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And when a user comes along that can't feed Raw and looking for recommendations as to what kibble, some Raw feeders will suggest try something like Orijen with the Marigold Flowers and Dandelions.
I don't know what this has to do with the price of eggs in China. My statement said, "Flowers and yogurt I seriously doubt are just not part of a wild wolf's diet." My statement has absolutely nothing to do with whatever incredients are in whatever kibbles. You are really grasping for straws now, CB. :smile:
 
The problem is that vets have to take only one nutrition course the whole time they are in vet school and it is a course about animal nutrition. Thats all animals, cows, horses, cats, pigs, goats, AND DOGS. Unfortunately, vets have no more nutritional training than the average person on the street. Your vet is the last person you want to consult with about feeding your dog. All he will do is look at some promotional material from one or more dog food companies.
There's an old saying (I think Mark Twain? NOPE! It was Upton Sinclair) I'll paraphrase here-

'It's hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'

I think that relates to anyone out there doing studies on dog nutrition and lots of vets as well. If a vet sells any kind of dog food, I don't think I can view them as unaffiliated with the industry that needs us to believe in it's product.
If we had some kind of independent organization evaluating their claims like we do for human food, I'd have a little more faith in their claims.
 
I'm just curious (and certainly not trying to attack anyone), why don't some people feed raw?

I see a lot of people say, "I'm just not ready to do it." or "I just don't want to." So I'm just wondering what some of those reasons are. Why are some people not ready to and not sure they ever will be (come on this is feeding your dog, not having a baby).
Since this thread has been revived, I'd like to answer this question.

First, because raw is not proven, scientifically, meaning, no studies. We have to take the word of those who have done it for years and sometimes, that is hard to do when you don't know the people.

Second, it is more expensive than kibble.

Third, often times, people have no idea what is in their pet's food and most just trust that their vet wouldn't lead them astray or that the pet food industry wouldn't dare include ear tags in the mess they mash together and cook for our pets. Who would do such a thing!

Fourth, scare tactics can work. Your dog will choke to death on a chicken bone, your dog will die of e-coli, salmonella, bacteria, parasites, worms, etc. You will kill your dog if you feed it raw. Dogs are not wolves. Blah, blah. We've all heard those arguments and many people just believe those arguments. Even ones who research can have a hard time making the leap. It sure wasn't easy for me the very first time I fed my dogs a raw chicken bone. I sat right next to their crates and watched, with an eagle eye, for any problems. When it comes time to feed raw fish, I'll do the same. We get told something for so long, even though we read that it's not true, it can be difficult to undo all those years of believing a certain way.

Fifth, some of us have a hard time feeding animal parts. I'm not a vegetarian but I do have a hard time eating a lot of different types of meat simply because I know how some of them are raised, shipped and slaughtered. The first time I caught myself stuck behind a semi carrying live chickens, I didn't eat chicken for a year after that. As it is, I'll eat cow and drink cow milk. I feel terribly guilty for killing an animal to eat it but the taste wins every time. It's an ongoing conflict. We need protein, I love the taste of cow...but, I'm sorry cow.

There are animals that I will never be able to bring myself to feed my dogs. I cannot feed them anything I've ever had as a pet. This includes rats, mice, birds, (not chicken or turkey although I've met a few really cool chickens in my life and this is not easy for me), guinea pigs, rabbits, etc. I can't do it.

I'm in conflict right now with deer/venison. I do not like hunting. A co-worker of mine likes hunting and talks about killing things all the time. He is going on a hunting trip in November to kill deer. After a discussion, I realized that most of that deer is not used. On the one hand, I don't want to be a party to killing the deer but on the other hand I think, if it's just going to waste, that is worse. At least use all or most of the deer. If he won't eat it, my dogs will. For me, it's not even about the "score" of getting free meat, it's about not wanting to waste a life like that.

I know people won't agree with me and that's fine. This is how it is for me. I read a lot about raw feeding and while I'm doing good for my animals, I'm contributing to the slaughter of others. For some people, this is not a problem. For others, such as myself, this isn't easy.

What makes it different, since I know there is meat in kibble, is that with kibble, it was easier to fool myself. Not so easy when you're looking at animal parts or a whole animal and feeding it to your pets.

But, I'm working on that and my dogs will get raw because I believe dogs are carnivores and should be fed a diet suited to a carnivore whether I have personal issues with it, or not. That is what I finally told myself and then made the switch. That did not happen overnight...there was a point where I, "wasn't ready".
 
First, because raw is not proven, scientifically, meaning, no studies.
You're right. There is no pet food company comparing how dogs do being fed "as directed" and 100 times the suggested amount of the same food, and claiming that when fed "as directed" it extended dog's lifespan. There is no hot shot company putting millions into entirely ridiculous "trials" during which all that has to happen, is dogs staying alive for 6 months, without wasting away.
There is nature, though, which has proven itself for millions of years? That, in my book, will hold more water than some Hills study ever will. Hills Science Diet: because sawdust cures any ailment.



Second, it is more expensive than kibble.
Big. Fat. Wrong.
To feed my girls EVO, I'd be spending $140/month.
To feed them Taste of the WIld, I'd be spending $100/month
To feed them PMR, I am spending roughly $80-$90/month, depending on sales.

Third, often times, people have no idea what is in their pet's food and most just trust that their vet wouldn't lead them astray or that the pet food industry wouldn't dare include ear tags in the mess they mash together and cook for our pets. Who would do such a thing!
This is probably why MOST people feed crappy food. The commercials said so, and so did their vet!
I know that's why I fed pedigree for SO long. That's what the vet said to feed. I mean, she's the vet, she must know better than me, right?
I think most people are entirely unaware of the lack of regulation with pet foods, and assume that if it's on the shelves, it must be OK.

I sat right next to their crates and watched, with an eagle eye, for any problems. When it comes time to feed raw fish, I'll do the same.
Haha! I'm glad I'm not the only one! I watched video after video on youtube, and still, the first time I gave Griss a chicken thigh, despite being excited to go raw, there, in the back of my mind, I was freaking out. IF i was wrong. IF he choked. IF anything went wrong. blah blah blha. A year later, I can't believe how silly I was!

I know people won't agree with me and that's fine. This is how it is for me. I read a lot about raw feeding and while I'm doing good for my animals, I'm contributing to the slaughter of others. For some people, this is not a problem. For others, such as myself, this isn't easy.
I had a somewhat difficult time with this, myself.
One thing I kept in mind: circle of life. Dogs (and other carnivores) were made and designed to eat other animals. By eating the animal, they are helping that animal fulfill their purpose here. That, and not feeding them that way, is an injustice to the dog, and then you're on a whole other moral battle.
Admittedly, I went from feeling bad, to feeding live rabbit (yes. Live. I said it. AND, I can almost guarantee that the way Champ kills his rabbit is FAR more humane than the farmed rabbit people buy in stores are killed. Kill me.) in little over 6 months time, and now I don't think twice. If it's meat, it's theirs. Period. I would have a very tough time with killing a rabbit for my own consumption... but for the dogs? not at all.
 
Big. Fat. Wrong.
To feed my girls EVO, I'd be spending $140/month.
To feed them Taste of the WIld, I'd be spending $100/month
To feed them PMR, I am spending roughly $80-$90/month, depending on sales.
You are, of course, assuming that everyone fed these types of food. It is more expensive than that $15-20, twenty pound bag of dog food that would feed my dogs for over a month. For me, this is far more expensive. Considering how much money these pet food manufacturers make off of that crap put out on the store aisles, I'd say I'm not the only one who actually believed that as long as the first ingredient or, better yet, the first two ingredients were meat or meat by product, I was doing something good.
 
Firstly, cleanliness/ease of handling for a dog that is hand fed, and the food is used for training treats.

Secondly, I am not convinced that feeding raw bones is sufficiently safe. I have a friend who is an ex-vet (so no products to sell or professional insurance to worry about) and she lectures me about all the bits of bone she's removed from dogs!

By the way, my actual vet admits that commercial cat food is problematic, but thinks that commercial dog food is better. So he's not completely brainwashed. (I live in the UK and I don't know how nutrition is taught in vet schools here. )

More minor concerns are that I'd have to buy a second freezer and fit it in somewhere, and that convincing other family members that it is a good idea would be difficult. I don't think the boarding kennels would want to feed raw, either.

I am considering, however, feeding a mixed diet of kibble and raw minced food and see how that suits him. I know other people that do this and find their dogs do well on it.
 
Firstly, cleanliness/ease of handling for a dog that is hand fed, and the food is used for training treats.

Secondly, I am not convinced that feeding raw bones is sufficiently safe. I have a friend who is an ex-vet (so no products to sell or professional insurance to worry about) and she lectures me about all the bits of bone she's removed from dogs!

By the way, my actual vet admits that commercial cat food is problematic, but thinks that commercial dog food is better. So he's not completely brainwashed. (I live in the UK and I don't know how nutrition is taught in vet schools here. )

More minor concerns are that I'd have to buy a second freezer and fit it in somewhere, and that convincing other family members that it is a good idea would be difficult. I don't think the boarding kennels would want to feed raw, either.

I am considering, however, feeding a mixed diet of kibble and raw minced food and see how that suits him. I know other people that do this and find their dogs do well on it.
Actually my dad who's been a vet for 40 years has NEVER removed a raw uncooked bone from a dog, the cooked bones are the ones that cause the problems not the uncooked. I am feeding 4 dogs and haven't bought a 2nd freezer yet...do I want one, heck yeah then I could stock up more when sales hit, but I'm not going to get one just yet.
 
Secondly, I am not convinced that feeding raw bones is sufficiently safe. I have a friend who is an ex-vet (so no products to sell or professional insurance to worry about) and she lectures me about all the bits of bone she's removed from dogs!
Perhaps no current incentive, but years of brainwashing from the big companies, especially the ones that wrote her vet school book.


By the way, I BET, if a doctor were to open me up right now, they'd find scrambled eggs, a tortilla, and some cheese. I bet that means scrambled eggs are super dangerous, right?
My point is, people rush to the vet worried that their dog just swallowed a bone, of COURSE a vet will remove the bone from the stomach. Heck, that's gotta be what, $1000 for them?
 
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