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Discussion Starter #1
I am new to this site and forums in general.
I have read the posts "Yeasty Paws" and "Itching Puppy" as well as many others here.
I haven't quite seen our puppy's symptoms. Here's a quick rundown:
She is almost 5 mths old - large mixed breed, we were told Austrailian Shepherd/Blue Heeler. 30 pounds now. she was a rescue situation - on her way to the pound, I took her in.
We have had her 2 months. 4 trips to the Vet for scratching.
1st trip: yeast infection in her ears, round worms, 1 tick, a few fleas
2nd trip: infection and worms gone, skin scraping for mange, scrip to ease itching. no mange found
3rd trip: she is literally bleeding from the scratching. Found 1 flea on her. Another scraping, no mange found, a second flea prevention and oral preventative, Temaril-P for itching. Symptoms eased and skin begin to heal. Finished Temaril-P and within 2 days, the scratching returned, skin became raw and bleeding.
4th trip: A third flea preventative and oral dose, another scraping-no mange found, refill Temaril-P. Found 3 fleas the next day. but the scratching is much better and skin is healing.

The Problem: I am almost out of the scrip - and am afraid the scratching will start again!

Diet: I was told she was on Puppy Chow when we got her. I put her on Nutro Puppy.
When I noticed the constant scratching, I began researching- then spent a month switching her to Castor & Pollux Organix and now on to their Natural Ultramix Puppy - they have no wheat. She has been on Natural Ultramix for 2 weeks - and no wheat in treats, etc...the only problem there, is now she seems gassy - whew!

Vets response: says it's unusual for puppy's her age to exhibit food allergies or even environmental allergies. Thinks she has an extreme reaction to even a few flea bites.

Other info: at times we have felt a moistness in her skin around the tummy and chest - almost like sweating.
She has had a strange odor at these times - not just puppy smell
Her scratching is mostly on her underside from the neck to the rear.

I know this is long - but I am going for 'thorough'.
I have read the posts regarding Apple Cider Vinegar and probiotics.
Do you all think they could help in this situation.
Thank you very much for considering our problem.
 

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I personally don't know much about the ACV as i haven't started it on my guy, i have seen some AMAZING results from it though in pups with allergies. Personally if mine was having this problem and i have exhausted the vets remedies, i would be going with something else, like the ACV i don't think it could hurt anything. are you using any topicals for the affected area? medicated shampoo etc?

I've been recommended for skin allergies by many people to use "distilled white vinegar" 50/50 split with water after bathing you just wash them down in that mixture scrubbing as you go and then rinse one more time, i have also seen many before and afters using this method as well, they had some of the same symptoms as your pup, scratching hair loss etc, and it began to relieve them. you can try these but i am by no means absolute they will work, it is just from things that i would try that were recommended to me for mine.

and a :bump: for more help :)
 
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Hello and welcome! Sorry to read your puppy is so uncomfortable!

The "sweating" you see/feel is a reaction of the skin to extreme irritation, kinda like oozing. Either way its a sign of skin in need to desperate help.

I personally would get her off all kibble and go for something like a prey model raw diet. That way you know exactly what she is eating, so that if its a food allergy you can do process of elimination. A diet like this will also jump start her immune system to help her fight off bugs like fleas and get rid of yeasty problems. There's a wealth of information here on raw feeding and we will all be happy to answer your questions.

For the time being I would keep her on the Temaril P to keep her itching under control. The ideal scenario with Temaril is to find the lowest effective dose that will keep her comfortable until it can be weeded out completely.
 

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My 7 year old Shih Tzu had very similar problems from the time he was 2 years old. Over the years I've used Malaseb medicated shampoo and the Malaseb spray for in-between baths. He had a lot of ear infections and his hair was completely gone in a large area on his chest and the skin was red and irritated in this bald area. He also had that "moist" feeling and the "odd smell" you refer to. The vet used to prescribe 4 mg of Chorpheniramine which is an antihistimine and really helped with the itching. There would be 30 in the bottle for around $8.00. One day one of the other vets told me you could buy this same medicine at the drug store so I now buy a bottle at Walmart with 100 tablets for around $2.75. I would give 1/2 a tablet twice a day for my 15 lb. dog. If you want to try these they're in the allergy isle and the bottle reads "Equate Chlortabs Chorpheniramine Maleate" and it's the 4 MG dose.

However, I was only treating the systems and not solving the problem. I stumbled across this site last August and realized that his problems were probably food related (don't get me started, but he was on Science Diet ZD Ultra at the vet's suggestion). I had nothing to lose so I immediately started both my dogs on PMR and all their problems disappeared. It took 5 months for the hair to fully grow back on his chest but in that time he was no longer itchy, smelly or moist feeling. Also, I don't remember the last time either of them had an ear infection.

I still keep the Chlortabs on hand for environmental allergies and occassionally take one myself and probably will today since I can't breathe with all the pollen.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wow! I am so impressed with the posters here and the time you are giving me. Thank you for the recommendations.
I will begin researching the Raw Diet. And I will compare what the Vet is giving me to the drug at WalMart. I will also try the apple cider vinegar and a vinegar wash after a bath. I am using and oatmeal shampoo on her, but it doesn't seem to help.
Again, thank you for welcoming me- and for your input. Please keep me updated with other remedies you know of. I will let you know if we make any progress.
DaneMama - I especially appreciate the info about the "sweating" as my Vet seemed confounded.
thanks!
 

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About the oatmeal shampoo, if the pup does have some sort of allergy, maybe to grains, it could be possible that the oatmeal in the shampoo could make it worse as well.
Raw really would be the best way to go, you could also try using a shampoo with no oatmeal, and no irritants (no sodium laureth sulfate) etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for the great suggestion. I hadn't considered that oatmeal might be an irritant.
I also found a flea on her last night. And she has been scratching like crazy for a couple of days. Vet says treat with another dose of Vectra preventative. And refilled her Temeril-P. It has only been 2 weeks since her last Vectra. This has been the pattern. The 30 day dose only seems to work for 2 weeks.
Anyone else know of a successful prevention.?
Thanks again.
 

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Vets response: says it's unusual for puppy's her age to exhibit food allergies or even environmental allergies.
My dog has had allergies since he was 7 months old (when I adopted him). I don't know why age would matter for something like environmental allergies.

I would seek the advice of an animal dermatologist/allergist. You can have environmental allergies tested and treated. Switching food was a good move, but keep in mind that it can take 10-12 weeks to see results -- IF the allergies are food-related, which the majority are not. Most allergies in dogs are environmental. I don't know anything about the food your feeding now, but hopefully it has no common ingredients with the previous food.

Allergies can be caused by something seemingly benign -- your laundry detergent, fabric softener, carpet powder, floor cleaner, etc. Think about all the things in your puppy's environment and try to switch to allergen-free versions if possible. I bought an air purifier and a humidifier, and a Dyson vacuum cleaner. I also towel him off after EVERY trip outside with microfiber towels. Things have been great since last summer, but I'm bracing for the change in seasons.
 

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My pup came to me at 17 weeks old eating a kibble with 3rd ingredient corn gluten (yum, corn gluten is a herbicide... perfect food for a dog.:tsk::rolleyes:).
I promised the breeder I would keep her on kibble and I tried to honor that but I couldn't.
The first day I picked her up, I noticed she had redish brown gunk in her ears. Our vet noticed it immediately. We used ear drops, the infection came back.
My pup was scratching so much, I kept running a flea comb through her coat...no fleas. She was waking up from a sound sleep every night to scratch herself like crazy (her crate is next to my bed).
By 5 months old she had black nail beds, staining between her paws, bad breath, and puppy vaginitis. I know many people will say PV is normal, but it is another indication the immune system is in overdrive.

Two weeks after the switch from artificial food (kibble) to whole, fresh raw prey model, the scratching was subsiding and her ears cleared up. She was no longer waking up from a sound sleep scratching and only scratching herself a few times a day. The feet took several months. FYI, Google dog's yeast overgrowth.

I supplemented the raw diet with heavy doses of probiotics (Wysong Innoculant & iFlora Critical Care).

Health begins from within....it's that simple. You know the old saying...you are what you eat is 100% true. Change the diet to a species appropriate and whole foods. Dr. Becker makes a good point about feeding your dog a raw diet vs. kibble....You wouldn't raise your children on meal replacement bars, would you?

Hey, if we're wrong and this is environmental....your dog will have a stronger immune system to deal with everything else. :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLTlqnMMg
 

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Wow! I am so impressed with the posters here and the time you are giving me. Thank you for the recommendations.
I will begin researching the Raw Diet. And I will compare what the Vet is giving me to the drug at WalMart. I will also try the apple cider vinegar and a vinegar wash after a bath. I am using and oatmeal shampoo on her, but it doesn't seem to help.
Again, thank you for welcoming me- and for your input. Please keep me updated with other remedies you know of. I will let you know if we make any progress.
DaneMama - I especially appreciate the info about the "sweating" as my Vet seemed confounded.
thanks!
not trying to push on you, honest, but if ever there was a dog who belongs on a raw diet, which is less scary than what you're going through now...this baby is it.

i wish you the best of luck.
 

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If you aren't ready to try a raw diet yet, you could go to a food without as many allergens in it as the Castor n Pollox. These are the ingredients in the puppy version and I've highlighted all the ones that are known dog allergens. (my own dogs have bad reactions to flaxseed, yeast, oats, salmon, and cranberries.) It also contains salt and sugar which are not needed in dog food. I had to look up milo :nerd: but it is a variety of grass or grain (like sorghum).

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Milo, Ground Whole Oats, Ground Whole Barley, Dried Bananas, Chicken Fat (Naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Brown Rice, Dried Peas, Natural Chicken Flavor, salmon, Tomato Pomace, Brewers Dried Yeast, Ground Whole Flaxseed, Dried Sweet Potatoes, Dried Carrots, Dried Egg Product, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Freeze Dried Peas, Dried Cranberries, Dicalcium Phosphate, Fructooligosaccharide, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Sodium Selenite, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract.

Try and find a canned 95% meat or a high meat content kibble without all the extra ingredients and see if that helps.
 

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if you're not wanting or ready to go raw, which is fine, have you considered cooking your dog's food....in this way, you'd be in complete control of what the puppy ate.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
[QUOTEI would seek the advice of an animal dermatologist/allergist. You can have environmental allergies tested and treated. Switching food was a good move, but keep in mind that it can take 10-12 weeks to see results -- IF the allergies are food-related, which the majority are not. Most allergies in dogs are environmental. I don't know anything about the food your feeding now, but hopefully it has no common ingredients with the previous food.

wow, I didn't know it would take 10 -12 weeks to see results!! whew. I think the dermatologist is our next step - unfortunately....
 

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Chowder:
Thank you for taking the time to list the suspect ingredients. I had actually given her liquid flaxseed in an effort to improve her coat! yeesh - what a wrong move!
 

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By the way, I will try the 95% canned.
Have any of you ever given "Food Grade Diotimacious (sp?) Earth" to your dogs to help repel fleas???
I have read that an approx. 1/2 teaspoon added to food, can help them repel fleas... a little scary...
 

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are you using any medicated shampoos? it almost sounds like yeast/bacterial infection due to allergies. I've had good results with zymox products, so I would get a shampoo and rinse
Amazon.com: Zymox Medicated Pet Shampoo, 12-Ounce: Home & Garden

Amazon.com: Zymox Medicated Antibacterial Pet Rinse, 12-Ounce: Home & Garden

as far as diet goes, raw or homecooked is the best way to narrow down an allergy but if you want to try a kibble, I'd pick california natural, pinnacle or nutrisca (lamb/chickpea). It would also help to add fish oil to the diet.

As far as D-earth, I dont see how it would get rid of fleas internally, just worms, but you can use it externally. I dont use topical flea treatments anymore since d-earth works pretty well, there are few downsides like being messy and it must be reapplied if the dog gets wet. I use a spice bottle to apply it on the fur and then brush it in. Focusing especially around the neck area, and base of tail. I would also advice covering dogs face with a towel while applyng the powder since it dehydrates moist tissue and can be very irritating. When you purchase d-earth, make sure its food grade and not treated with chemicals.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you for the Zymox recommendation. And the DE application tips. I went to a specialized pet food store yesterday and they didn't have any. I'm going to try Whole Foods today.
 

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I've had dogs almost my entire life, but our new puppy was the first like this...Now 7 months old, he has been itching himself raw for the last few months. It has been really stressful for us.
We have tried Orijen, Nutrisca (lamb and chickpea), Wellness, Grandma Lucys (very expensive dehydrated), Honest Kitchen (very expensive dehydrated), Blue, Evo...No change at all. The only food that he does somewhat decent on is Nutro (a horrible quality of food)...

We are on day 6 of raw feeding (the first day or two I gave him raw chicken, lamb and beef, before switching to just the chicken quarters)...He is doing so much better. He was allergic to chicken in dog food (chicken, fish, potato and sweet potato were his main ones, but I suspect grains bothered him as well, just to a lesser extent)...But he is doing awesome with the raw chicken.

My wife is a vegetarian, and was not thrilled with the idea of having him eat raw (she thought it would be unsanitary, but acknowledged it was likely healthier). But to have him stop itching, it has been worth it.

After all the dog foods we've tried, looking back, I think his body just reacts strongly to carb's (esp cooked carb's) and it messes up his digestive system. Obviously with him able to eat raw chicken, he's not allergic to chicken.

By the way we tried ACV, probiotics, Chia, Salmon Oil, Chlorella etc...Nothing changed.


His last month before the switch we spent $355 on his food and supplements!
 

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I've had dogs almost my entire life, but our new puppy was the first like this...Now 7 months old, he has been itching himself raw for the last few months. It has been really stressful for us.
We have tried Orijen, Nutrisca (lamb and chickpea), Wellness, Grandma Lucys (very expensive dehydrated), Honest Kitchen (very expensive dehydrated), Blue, Evo...No change at all. The only food that he does somewhat decent on is Nutro (a horrible quality of food)...

We are on day 6 of raw feeding (the first day or two I gave him raw chicken, lamb and beef, before switching to just the chicken quarters)...He is doing so much better. He was allergic to chicken in dog food (chicken, fish, potato and sweet potato were his main ones, but I suspect grains bothered him as well, just to a lesser extent)...But he is doing awesome with the raw chicken.

My wife is a vegetarian, and was not thrilled with the idea of having him eat raw (she thought it would be unsanitary, but acknowledged it was likely healthier). But to have him stop itching, it has been worth it.

After all the dog foods we've tried, looking back, I think his body just reacts strongly to carb's (esp cooked carb's) and it messes up his digestive system. Obviously with him able to eat raw chicken, he's not allergic to chicken.

By the way we tried ACV, probiotics, Chia, Salmon Oil, Chlorella etc...Nothing changed.


His last month before the switch we spent $355 on his food and supplements!
it's such a feeling, isn't it?

i'm so very pleased for you..

and, as i've said, for myself........ i wished i had heeded the warning signs of every kibble that made my dogs' ears icky, their coats dull, the slight lethargy....smack me upside the head.....and start looking for different answers years ago. but. we live. we learn. and then we see the miracle.

i'm very happy for you.
 
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