I'd try adding a little more MEAT first. You are so new to raw, I wouldn't want to jump the gun with organ meats.

I know you were giving her ground w/ bone and some chicken necks....is that mostly what she's been getting? I see you said you gave her regular chicken with no bone....and she had been going fine up until today. I'd personally just add more meat and see if that helps.

Starting out for any dog its finding the correct balance.

 

Ok - so I should reduce the ground chicken with the bones, and add more plain chicken meat with no bones?

she has only had one meal with the bones in it- I am wondering if it's too soon for the bones to be causing the constipation, if the mineral oil etc. is just now getting out of her system after a few days of plain chicken.

I gotta say, between these two dogs, we are not getting off to a good start here. But no, I'm not thinking of quitting, I know I'm probably not doing this right.

 

The one meal of bone was that the chicken neck or ground chicken with bone?

Did she actually poop or just squatted like she thought she had to? I know you said she had swallowed the chicken neck almost whole...her body might still be breaking that down. I would just wait and see how she does the rest of today...she might be trying to pass that...and she will, it will just take some time.

 

Was this a full blown sad puppers when trying to pass her stool and failing, or was this just a hard poo?

I don't really consider it constipation until the dog really can't pass anything on straining. (might just be me).

Why are you grinding the bones up?

I ask because if this is at the start they need time to adjust to being able to breakdown the bones in their little tummies. If you were to feed a heavy boned meal with ground bones they have no time to adjust to digestion and that bone will I imagine just compact in here stomach.

If you are looking to feed bone in meals i am sure that she will be able to manage chicken wings as they are soft bones (unless there is a reason she can't chew which I don't know about).

raw works best the closer we can keep it to natural )

 

Thanks - no she can't chew, she only has four teeth. She will have to eat mostly ground up bones.

this was a whole chicken ground with bones, she got about 1/4 cup. And of course, she did swallow an entire chicken neck.

She is pooing, but it's a real struggle and my hubby says it's hard and lumpy. Not sure exactly what that means. This isn't anything new - I have had her for over a year and it's been a constant battle.

honestly, this was my biggest concern about the raw diet and also my biggest hope for her - her constipation issues. Not that what I was doing before was much good.

I do mind her struggling - she is an elderly dog and shouldn't have to strain and strain to get a little poop out. Sometimes it will take 4-5 minutes to get out one little ball.

 

Was her poop crumbly and powdery? Raw poop will be considerably more firm than kibble poop, but when it crumbles than that is a sign of too much bone. I have found that small dogs seem to have an easier time transitioning, and a lot of them can do well on bone every 4th or 5th meal. My dog was very similar to your Snorkels when I first transitioned. His first meal ever was a chicken wing, but I basically jumped in to feeding him boneless meals right away. He could go 3-4 days without bone and would not have soft stool. Actually...I didn't know any better at the time and was already feeding him beef during the first week or two. He took it very well!

I wouldn't recommend adding the liver either though. I would feed her boneless chicken for another meal or two, until she softens up, especially if you are giving her something like skinless chicken breast...very lean/no fat. If this doesn't work, you can also try a little extra fat...like a chicken wing with some (or even all) skin and fat attached. Some dogs have no trouble transitioning. Constipation is better than the alternative :biggrin:

 

Ok - not sure about the powdery thing since I am relying on hubby's description. I'll look at it when I get home.

He had already fed her this morning when he called me, so now she's had two meals with bones in it. I'll take her off the bones completely for a few meals. And I'll make sure the chicken has alot of fat included.

Not sure I could get through this without all of you helping me.

 

Raw poops are a lot different than kibble poops, they should be firm...but not hard/crumbly. I'd ease up on the bone and just add more meat.

I'm almost positive the straining is too much bone in combination with the chicken neck incident. She could be one of those dogs like mentioned above that does fine with several boneless meals in a row.

 

She's not truly constipated if she's passing stool. Like others have said raw stool is hard, almost like rocks compared to kibble poo. I'd add in more muscle meat to her meals OR alternate between boneless and bone inclusive meals. Keep having patience with her, it's all a matter of finding out what best suits your dog.

 

Sorry should have seen the other posts about the 4 teeth and put them with your little girl :doh:

I am sure you will have mentioned this in one of your other posts but what teeth does she have left?

If I where you I would back off the bone and feed more muscle meat, I would not suggest liver as you don't want to go the other way and have a case of uncontrolled cannon but.

If someone is with her most of the day you could start off with nearly 100 % muscle meat and see how she does, then add in small amounts of bone

I am sure you will find the right balance, and I hope it doesn't take to long for her sake:angel:

 

Chelsy is a small, old dog who was paralyzed and had back surgery at age 3. She also was having a problem with very hard, crumbly poops when we started her on real meat. I started her on boneless chicken that was slightly cooked and she had a real hard time 'going'.

She now eats whole, raw ground chicken quarters and is doing better on that then when she was just on plain, cooked chicken. I do give her extra liver (for her size) and that actually helps her have softer movements. She gets liver that has been cooked slightly so maybe that is why she doesn't get any diarrhea. (None of my dogs have ever had a problem with eating liver.) If I don't cook the liver a little bit it is too slimey for her to pick up by herself and she refuses it. By cooking it a bit, it gets a little harder and she can pick it up and eat it by herself. She also gets canned fish (sardines and tuna) mixed with her chicken sometimes and does really well on those days.

It could be that your dog just digested the whole chicken neck (which is a lot of bone) and that is what caused the constipation. When I get whole chickens, I just chunk the neck in the grinder with the rest of the whole bird and the meat to bone ratio seems to work out fine for her.

We have to be careful with her because she doesn't have a lot of feeling in her back end anymore and falls over a lot. I don't want her to have to struggle with 'poo' too!

 

She has four canines but they don't really work properly because of her overbite - they don't fit top to bottom like canines are supposed to do.

She can't, for instance eat out of a bowl because once something hits the edge her nose gets in the way of her scooping it up. And she can't grab it with her teeth. But I am going to try holding a chicken neck for her and seeing if she can gnaw on it that way. I bet she can do that. I want to keep her teeth clean - right now she is on antibiotics monthly to keep her from getting a mouth infection since she can't undergo cleaning any more because of her heart issues.

Yes, someone is home to watch her. I am going to just her plain meat for a couple of days and see what happens - unfortunately, I don't really have anything to "go back to" as far as fixing her constipation because what I was doing didn't work. I have to make this raw meat thing work for her somehow.

 

Chelsy is a dog after my own heart!

i might just give Snorkels liver - I can't imagine ANYTHING causing her diarrhea. I have never seen diarrhea from her since I got her.

but I will try no bones for at least a day to see what happens. I don't want to go back to the vet over this, because i don't want someone to tell me it's because of the food.

 

Sorry, I missed the post about her teeth too. Hmm...the teeth cleaning might still work even though she can't really gnaw just based on the simple fact that she won't be ingesting all those starches and sugars that are present in kibble. It will take awhile and might need some brushing, but now that she's on raw she shouldn't be getting any additional build up. She just needs to get rid of whatever buildup is staining her teeth. Louis had kibble stains that didn't really go away until 4 months after raw...and he was kibble fed for less than a year. His teeth are finally starting to look squeaky clean now :smile:

One thing you can try later if the muscle meat still gives her hard poo, is to add some salmon oil into her diet a few times a week.

 

It sounds like you little girl is in great hands and that you will find a solution to her to give her a happy comfortable life.

With raw we have so much choice that there will be a solution to the problem weather that be oily fish, eggs, extra faty cut of beef or simply liver ad kidney.

Whatever happens you are on the right track to making it work