Well, if you feed ground meat you are losing so many of the benefits of raw feeding - clean teeth for one, and you will never have to get a dental done on your dog. Cheaper food, mental stimulation, muscle development - all results of feeding raw, and nothing else will do that.

It's not messy. my dogs can eat some bones right out of the bowl - they have been eating in the yard this summer, and in cold weather I have a little throw rug I put down, and it goes into the washer. I was worried about that too - I didn't want rotten food smell all over the house, but I think you actually have to do it to see that no one has much of a problem with it.

Most people here don't feed anything but meat, bones, organs. No cottage cheese, veggies, etc.

You might want to read the Myths of Raw Feeding - in my opinion, it answers all the questions most people have.
The Many Myths of Raw Feeding

Good luck - I hope you can convince your wife to come around.

Edited to add: there's nothing difficult or complicated about feeding raw. For the first couple of weeks, you give them some chicken. then you start adding in some variety, and some organs eventually. Wa-la, you are done.

 

Travel is no biggie. Just bring a cooler, insert baggies of frozen food and ice, and you are good to go. :wink:

Its no more unsanitary than prepping your own food. In fact illness from contaminated kibble is much more common...

He'll learn how to chew properly. You can feed partially frozen or hold it while he eats if he's a gulper too. FYI ground will encourage gulping and has zero dental benefits!

Find a vet and sitter/boarding facility that will support your decision to feed prey model raw would be the best avenue.

I find ground the by far messiest thing to feed. In fact the only time I use bowls is when I feed them ground... Plus the bacteria factor increases exponentially with that kind of processing... Lots more surface area for cooties and how do you know they santize their equipment between each round? Sure they say they do....

It doesn't get much easier than dumping a thawed ziplock baggie of whatever meal onto the ground or into their crates. The whole food is extremely tidy IMO.
I have little processing parties a few times a month where I portion up their meals. Its fun!

Absolutely, I've gotten some great deals at Costco. Especially whole fryers.

You don't need "veggie/olive oi/supplement puree" with pmr.
Only thing you mind need to supplement with is salmon oil if you aren't feeding fish or a lot of grass fed red meat. Thats it.

My two cents? If you are going to do it, do it right. I messed around with dehydrated crap and premades before transitioning to pmr and let me tell you its just not worth it. Both financially and on the canine tummies.

 

She's worried about choking on bones, salmonella to us/Grady/future kids/guests/etc, vacations/business travel and people not wanting to feed raw food, costs and if he visits the vet or something overnight.

Absolutely none of those things on the list are valad concerns. I have been feeding raw to mulitple dogs for 9 years and believe me none of those things are anything to worry about. Dogs have been eating bones for millions of years. They know how to do it and they are well equipped for the task. Salmonella nor any other germ is a problem for the dog or you or anyone in your house. No one in my house nor any visitors have had salmonella and believe me, I am not a clean fanatic. Usually a damp paper towel is what I clean with. My dogs lick my face frequently and I never consider raw feeding to be a problem. Vacations shouldn't be a problem. Simply take an ice chest with the dog's food iced down on the trip. If you fly somewhere and an ice chest is a problem, you can always go with dehydrated raw. I prefer the ice chest but dehydrated for short periods of times isn't a big problem. I'm sure the vet will feed him whatever you want him to. Personally I won't leave my dog at the vet overnight unless there is someone there with him. My vet doesn't have anyone that stays overnight so I never leave my dog.

She also said this needs to stay in his bowl, because she does not want to have to sanitize the entire kitchen after every meal. I understand all of those concerns, but I don't know if they are necessarily reasons to immediately write-off this diet for Grady.

She will get over that sanatizing stuff pretty quickly. Most all newbies feel the way your wife does but soon find out it's just not a problem. Most dogs clean their own mess. My dogs leave their eating area cleaner than it was before they ate there. My dog's eating area is the cleanest part of the house and I never clean it.

The problem with my research so far, too many diet variations and it is hard to get an exact DO THIS for my wife (and me) to understand. It seems like most people here do meat, bones and organs plus whole eggs, but I have also seen cottage cheese, olive oil, veggies, yogurt ... I have read about people doing a cottage cheese morning meal with veggies or whatever, with meat/organs at night and bones for a treat periodically.

Yes, there are many ways to feed a dog a raw diet. I have done years of research and talked to experts. I have fed my dogs raw for 9 years. The ONLY things they need in their diet is raw meat, bones, and organs. Mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. All three of those things are necessary and can't be eliminated. Raw eggs are good for your dogs and many people give salmon oil or fish body oil if they don't feed fish. These are for Omega 3 fatty acids. Personally I feed my dogs fish at least once a week. Absolutely nothing else is needed nor desired in the diet. Plant matter is not needed at all. My dogs haven't had plant matter in 9 years. Their bodies were not designed to eat, digest, nor extract nutrients from plants. Our dogs are carnivores. Carnivores eat the meat, bones, and organs of any animal they can catch and kill. Carnivores do not eat fruits nor veggies. Dairy stuff is not good for dogs either. No milk. No yogurt. No cottage cheese.

Possible Solution: For her convenience, is it possible to have meals of "easier, less messy things" like cottage cheese and ground up meat.

Don't think about cottage cheese and dogs in the same thought. They don't go together. I feed ground meat when it's so cheap I can't pass it up and that is very rare. Dogs have their own grinders built in and don't need humans to grind their meat for them. Ground meat should be rare item to feed.

I think she is alright with the raw food, like ground meat, but she does not like the idea of chicken necks, turkey necks, etc. on a daily basis as the main food source. I think once she sees how easy it is, how safe and how much he likes it, she will loosen up and not mind it.

Once she sees the pup eating those things and how much they enjoy it, she will learn to love the sound of bones being crunched. We all do.

I want to compromise and feed him raw, without grossing her out and making anybody sick.

Don't compromise. She will quickly adjust to what she now sees as the "ick" factor. It will disappear quickly. Trust me, no one, not you, not your wife, not any future children, not any visitors to your house will get sick because your dog eats a raw diet. Many of our members have small children and don't spend a moment worrying about their health because of the dog's diet.

I would rather go at this 95%, then have him eat kibble.

Don't give up so easy. :smile:

Would he need bones every day if he got an egg and/or cottage cheese (calcium)?

Didn't I just say forget cottage cheese for the dog. He doesn't need bones everyday anyway. He doesn't need anything every day. Once he is an adult, he doesn't even need to eat every day. I know raw feeders who only feed their dog every 2 or 3 days. They feed them huge meals but only every 2 or 3 days.

What kind of compromises can I make to ease her initial doubts against without scrapping the whole RF diet or hurting the dog nutritionally?

Forgetr compromise. She's not going to leave. Once she watches a few meals being eaten she will be fully on board. :smile:

Evryone may frown on compromise to the diet but to that I say - I like being married usually.

I've been married and I've been not married and frankly, there really isn't that much difference. Each has is pluses and minuses. ... hehe ... but seriously, I haven't heard of a spouse that didn't come around pretty quickly and become raw feeding lovers just as we are. :biggrin:

It is really easy to do. Very little more trouble than feeding garbage artificial food most people call kibble. Once you get into it, it is cheaper than feeding a high grade kibble. It will take you a few months to learn how to shop for a get the cheapest prices. It will also take you about a month to work out a good routine to make everything easy. Once you get both of those worked out you will be happier and your dog will be happier and healthier.

 

No, you can't put some ground beef in your dog's bowl and call it dinner. Sure, it's quick and easy, but that is not a raw diet and that alone will not suffice for any dog.

You do not want to do 5% kibble and 95% raw. Do it 100%, and you will be amazed. Once they detox out of the kibble, they turn into something else, I swear. It's awesome. A PMR diet- what most people here feed- consists of whole, raw organs, muscle meat, and bones- from a variety of sources. They do not need fruit, vegetable, or grain supplements. Some people give fish oil to help with coats, but it is not required. Your dog was meant to chomp through bones and rip the meat off. They LOVE it.

Most vets and boarding kennels that I've asked are willing to feed your dog raw while you're gone.

It shouldn't really "gross her out", either...it isn't like you have to order live animals and slaughter them in the kitchen. The only truly messy part, I've noticed, are the organs, and even that isn't bad (and I'm a 20-year-old girl who has known most of what I'm feeding my dog as pets years ago). I'm guessing you have kids, and I'm guessing that you want to give those kids the best possible nutrition, even if it is something you don't like yourself. It's the same with a dog. Kibble is not the best nutrition. Raw meat, plain and simple, is the most nutritious diet you can offer your dog. It may not be easier, but many of the best things don't fall out of the sky and into your lap...or so I've found, LOL.

A lot of the people on here have been feeding their dogs raw for YEARS, and I've never read stories about them contracting any salmonella, etc. Make your dog eat on a rug, outdoors, in the garage, in his crate, or in the bathtub, and the clean-up will be easier than what it is after your family eats dinner. My boy eats on a paper plate in the kitchen. Plate gets tossed, spritz of 409 to the floor if I know he went off the plate, one paper towel wipe and I'm done. When it's nice outside, he eats outside and then there's NO clean-up.

Go to preymodelraw.com and then "How to Get Started"...it's been my PMR Bible since I started my chihuahua on it a few months ago.

Good luck with your new dog! That particular breed is adorable, LOL.

 

Thank you for all of your responses. I will review all that info with her and hopefully Grady will be fed raw starting September 3rd.

Two additional questions she asked: Will it make them more aggressive with kids or anyone near their food? Obviously we are calling this PMR so it could happen. My last dog, I stuck my fingers and hands in her mouth when she ate as a puppy and pulled her away from her food so she understood not to get angry. If she ever made noise she lost her food for a few minutes. It worked well, she was a great dog. I will just stick my hands on raw food and make it work.

More importantly, do your dogs go crazy when you cook for your family? I really don't want the dog to beg because my food starts raw too. I find begging annoying and it can be controlled when you feed kibble or canned. I am a huge meat eater and I grill/cook 6-8 lbs of chicken breast a week - don't want the dog to beg. The cat freaking out when we cook fish is enough for me.

One more: instead of asking friends to serve my dogs raw meat when I am away, could a dog switch to cooked meat for a week or something? Dehydrated may work here too.

 

Two additional questions she asked: Will it make them more aggressive with kids or anyone near their food? Obviously we are calling this PMR so it could happen. My last dog, I stuck my fingers and hands in her mouth when she ate as a puppy and pulled her away from her food so she understood not to get angry. If she ever made noise she lost her food for a few minutes. It worked well, she was a great dog. I will just stick my hands on raw food and make it work.

No matter what you feed, stop aggravating your dog while he's eating. I was a professional dog trainer for many years and saw many cases where people created food aggressive dogs by doing exactly what you did with the other dog. You got lucky with him. Give the dog his food and leave him alone. Don't pet him, rub him or anything. Just let him eat in peace and he wll be fine.

More importantly, do your dogs go crazy when you cook for your family?

If you feed them little tidbits of what you are cooking, then heck yes he will beg. Don't feed him while cooking and don't feed him from the table and he won't beg. I always feed leftovers from the kitchen sink after I finish eating. Dogs don't bother me ... they lay on the floor in the room where I'm eating until I get up with plate in hand and start walking to the sink. THEN they get all excited. I can leave the room with my food on a table and they won't bother it. But when I head for the sink, you better stand back, they will run over you. :smile:

One more: instead of asking friends to serve my dogs raw meat when I am away, could a dog switch to cooked meat for a week or something? Dehydrated may work here too.

Don't worry about friends, once they see your dog eating raw for a couple of meals, they will have no problems with it. You are spending time worrying about problems that will probably never happen. This is one of those.

 

It's not called prey model because dogs get aggressive.. it's called prey model because you are envisioning an animal and then feeding it- not all at once, not every part of the animal- but the correct proportions of meat, bone and organ.

 

And no, a dog will not get food aggressive because of raw. A dog already prone to FA might be a bit worse with a raw bone than with kibble because it is better tasting, ie a higher value item. I don't find my dogs beg for meat any more than they beg for anything else, and it can be trained out of them. :biggrin1:

 

I have only had one food aggressive dog and he ate kibble. My dogs are not only NOT food aggressive, but they will actually lick meat off the same plate together. They actually beg less then my kibble fed dogs did, I think because they figure their food is better then mine!

The only time they actually are interested in what I'm doing in the kitchen is when I get a big amount of meat in and start dividing it up. Even then they lay outside the kitchen and just watch me occasionally to see if I'll toss something their way. Begging is usually a matter of training. We just have never let our dogs beg so they don't do it.

Cleaning......Chelsy eats off the floor a lot and I just use a clorox wipe on her spot if it needs it. Usually Shade polishes it so clean that I can't even find where Chelsy ate. My husband started out really against raw food and now he doesn't have any problem with it (and he's a germaphobe). He doesn't actually watch when I cut the food up and portion it out for the freezer, but he has no problem with them eating it.

Hopefully your wife will come around. You can always have her read thru this forum and see what it is like.

 

If you train your dog correctly, he won't beg no matter what you are cooking. If you don't, he will beg no matter what you are feeding him. Begging is not an issue of diet, but an issue of manners.

Raw meat won't make a dog aggressive - that's another old wives tale. I think in some rare cases, it will make a dog who has a certain temperament a little more food aggressive. But if you train your dog properly from puppyhood that you are the owner of the food, that's not even an issue.

I think you are certainly on the right track, and asking all the right questions. If you read something scary on the internet, you should bring it here, as most of that stuff is easily debunked - it is never based on anything in reality.

 

I just wanted to say that it's neat that you're getting a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier, I can't wait to see pics! I'm fostering one now and she's a lot of fun . Calmer than most terriers but still high-energy. She's been getting RMBs a few times a week and loves them (and I love them because they keep her occupied--she's a teething puppy, ha!).

 

My retired ex racing greyhound has been raw fed since April, before that he was on kibble (we got him in Feb). He loves it and is really thriving, coat now shiny, bald patches growing hair, weight has increased but all muscle. My dog eats before us at 5-5.30pm and we don't eat until 7pm so by then he's had his fill and just goes and lies down (greyhounds spend most of their time horizontal anyway). If it does become a problem of begging dog just shut it in another room, easy. I was worried about that too, but luckily for us he disappears all by himself. My dog eats chicken carcasses outside and although it's winter here there are the odd flies so I just hose down or spray the area with neat white vinegar. His main food area is not one of our living rooms and I just wipe down with paper towel if need be and do the vinegar thing if need be. I am not paranoid about germs and I have kids. I prepare raw meat for the family and same hygiene methods used, wash utensils and hands in hot soapy water - done! I don't use antibacterial sprays or anything like that but I am a bit of a greenie. When you see your dog really getting into and enjoying their nosh, you will feel warm inside. My dog used to inhale his kibble and it was all gone very very quickly, no chewing or effort on his part. There is a big difference. I fully understand your wife's reluctance, but I am sure when she gets used to it and reads all our stories/advice she may well be a convert! Good Luck.

 

Everyone has given you GREAT advice!:smile:

As Caty M said, it is called Prey Model Raw because it is "Modeled after Prey that carnivores naturally eat and it is Raw!":wink:

As long as the dog is TRAINED it should not be FA, but if it where to be then it would be just as FA with kibble as with PMR.

Also you are just as prone, if not more so because of less precautions taken, to getting salmonella from a kibble/can fed dog as you are from a raw fed dog!:wink:

Also, another option for feeding that way he doesnt move the food all over is in his crate and/or an x-pen. I feed both my younger dogs in their crates 5 days a week. By time I get home their crates are TOTALLY clean!:wink:

 

what a wonderful dog you're getting...

i had to stand my ground with my honey who was totally against raw...and now he picks up cases of venison and six way cut goats for me.

thing is....i am immunocompromised and i'm not only still here...i no longer sanitise the kitchen every time i feed the dogs...

kibble has salmonella in it....and all kids have to eat their pound of dirt...

you might want to read this from orijen, a fine kibble maker that apparently wrote a paper in 1998 that supports raw feeding....and only raw meat. bones. and organs. which is all you will need.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/documents/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf

let your wife read this. knowledge is power....

that crunch that dogs make as they ingest bones becomes addictive. i love that sound now where before it made me cry....i was so scared i was killing my dogs...

not only wasn't i killing my dogs...i swear my old girl is still here because i finally switched her to raw.

that you're getting a puppy and starting the wheaten off with species appropriate feeding....gives you puppy the best chance at a healthy life.

protein. bones. organ. no veggies, no dairy....it's a pretty simple diet...just feed variety. bones for calcium and firm stools. organs for vitamins.

 

that crunch that dogs make as they ingest bones becomes addictive. i love that sound now where before it made me cry....i was so scared i was killing my dogs...

not only wasn't i killing my dogs...i swear my old girl is still here because i finally switched her to raw.

I think you hit the nail on the head - that barrier is really, really hard to get across because of what has been in our heads for so many years. I can look back now and think how silly I was being, but at the time I was very afraid they would eat a bone, and then keel over and die with a perforated intestine. It was like a miracle when they didn't. Even though you believe in your head what raw feeders are telling you, you have to see it for yourself to REALLY believe it.

 

One point that I'm not sure has been brought up... I'm pretty sure there's more bacteria in ground meat than in cuts. There is also a lot less taurine in it.. So feeding ground is obviously less than ideal.

My mom runs an in-home daycare. We haven't had any problems in the 5 months I've been feeding raw. Wallaby eats his meals in the kitchen, outside in the same yard the kids play in, or on his mat. The kitchen floor gets mopped once a week [and he cleans up after himself], and I throw his mat in the wash and let it dry in the sun a couple of times a month.

How much bone he will need will depend on the dog. Some people say small dogs need less bone. But in the first month or so he will need bones every day.

Sometimes if Wallaby has a bone-in meal and it's raining outside or something, I have him eat it in the bath tub and then just spray it out after he's done. Since you're getting a small dog this could be a very easy solution for you.

On aggression: Wallaby is amazing with kids, and he's been on raw since I've had him. Eating raw does not make a dog "bloodthirsty", aggressive or otherwise "wild"/untamed.

 

Sometimes if Wallaby has a bone-in meal and it's raining outside or something, I have him eat it in the bath tub and then just spray it out after he's done. Since you're getting a small dog this could be a very easy solution for you.

can you take a pic the next time he eats in the tub. i have GOT to see that...

 

I'm new to raw feeding... and I can honestly say that getting a piece of chicken out and handing it to the dog out in the back yard or in her kennel is a heck of a lot easier than dishing up a bowl of kibble.

If you have a yard, outside is a great option for feeding and I haven't noticed any increase of ants or flies... Roscoe cleans up really well. As for begging/food aggression and the like... these are things that if you train, you can avoid. Roscoe is great around my kiddo and our smaller animals. She's great around babies and strangers and other dogs and trees and furniture...and and and... Feeding her raw has only improved her. Her teeth are becoming white and shiny again, her coat is beautiful, her breath smells fresh, SHE just smells and looks better.

Anyway... definitely communicate with your wife. Definitely come here and read together. Going raw is really so much simpler than it seems. There's a wealth of information here and we love to help.

Chomp chomp!

 

HI,
It's good you are asking questions. I have 6 dogs being fed raw and a litter of puppies - NO ONE ever begs for our food. That is just training.

1 - Whole food is easier and neater to eat. Necks, roast, chicken quarters, etc. Ground is a mess.
2 - Since I have so many dogs some eat outside on the porch or grass and some eat in crates. Once in a blue moon I hose out the crates.
3 - Meat, bone and organ - eggs are baby chicks. That is all they need - don't make yourself crazy with fruits and veg, cottage cheese, yogurt and stuff they don't need and can't process.
4 - Vacation - meat frozen solid packed into a cooler and fed as it thaws.
5 - Hotel/Motel - feed on the porch, balcony or bathroom. You can put down a cheap plastic tablecoth and wipe that down when they are down.
6 - Flying - I just buy some meat when I get where I am going - no biggie.
7 - Boarding - pack each day's meal in a small container with the day and tell the sitter, kennel, etc to fedd it to your dog. You may be asked to sign a waiver - but so what?
8 - An aggressive dog is aggressive no matter what they are fed. Mine have shown a remarkable calmness since switching to raw. The pups raised on raw are more contented and less easily agitated. Maybe it is all the chewing they have to do. LOL
9 - I have two kids, babysit for friends and have people over all the time. I hate to clean but love to cook. No one has ever gotten ill.
10 - The best perks of all are happy, healthy, shiny, no doggie smell, clean white teeth, no doggy breath, teeny tiny poops you don't even pick up because they turn to dust in a few days, watching them eat, finding good meat sales, no allergies, the vet only for a check up and maybe to gloat, knowing exactly what your dog is eating, and doing the best possible for a beloved family member.

 

GREAT post!:biggrin:

Also a crate in the motel is an option if you train them to eat in their crate any ways!:happy: