I would HIGHLY suggest a better quality food.

Taste of the Wild, Acana(grain free line,) Orijen and Wellness Core(the fish one #1) being on my top list.
I would, if I were you, also stay away from foods with chicken as an ingredient....all of the dogs that I have had contact with who have had sensitive issues have had issues with foods with chicken in them(even "just" chicken fat!)

 

I have a Bully breed and was the exact same way...extremely picky. I agree with Scarlett...def try Taste of the Wild, Acana - grain free line or Orijen. My Frenchie loved Taste of The Wild - all flavors.

 

Ya, Brody really liked both lines of TotW that we tried him on(he cant have chicken...so just Pacific Stream and Sierra Mountain.) For processed foods Acana(again, no chicken so just Ranchlands and Pacifica) is what he did best on though.

 

Hello and welcome to the forum! We will get your Miss Sadie on a better food, lots of helpful and friendly people here!

 

Both of my dogs loved Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream formula It's reasonably priced here at $40 for a 35 lb bag .

Also, I agree with your vet. Your dog is telling YOU what she will eat but that's not how it is. Without realizing it you are creating a picky eater (and trust me you think its bad now...just wait lol)
Your dog will not starve herself don't worry!
What you need to do is buy the new better quality food, lay it down for her (after transitioning) for ten minutes.
Do you feed in a crate? I find this to make it a lot easier to prevent "grazing"
If she won't touch it for ten minutes, take it away...at her next meal give her the EXACT same bowl again (do not add any food, do not give her fresh kibble)
and just keep doing it. She will not starve don't worry
My Raj was a picky eater when we switched him over from Science Diet. I will never deal with that again lol

 

thanks

Well I went and bought her the fav, Royal Canin, the only thing she will eat, like a fool I did it. I am going to try Taste of the Wild, I have had other dogs I have owned on it and they did fine. Just trying to build her muscle. Bulldogs can grow long and lanky and I hate for her to not grow properly. Thanks to everyone what a wonderful pet website!!!

 

I would find a four or five good quality foods that she likes and rotate between them - a lot of dogs can get bored with the food and stop eating it when they're fed the same thing over and over again.

 

Good luck with that...may cause issue like digestive upset. We tried every brand on the market that was good quality as far as kibble, premade raw and can food that Yogi could eat due to his allergies...didn't work.

Comparing the quality of Royal Canin to any Diamond product is about the silliest thing I have ever heard. Royal Canin has one of the best facilities in the country and some of the best nutritionists anywhere. Every diet goes through extensive testing. There is a reason there is wheat gluten in that food, because it is the most digestible protein known, even more than egg. And BD's have trouble digesting almost anything they eat. The adult formula does not it has a small amount of soy isolate, just like what's in baby formula.

Those diets are simple chicken, rice and oats with some special enhancements for BD's.

I would think that the nutritionists at Royal Canin know what they are doing, not some of the people on here. As for the price, don't buy food in such a small bag!!!!! It costs twice as much per lb.

Go back to RC BD and stay with it. Forget what you hear about TOTW it is junk.

Also I can't think of another breed where rotating foods was so foolish. These dogs can have such issues adjusting. Stick with RC BD and worry about something else.

Some very smart people made that product. Also she is old enough for adult food.

I would like to get some of the people here in the same room with the PHD's at RC so they could see how little they know.

All I'm going to say is, WOW...really wheat gluten...it's horrible even for people. A large majority of dogs have issues with wheat gluten and causes an array of problems. One word...research!

 

Comparing the quality of Royal Canin to any Diamond product is about the silliest thing I have ever heard. Royal Canin has one of the best facilities in the country and some of the best nutritionists anywhere. Every diet goes through extensive testing. There is a reason there is wheat gluten in that food, because it is the most digestible protein known, even more than egg. And BD's have trouble digesting almost anything they eat. The adult formula does not it has a small amount of soy isolate, just like what's in baby formula.

Those diets are simple chicken, rice and oats with some special enhancements for BD's.

I would think that the nutritionists at Royal Canin know what they are doing, not some of the people on here. As for the price, don't buy food in such a small bag!!!!! It costs twice as much per lb.

Go back to RC BD and stay with it. Forget what you hear about TOTW it is junk.

Also I can't think of another breed where rotating foods was so foolish. These dogs can have such issues adjusting. Stick with RC BD and worry about something else.

Some very smart people made that product. Also she is old enough for adult food.

I would like to get some of the people here in the same room with the PHD's at RC so they could see how little they know.

 

Just a question .... Where do you get all your information from, wherever it is, I'd look elsewhere. It appears that you have been led up the garden path

 

I used to work at Petco and got to talk to food reps all the time. I talked to Nutro reps who told me they wouldn't even feed that to their own dogs! I have talked to Nature's Recipe reps who didn't even know the ingredients in the food they were hawking. LOL. I had a Royal Canin rep in and boy did I lay into that guy. My store manager told me this guy really knew his stuff and so I just had to ask him questions. I asked him why their food was so expensive.

The guy said (and I can't even MAKE this stuff up!) that the cost went into the high grade of corn they used.


Yeah.

So I asked why they didn't add more animal protein and he said because of cost. So then I asked why they would put such expensive corn in their food instead of animal protein. He never gave me a direct answer. Probably because he didn't know.

I find wheat gluten to be biologically inappropriate for a dog.

I don't own a bulldog. I do have a mastiff and of my three dogs he has the most digestive issues. Certain foods give him horrible gas, which is my cue to not feed them. I would try a couple new foods and if she eats them and they don't give her gas, then feed that. I would try to find at least two or three foods she can tolerate to do a rotation. I have heard too many times of people's dogs being fed only one food and developing an allergy to something in the food (usually a grain or the animal protein). And then, many times the dog is older and more difficult to transition to another food.

So build the iron gut early. My mom has a schnauzer that can't eat anything other than one kind of food without getting really sick. He is older now and in bad shape. I feel had she rotated early in his life (and picked better foods) he would be like my dogs, able to handle anything (except the foods that give Dozer rancid gas of course).

Good luck, let us know how it goes. There are many great kibble choices out there. Fromms, Evangers, Taste of the Wild (someone here said it wasn't good but I have fed it with no problems?) Wellness, Holistic Selects, Solid Gold....it really boils down to what works for your dog.

Some of us here feed raw too. Always an option.

And....pics? lol

 

I'm irritated with the post promoting Royal Canin, I was going to post about it, but I will just stick with this: IMO RC is GARBAGE, FLAT OUT OVER PRICED TRASH. Look into TOTW and the Wellness Core fish blend, grain free is going to be your friend.

 

Unfortunately now we've got the OP looking at completely contradicting advice...But OP, please notice that there is one post in particular that just doesn't fit, westminsterthree is a troll, just here insulting everyone and their knowledge of canine nutrition, he/she claims to know all kinds of experts but has zero references, and cannot be trusted, just some backround info, he/she has been here under several names, several times, and has been banned from the site, but continues to join under different names to come back and annoy everyone.

Royal Canin is most definitely NOT a superior food to TOTW or some others that have been listed here, and it is not ridiculous to make that comparison. If you continue reading on these forums, or even just doing research elsewhere, you will find what is important to look for in a food, and Royal Canin is really just overpriced garbage (sorry to be so harsh). Be careful when taking advice from the vet aswell, they usually recommend Science Diet or some type of prescription diet, which is not good for dogs. Take the recommendations from others in this thread. I also suggest reading the RAW feeding forum...I don't feed RAW, though I want to (I haven't been able to find bulk meat for a decent price to feed 2 large/giant breed dogs), anyway, by reading the RAW section, you will learn a lot about canine nutrition, and from there you can read more on the dry food section and figure out what exactly to look for in a kibble/processed diet, you'll quickly find that Royal Canin is not what you'll want for your pet carnivore

Good luck!

 

I agree, not only RC it's overpriced but it's contradicting themselfes, they brag so mush about having scientiest making food especific for the needs of X breed but they have different formulas depending were you are located, the latin american versions of the foods have unmentioned meats, fats and protein and it's more expensive than in the us :tape2:

Chicken meal, rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, rice flour, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), natural chicken flavor, brown rice, wheat gluten meal, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), sodium silico aluminate, dried brewers yeast, potassium chloride, fructo-oligosaccharides, soya oil, sodium tripolyphosphate, taurine, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), salt, dried egg product, vitamins (DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B5), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement), DL-methionine, choline chloride, proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), marigold extract (tagetes erecta L), rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E) and citric acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 29.0%, Crude Fat (min.) 18.5%, Crude Fiber (max.) 3.4%, Moisture (max.) 10.0%.

Latin american version:

 

I agree with RC being absolute cr*p, try TOTW, it is a far higher quality food

 

So in that latin america bag they have 1) "dehydrated poultry meat" so it's probably a mash of scraps from all of the leftover processing, 2) "maize flour" so it's not even corn meal, just flour? 3) "hydrolysed animal proteins" which after my research is just carcasses of animals treated with chemicals to break them down into amino acids. . . 4) "minerals" what minerals? And how much? 5) "yeasts" really? Just yeasts? What kind?

That is horrible!

Hydrolyzed Animal Protein products, buy Hydrolyzed Animal Protein products from alibaba.com

 

Neat! good info arty:

i didn't knew about the hydrolysed , I was smelling something fishy... what it's sad is that they are advertizing the hrydro stuff in magazines as a "scientist response to prevent and cure allergies in dogs and cats, because meats are the main source of allergies, so this way they can digest the meat without problems" :crazy:

Here's the us version of the anti allergy food http://products.royalcanin.us/media/125118/102b product guide_hypo_hydrolyzed_121410.pdf

 

food

So I went with the Taste of the Wild, she looks at it, I mixed the rest fo the RC in it. Better for her. How do I get these pics on here, mine won't work, thanks everyone for caring about her food so much!

 

No. "Biologically appropriate" are two words I put together to make you understand. Every animal needs protein. But you don't give fish to a cow. It wouldn't be....say it with me now....Bio~LOGICALLY appropriate. Dogs should get meat, not corn. Sure they can survive with heavily corned/wheated food but its not appropriate.

 

Are you familiar with Asian Dingos? There is one species of Dingo that lives in two places, one is Australia and one is an island in the Pacific Ocean. The Dingos are the same exact animal but the ones on the island eat mostly rice and fruit. So what is biologically appropriate?

 

I don't get why you would feed a dog wheat gluten I mean, just saying it in my head makes me go...huh?

 

Okay, let me help explain it;
wheat gluten is a protein, protein is made up of amino acids.

Think of a string of pearls, with each pearl representing an amino acid. The identity of the protein depends on the arrangement of the amino acids. The amino acids coming out of vegetable protein sources are identical to the amino acids coming out of meat protein sources, they are different because of the arrangement and proportions. Wheat gluten is 99% digestible. Corn gluten is almost 95% digestible. Chicken protein is about 90% digestible. Lamb is about 84% digestible. So, by providing wheat and corn gluten, you are providing ultra highly digestible sources of amino acids, and decreasing the amount of undigested protein that makes it to the colon, which is a) harder on the digestive tract, b) can lead to diarrhea, flatulence, and stench, and c) a waste.

When you are providing the protein requirements of an animal, there are two things to consider; 1) how much protein overall does the animal need, 2) how much of specific amino acids does the animal need. The Bulldog diet addresses these needs using a combination of proteins containing complimentary amino acid profiles so that it not only meets the overall needs of the dog, but actually addresses the individual amino acid needs of the dog as well. Do you think TOTW is that specific?

 

Let the 2 feed their dogs gluten. The OP is on TOTW...so win.

As for the photo thing... its a little tricky. Try the insert image button, if your photo is too big just resize in paint.

 

To be honest...only responded in concern of someone reading their statements and believing them to be true/fact.

Thank You, Natalie - Danemama!

 

Love that french bulldog! So far I am mixing the two foods so not to cause stomach upset and she seems fine. Just as lazy as she was, lol.

 

Umm, just a note. but Pandas are almost exclusive plant eaters but because of their physiology their diet is affecting them negatively. A panda must eat a huge amount of food to sustain itself because the majority of it is passed as waste. Some believe that its diet may be one of the reasons for its low reproductive rate and the fact that mothers generally abandon one cub from each twin birth.

 

This is basically a waste of time and has gotten to a point where it's best to agree to disagree.

Point blank...processed food is processed food which is BAD for any pet. You may like McDonald's...doesn't mean it's healthy for you.


ETA: Outta here on that note...usually do not partake in these endless post. They're basically a merry go round.

 

I know everyone done here...but I enjoy the controversy sometimes, I'm always trying to learn more and more, there was in fact some helpful information amongst all the bull-****** in this thread, so thank you all ...

I just found out that my (dog) trainer sells RAW meat, pre-packaged for dogs WHOLESALE!!! ...and when my boyfriend realized that the trainer does this "weird RAW stuff" too, he was more open to the idea than he was when he thought it was just one of my crazy ideas ...

So of coarse I'm still trying to continue learning and educating myself (through these forums, my dog trainer, and my new-found vet who supports RAW feeding!!! YAY!!!)

Sorry, had to share that, this just happens to be the thread I was watching today

 

Some food for thought

So I see everyone is leaving, but I just had to say my little tidbits to get some of you thinking
I do not know why everyone likes TOTW, the ingredient deck from an animal nutritionist point of view is crap! I know people may disagree with me, but hear me out. Potato can be listed in that diet 3 to 4 times, making potato really the main ingredient. What makes potato better than grains? Nothing! Potato is a more complex starch and is very hard on the digestive tract for any monogastric. Not to mention the toxicity issue with potatoes, look up glycoalkaloids! Pretty scary! When you compare it to grains on vitamin, mineral and amino acid quality it is crap, hence why they need to add so much more in order to meet the needs, as well fish oil and meal (which they add ocean fish - this is basically catch of the day! every bag can have a different nutritional profile, not to mention what is the mercury level with these ocean fish? Coming from a nutrition and toxicology background this worries me!) this is in order to get the omegas! I know many diets push omega 3 and 6 makes the coat shiny. But how much does your dog shed? Really shedding should only occur two times a year, anything in between look at the vitamin and mineral content is it truly meeting their needs? As well, look up probiotics and there efficiency in a kibble, there is TONS of research from universities who are not funded by anyone that show they do not work! a waste of money for the consumer. If you want probiotics go to your vet and ask them about it. Ones sold in pet stores are crap too! If you have ever been on antibiotics too long you will have found that you needed to go to your pharmacy to get probiotics and you need to keep them in your fridge. This is what keeps them viable - same concept with the pill and kibble form! Also, do any of you understand extruding? If you do, now think about the veggies and fruits going into these diets. For those of you who don’t, basically high heat (steam) for over an hour - even raw food has had heat added! When you boil carrots you lose 50% of the nutrients in just 10 minutes. What do you think happens now to these fruits and veggies when they are being extruded? You lose everything good! All you get is fibre and sugar. If pet companies had to list carb fractions and more specifically sugar, I think many people would reconsider what they would feed. I see many dogs who after eating this high sugar diets go through what we would say is a sugar high, then crash. Not good!

Next for biologically appropriate, what is appropriate for a bully? Are we really ignorant enough to believe that over 5000 years of selective breeding we still believe that they require the same as a wolf? Please tell me we are not. We see in livestock every day that our selective breeding has changed what they require, and it doesn’t just mean factory farmed ones either. So when looking at a bull dog versus a wolf you can see that in order to meet their genetic potential they would require a very different formula, for digestion (rate of enzyme release) and for skin needs etc. My next point is when we consider wolves they eat to survive, they go through events when they gorge and then starve. Is this what we should do to our dogs? Wolves also eat a high degree of grains, so are they really that bad then? First part any wild animal (even feral) eat on their kill is the digestive tract of a vegetarian - FULL of grains). I also am against switching their foods all the time. Based on the science this is not appropriate. Even wild animals become very in tune to hunting ONE type of prey, and when that prey goes through a low year the predators suffer and whole pack can be lost. Research has really shown that switching all the time actually is leading to more issues! Especially if the quality isn’t there. Just because a diet has duck and that us "supposed" to be better does not mean it is more digestible or has been cooked properly to be more digestible. I think research has really shown us what animals require everywhere, and I think it is ignorant to assume it is a waste and that people with no higher degree know better. If you have actually done research you will understand where I am coming from.

I know there will be people that will disagree with me, but I have studied and researched this topic for many years. Trust me I have looked at many brands and methods of feeding. My only purpose was to get some of you to do some stimulated thinking, only read PEER REVIEWED papers and really look at their research. Please do not believe everything you read, it is sad that ALOT of the information out there is wrong and that people with my background are letting people with NO background teach people who want to learn. Happy researching!

 

So I see everyone is leaving, but I just had to say my little tidbits to get some of you thinking

THANK YOU for joining in with a voice of reason!

 

I received my degree from the University of Guelph where I studied animal nutrition; I focused on nutrition, immunology, pathology and biochemistry (for any nutrition degree biochem is of major importance). I have always had a HUGE interest in animals and their health, growing up I worked in vet clinics and animal shelters and saw firsthand how nutrition worked on the outside, and decided to learn how it worked on the inside. I furthered my degree and received my Master’s degree in Animal Nutrition and Toxicology from a world renowned professor. For this degree I actually studied (and later taught) how to formulate diets, and how all types of diets are produced, I learned a lot about the ins and outs of MANY food manufacturing companies not just pet food. My significant is also a plant biologist, so I am very well versed (even took a couple of classes myself) in any type of crop we can grow and its nutritional breakdown. Did you know wheat, barley and rye are basically the same ingreint? Many companies say no wheat yet add barely instead - just preying on the uneducated consumer (which I think is unfair! and it should not be that way!)
I have learned what some companies actually do and what others/ how others claim what they do. I have a lot of experience in the regulatory field and have learned how LITTLE pet food is regulated and the scary truth behind many claims. In Canada the CFIA regulates the claims that can be put on bags for livestock; these claims actually have to have scientific proof (more than even 2 trials) that it ACTUALLY does this on a cellular level. Pet food, is mildly regulated by AAFCO and many bags can make claims that are false and have no legal issues.
To be honest my knowledge comes from years of studying animal physiology and how the body works I have studied dogs, cats, rabbits, horses, cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, etc. I have read countless journal articles and am in the midst of having some of my masters work published (my masters was of PhD standards, and I was told I should have just merged it into one, but my advisor didn’t believe in that).

My real piece of advice is to read only peer reviewed articles there is ALOT of rules in place and all research has to be warranted and truly prove something in order to be published this way. Regular articles written by anyone who can type can be very bias and misleading; many times they are based on personal thoughts of what people have seen visually. When real nutrition is what is happening on a cellular level, not visual level. Things can look good on the outside yet are deficient on the inside.

When I teach people/students nutrition I work on the basis of educating them on ingredients (what each one is and can bring to a formula), how the body works and actually utilizes the nutrients, and how feeds are cooked. I feel if people can be educated from a non bias method it can equip them to make better choices based on sound evidence not the fancy scare tactic marketing many companies use. If you have any questions I am very glad to help and have been told by many people I am a book of knowledge

 

That's all great, and you sound very knowledgeable. Can you present me with some type of reading on the theories you are referring to here? I know of other people with all kinds of education on nutrition, biology, physiology, veterinary, that believe differently based on their education, studies, and experience, and they have presented me with further reason to believe and understand their theories. Please help me understand.

I'm not sure that we're not already on the same page here. Which diet do you say is best for a dog? Which brand kibble would you suggest? Do you beleive in feeding dogs a RAW diet? Why, or why not? Which dog food companies are misleading us (as consumers), and how?

 

That's all great, and you sound very knowledgeable. Can you present me with some type of reading on the theories you are referring to here? I know of other people with all kinds of education on nutrition, biology, physiology, veterinary, that believe differently based on their education, studies, and experience, and they have presented me with further reason to believe and understand their theories. Please help me understand.

I'm not sure that we're not already on the same page here. Which diet do you say is best for a dog? Which brand kibble would you suggest? Do you beleive in feeding dogs a RAW diet? Why, or why not? Which dog food companies are misleading us (as consumers), and how?

This still needs to be answered as well!!:wink:

 

Huginn -
This may be an interesting read for you:
The Evolutionary Basis for the feeding behaviour of domestic dogs (Canis familiaris) and Cats (Felis catus), by John Bradshaw

Think of evolution and what domestic dogs have been eating for the past 100,000+ years. They eat what people eat, fight of the fittest. Think about how quickly we have changed what we now consider the common cow (Bos taurus). Do you not think that they have actually evolved to eat carbs? They create pancreatic amylase and very well I might add. Why do we consider the "wolf diet" to be the most correct? They are NOT wolves, they are far removed, do not tell me a Chihuahua is needs the same as a wolf? Really? Also, in feral dogs what do they prey on? Vegetarian species. What is the first part they ALWAYS eat? The intestines! I am not sure why a raw diet without the intestinal content is considered correct. You cannot get all nutrients from meat; this is why strict carnivores eat the intestines of vegetarians! There are many nutrients and some are not present in meat and other in veggies (by veggies I am also considering grains) In my opinion if you wanted to feed correctly you should feed the whole damned carcass, skin and all!!! (They require that hair for digestive transit, without the friction they do not have proper intestinal cells sloughing off and this can be linked with cancers!) I just think before we start considering what is "appropriate" we need to look at the WHOLE picture not just focus on one part!

 

And to think I nearly felt bad thinking "Wow what kind of person would name themselves "The Expert"".....because now we know, a misinformed brainwashed one!:thumb:

 

Yes. Brainwashed by evidence and research. When anyone who knows anything knows they should be learning everything they need to know from people in forums like this.