Nope, the only evidence I need is having a healthy dog. I think most people do not pay attention to small details(or not so small) when it comes to dogs health, so something like dull coats, heavy shedding, weight gain, eye/ear infections, hot spots and later more chronic diseases that come with age, are dismissed because most people think its normal.
When I was growing up, I honestly never paid attention to those things, I didnt know anything about nutrition and Pedigree was considered a premium food, one thing I remember is that most dogs had that typical icky dog smell.

Unless theres a life-long study that compares the effects of premium vs. grocery store brand food, I dont trust their vet approved sources because we all know where the funding comes from.

 

Remember one thing back in the day, things were a lot cheaper to produce, they didn't use all the preservatives they do now and there probably were decent ingredients in those foods back then. It all comes down to the bottom line, how much money can they make, so over time, more filler less meat and more preservatives for longer shelf life.

The top of the line foods today I'll compare with more of the organic industry, they just want to be really careful about what is going into their product as they have come to realize that like humans, dogs are more a part of the family and people will/do spend billions of dollars a year on them.

 

Interesting point...I'd add this...if you go back about 70-80 years, I don't believe Dog Food even existed. Seriously, I think Dog Food as a kibble is relatively new.

 

There are always the exceptions to every rule. When I grew up in the 60's, our lab died at age 7, and all our other dogs died at about the same ages. Dogs lived in the yard and took their chances and whatever ones weren't hit by cars, got dog chow, had puppies, and died young. Ours were lucky in that we spayed them. Even my dogs in the 80's and 90's died at ages 12, 10, 9, and 8 from various cancers and diseases ( and I worked for vets). The only one I had that lived to 16 was a grumpy Lhasa Apso and they are just naturally long lived.

The same can be said for people. My Grandma lived to be 92 eating all German sausages, beer, pork, potatoes, pastries and only a rare vegetable. I'm not sure that it means I should follow her footsteps and eat that way my whole life (although it would be a lot more fun!) I really think you need to look at a huge amount of numbers and long term survival rates, plus the quality of life to get any kind of acurate statistics. Otherwise we can all eat beer and sausage and feed dog chow (don't worry, be happy! )

 

And I believe that dogs were healthier back then...at least nutritionally wise. Medical advancements have really pushed the average life spans of domesticated animals to further and further limits.

 

While the "advancements" in food have restricted it. :frown:

 

It's true that dogs HAVE survived on commercial pet food for many many years. I suppose it would be easy to second guess that $70 bag of Orijen for that $18 bag of Pedigree.

What it comes down to for me is: dogs are carnivores, and we know that as a fact... so to me, feeding a diet as close to possible to that would be ideal. The premium foods ARE better without a doubt because they contain more meat for those carnivores.
They also (usually) tend to contain less common allergens, and undigestable ingredients so they're undoubtedly better.

Dogs CAN survive on cheap food. I CAN survive on tv dinners and Taco Bell, but I'm probably not going to reach optimum health that way. To me, giving them something healthier, if it's within my means, makes me sleep better at night.

 

Curious about your stance....seriously....

You guys must admit that Deboned Walleye, Lake Whitefish, Fruits, Vegetables, Free Range Chicken.....the ingredients of Orijen and Acana....are all excellent for Dogs.......

I'm assuming those of you feeding real/raw food must believe that the beauty of all of the above ingredients are completely destroyed or negated during the processing of the food?

Is it safe to assume that this is your stance?

 

Well, aside from fruits and veggies, yes, those would be good things for dogs.
It's true that MOST of the nutritional content is probably destroyed, but not all of it. In my mind, if something is going to be downgraded, I'd want to start with it as good as possible.

This is a poor example, but it made sense in my mind.
On a scale from one to ten, if you placed nutritional value of, say, venison at a 10 prior to processing, then all the processing might devalue it to, say, a 6.
If you did the same with an ingredient like Corn, it would start at maybe a 3 and be devalued to 1 or 0 by the end.
So, by starting at a higher quality, you'd still end at a higher quality.

I know, terrible example, I had no idea how to put it in writing from my head.

 

Chowder,

Thats funny....I was seeing similar poops in my yard....dried up and disintegrated to nothing when I moved it around.

I'll say this...its a clever and logical stance to believe that cooking destroys much of the nutrients in food. It certainly sounds fair. I'm just not sure whether or not its true.

 

It holds true for humans, there is plenty of research done on that. I would assume that if nutrients are killed in the cooking/processing of food for humans it would be the same for dogs. Here are a few articles:

https://sedonalabspro.com/information/health_matters/Enzymes.pdf

ftp://166.111.30.161/incoming/new_b...tters/Enzymes.pdfod Science/Nutrition Handbook for Food Processors/36659_14.pdf

ETA: Some nutrients are not destroyed by cooking or processing, and others are even amplified by *light* cooking. Although, in no way do I see the rendering, cooking/extruding and further processing of dog food is related to this in any way. What dog food goes through from the bare ingredients to the final product can be compared to "light cooking."

 

Here is an interesting article on the changes vegies go thru when humans cook them and how some nutrients are increased when you cook them. It's a little off topic but I thought it was a really interesting since I decided to research Raw Food for humans for health reasons ( and then totally vetoed the idea!!!).

Fact or Fiction: Raw veggies are healthier than cooked ones: Scientific American

Tomatoes actually improve after cooking for 30 minutes! But I'll still enjoy a good fresh tomato sandwich once my garden comes in (without cooking it) !

 

If all the nutrients were destroyed or negated, dogs wouldn't survive on kibble. The fact that dogs CAN survive on kibble means that there is available nutrition to them. BUT the fact that so much of kibble goes in one end and right back out the other means that A LOT of what goes into kibble is utterly useless to a dog.[/QUOTE]

I have seen ALOT of Kibble go in one end and come out the other in what can only be described as a "Cow Pie" That was when Khan was only a few months old and barely tipped the scales at 50lbs!! He has just turned 8 months and he is pushing 100lbs and his poop is "blue ribbon, award winning!!"
That is only because he no longer eats kibble, and is eating Real Food.

 

I think all us raw feeders can agree we love the size of our dogs poo!:biggrin: But as much as we love our dogs it is truly great to know that there are real choices out there now, that didn't use to be there before.
Because we have companies like Natura, Champion and Petcurean we have some really nice dog foods to chose from and reputable companies to boot. These are choices that people didn't have 15 yrs ago, so Wohoo!!

 

Well, my friend brought her dogs to stay with me, and right now, all she can afford is Pedigree and Purina.

Maybe you she can at least upgrade to something like Healthwise ($33 for 35 lbs), Diamond Naturals ($35 for 40 lbs) or 4Health from tractor supply-($34 for 35 lbs) just to name a few.

 

Great suggestion, Uno.

I don't get why people won't do this type of switch. Most will never go from Purina to Orijen. I get that...certainly, finances are a fact of life. And I cannot honestly say that Orijen would save a person money. Not even Champion's "budget" line of Acana would do that.

But, BUT, going to Healthwise....or any decent food around $1/lb. would truly SAVE a person money. Heck, Healthwise is $32 for 35 lbs. right now. That is a no brainer for someone feeding grocery store garbage. I honestly bet they would save money doing this.

 

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:

 

I second the Sushi posting! In fact Sushi, minus the rice, called Sashimi, is my favorite food! Slices of raw fish..nothing else...absolute favorite food. :biggrin:

My parents are from Germany and they eat a lot of meat over there, my Mom used to feed us Tartar, when we were kids, though I never liked it. Also, pickled Herring is very popular, I'm neither over whelmed nor under whelmed with pickled Herring, lol.

My dogs do love raw meat, of course they love it cooked, too.

 

I second the Sushi posting! In fact Sushi, minus the rice, called Sashimi, is my favorite food! Slices of raw fish..nothing else...absolute favorite food. :biggrin:

:

Push to ban trade in endangered bluefin tuna | Environment | The Observer

We no longer buy any tuna or sushi made from tuna. Here is an interesting story about the near extinction of the bluefin tuna due to the sushi industry and the disruption of the food chain that the overfishing of the other tuna varieties will lead to in the rest of the ocean. Like everything else we humans seem to do, we get carried away with something and do it to the extreme!

They apparently are coming up with tuna farms, like salmon and catfish farms, and that may be the answer to the problem. Kind of off topic here, but an intersting article.

 

I'm wondering what sort of "premium" foods this guy looked at to come to this conclusion. Because if he was comparing Beneful to Science Diet (which is considered premium for some weird reason) or Eukanuba, or even Royal Canin, then I can totally understand how he would draw that conclusion.

I was talking to these people about what they feed their cat and they told me "Oh we feed her the grocery store's brand because we compared the ingredients and they're the same as the other really good brands like Cat Chow, Friskies, and Fancy Feast!" *facepalm* It's not hard when that's what you're comparing it to!

 

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:

 

this post reminded me, has anyone seen that wife swap episode of a family that only eats raw meat? They would even put a piece of meat in a jar and let it sit for weeks (if not months), then once its rotten, they'd eat it like delicacy

 

funny....I saw that a couple years ago on some show. Disgusting.

Heard something else recently...a reknowned Dr. from Johns Hopkins was on a show talking about how there is this new sickness similar to anorexia/bolemia where people get SO finicky about what they eat that it causes many health issues. They don't get enough calories and they have a phobia that EVERYTHING needs to be organic this/organic that...and sometimes that isn't even enough.

It had some name, but I forget. My only thought when this Dr. was talking was..."OK, I'll admit there may be a problem there, but I would be willing to wager that the hogs I see in Wal Mart and everywhere around town outnumber them 1,000,000 to 1. Maybe you should prioritize what diseases you try to remedy "