiffer the kitchen floor when they're done, wipe down the counters/antibacterialize. In total, both usually take me about ten minutes total once everything is out. Defrost time for the meat does not count, it's seriously only a second to take out the next meal and put it in the fridge.

I think feeding raw is about 30000000x easier than feeding kibble when it comes to my dogs. It's also much more pleasurable for us all, I get the fun of watching them chow down on their meat, and they get the fun of eating delicious food.

I don't care what other people feed their dogs really, it' their choice. I just don't like the dumb excuses either, it's really annoying.

Also, I don't save a fortune feeding raw meat as a supplement with kibble. I just pay more on top of the kibble. When everyone is switched completely over to raw it might cost the same or a tiny bit more with the prices of meat around here. Those added few cents a meal are negligible compared to the benefits.

 

CavePaws - I agree. Watching my dogs eat raw is incredibly enjoyable (is that weird??). It's enjoyable because I hear them crunching that bone and I see how involved they are with their food.

Watching them eat kibble? Not so much...

 

Watching them eat kibble? Not so much...

I agree with you there! Only one of my two dogs is eating raw and she LOVES it. Plus, it's pretty fun to watch her eat her food. The other one.. not fun at all. He eats it really slowly and I have to get him to stay interested in it. Plus, there's no sound of bones crunching and he takes a veeeeeeeeeeerrry long time to eat. The only reason why he isn't switched to raw is because he is half my dog and half my boyfriend's dog.

 

Another one is that some people think toy dogs cannot digest raw, they say is fine with big dogs but that toy dogs can "only digest kibble or cooked food" and they will get sick with raw. :yuck:

Then they see my toy poodle and when they notice how soft his fur is :biggrin1: they tell on how their dogs have skin issues and the hair is falling. :doh: common if they want a good coat on their dogs stop feeding them alpo.

 

Here is what I have heard:

"You are going to kill your dogs."
"Raw meat will give them worms."
"Dogs can never have chicken bones! Stop feeding your dogs chicken bones!!!!!!!!! They're going to choke!"
"They will get salmonella!"
"You can't feed them pork, it has bacteria that will kill them."
"Ok, feed them meat but cook it first!"
"I would never feed my dog a raw bone but then, I love MY dog." (#$&@!!!!!)
"It's better to feed them dog food from the store because it's healthier."
"They will get addicted to the blood and become aggressive. I don't feel safe around your dogs." (OH PULEEEEEEZE!)
"You have no idea what you're talking about."

I wish it was as simple as addressing their concerns. They don't want to hear it. I've offered to show them the dog anatomy, to compare them with the wolf anatomy, I've given them the history of kibble and inquired just what did they think dogs ate before kibble came out? (crickets chirping), I tell them about the enzymes, I tell them about the digestive tract, I tell them we can't compare dogs to humans, I give them facts about different animals and how they react differently to things than a human would, I tell them that it's cooked bones the dogs can't eat, the raw ones are fine, I tell them that in some cases, yes, I do freeze for a couple of weeks before feeding the dogs, to kill any parasites that may be there, (fresh caught fish, deer from a hunter, etc.), I tell them it's not unsanitary at all, the dogs eat the exact same things humans eat, meat wise, because I get every last fricken piece of meat from the store, with exception of the deer and fresh caught fish, it's not like they are eating road kill...although....

Anyway, they have concluded that I'm an idiot and I'm gullible and I believe everything I read on the internet. Fancy coming from the lot of them..but that would take all night to explain...and they don't want to listen at all to any evidence I am willing to provide.

This has gone on since September. The longer they are fed raw, the shinier and shinier their coats get. They have TONS of energy. Yah, they are puppies but they have TONS of energy, even by puppy standards. I've had a puppy before...she was energetic...these two put her to shame in the energy department.

They listen better, they behave better, their fur is insanely shiny.

And while they may explain it away that I know how to train, (I'm just too stupid to know how to feed them, apparently), they cannot deny the shiny fur. But they don't want to admit it just yet. They'll have to, someday. If I stick around this neighborhood that long. Oh, and they also can tell with the poo. Every once in awhile, I'll leave some of their poo out there for them to look at. They never pick up after their dogs, ever. I let them see their dog's poo pile that looks like a human took a squat right there and they get to see my dogs' poo piles. The small, dark, hard poo piles that eventually turn white and disintegrate. (They also know they can no longer let their dog poo in my front yard and walk off thinking I'll believe it came from my own dogs....they know that if I see a lump of nasty looking dog poo in my front yard, it goes right on to their doorsteps. I can pretty much figure out what dog it came from by size. They know there's a difference in the poo...and they can't get away with it anymore at least in my yard. A small victory.)

The only thing I cannot argue is the expense. It is WAY more expensive for me to feed my pets raw. WAY more. We are talking about $100 more per month. If not more than that. A bag of cat food cost me $13 a bag and lasted a month. A bag of dog food cost me about $15 a bag and lasted almost two months. Raw....to feed the two hoodlums and the 7 cats? About $150 a month. Prices suck around here but it is definitely more expensive.

Right now.

Perhaps in the future, when I don't have to go to the vet, it will even out. Hard to say. I've never had to take a pet to the vet for anything drastic other than a broken leg and that had nothing to do with their diet. My pets went to the vet for vaccines and getting fixed. I cannot argue that point with anyone because in that situation, they are right.

But as far as I'm concerned, feeding raw is worth it whether I have to take them to the vet later on in life or not. They look fantastic, they behave fantastic, (most of the time), they are happy, they are healthy and they are eating like they are supposed to eat.

I've been feeding them raw since September. Gee, they haven't keeled over yet. Eventually these busy body yahoos are going to have to face that fact. That's the only way they'll ever be convinced. Talking won't work. Showing them will.

 

$150.00 per month sounds steep for 2 dogs and 7 cats. Is there not a co-op in the Miami area?

 

The boy gets about a pound of food a day, the girl about a half a pound of food.

The cats, some get 3 oz a day and some get 4 oz a day. In total, it comes out to about 90 pounds of food per month. Eighty percent of that is meat. The meat is expensive here. I finally got some deer but it's in the freezer and it's only going to last the dogs about 4-7 meals...and I don't get it very often.

As for co-ops, I haven't been able to find any. I've asked on a Yahoo group but I didn't get a reply. I have no idea where to find one. If anyone knows, I would LOVE to know because this is costly.

 

A few more.....

"Why feed raw when I can feed kibble? Its easier"

"Dogs can survive on grains & Plants.....they've evloved to eat cooked & processed diets, why feed raw?"

Don't even get me started on the last one.