Dog Food Chat banner

Why not?

28K views 187 replies 30 participants last post by  CorgiPaws 
#1 ·
I'm just curious (and certainly not trying to attack anyone), why don't some people feed raw?

I see a lot of people say, "I'm just not ready to do it." or "I just don't want to." So I'm just wondering what some of those reasons are. Why are some people not ready to and not sure they ever will be (come on this is feeding your dog, not having a baby). Some people say they just don't want to, but it's not like someone's asking you to kill your mom or do drugs.

Sorry if this thread offends anyone, but I get these ambiguous answers a lot when I'm trying to convince people to stop feeding their dogs crappy kibble food too, yet I know all you kibble feeders would happily side with me on that argument. So when you're ripping your hair out wondering why your dog won't eat the kibble you put down, or gets horrendous bouts of diarrhea from it or other health issues, or has the world's worst food allergies and can only eat a certain brand at a certain time but only if it's purchased from a certain store, I guess the only question left is: why not try it?

Believe me, I'm not trying to bully anyone into converting to raw, I'm simply curious. And maybe your answers can help me answer the doubts of other people out there who are frustrated with kibble but refuse to go raw for reasons unknown. Or even people who are frustrated with Pedigree but refuse to upgrade because "well my dog's been on it his whole life and I just don't want to change, even if he does have cancer, dry skin, excessive shedding, raging ear infections, is morbidly obese, and can barely walk." (not that any of you are on that boat, but you'd be surprised how many idiots I find who are like that... or maybe you wouldn't be surprised)
 
See less See more
Discussion starter · #17 · (Edited)
Here is a link I found while I was doing a bit of research from UC DAVIS veterinary nutritionists that I found interesting. Enjoy.

UC Davis: Spotlight: Fueling Fido
No offense but that article didn't really have any helpful information in it whatsoever. If people didn't already know about not storing dog food in non-airtight containers in blazing hot temperatures, then that's just sad. The rest of it was either pointless, and mostly incorrect.

I think it is just fine to question vet schools since they actually are funded by major dog food companies, and so are their veterinary nutritionist programs. It is, unfortunately, not just a conspiracy theory. Vets really only do get one class on nutrition for all animals that they don't really have to pay much attention to. And usually these classes are taught by representatives from a pet food company. And the pet food companies will pay off freshly graduated veterinarian's debt and give them money to establish a practice promoting their products. Don't believe me? I asked two vets about it myself.

Still don't believe me? Check out the Science Diet website, they tell all about it. Hill's Pet Nutrition Students

Bottom line: vets get sub-par education on nutrition because they aren't really given the opportunity to learn otherwise.
 
Discussion starter · #20 · (Edited)
I agree kibble is the most un-natural food to feed a dog, but I disagree that feeding raw is the best. I know dogs need meat, I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. I just think feeding dogs cooked meat is no worse than raw for me.
The difference is that cooked meat has all the enzymes and nutrition cooked out of it so their pancreas still has to secrete extra enzymes so they can digest it which weakens their immune system along with the rest of their body. I've gone over this before in other threads so I won't go into detail again here.

Also, when you feed a strictly home cooked meal, since you're cooking the bones, you can't feed them to dogs which destroys the calcium/phosphorus ratio so your dog isn't getting enough calcium, hence the reason why home cooked feeders usually have to supplement with either calcium or kibble in order to balance their meals and raw feeders do not.

Think of it this way, What if wolves or wild dogs ate 2 or 3 meals a day of modern premium dog food or cooked homemade food. They would probably do just as well if not better. A wolves life span is not any longer than a domestic dogs. 8-10 years, I looked it up. so on average a domestic dogs is a little longer, but I would assume that due to the enviornment.
Wolves probably only live that long because they are exposed to all sorts of environmental and human elements that drastically shorten their lifespan including: diseases, starvation, lack of medical care when injured, and of course aerial shootings.

We will just have to agree to disagree.:cool:
I suppose so, if you believe none of our points are valid.

I grew up with a Golden Retriever who ate Skippy, Gravy Train, Rubber bands,
(I had a paper route) wood, cans. He lived to be 16, healthy as a horse. would swim with us every summer. Go figure. Dogs are resilient animals and can adapt to most situations. I'm sure we all have stories like that. It's good now to see so many people care about what they feed. Ultimatly we all want whats best for our pets and I think it's what works best for us and them.
Some dogs are predisposed to live longer than others. I've also read somewhere that dogs have the ability to live into their 20s with proper diet and exercise. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that one. Of course that would vary depending on the breed, size, and health of the dog as well.

I just hate it when people get this mentality that their perfectly healthy dog is practically knocking on death's door when they're 10 years old and they've practically written them off as dead already, when it's really only middle age for dogs. That's like telling someone who's 50 that they might as well start picking out a coffin because they'll be dead any day now (depends on the person, and their diet and health habits too though, I suppose).

Anyways, I enjoy the site and the friendly debates.
As do I!
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
.
Then why is it humans don't eat raw chicken? We all know cooking food diminishes the nutrients, But I have been eating cooked food all my life and
I'm fine. My dog eats cooked food and she is fine. We eat cooked food because it kills the bacteria, parasites and so on. It's SAFER. It also taste better.
I've actually heard of people who eat strictly raw foods including raw meat and they thrive as well. And dogs don't have a problem with bacteria in meat, so that's not really a valid excuse for why they cook their meat...oh no wait, they don't. Hmmmm:rolleyes:

I believe your points are based on your own opinion. The title of this thread is "WHY NOT". I'm stateing my opinion why I don't feed raw.
I suppose if you count an opinion as something backed up by fact, then yes, I am stating my opinion:wink:

I mentioned that when I said "wolves life span is probably a bit shorter due to enviornment". Anyways, I think that's a bad comparison(wolves and domestic dogs)My bad. Domestic dogs were engineered by humans to be pets, companions and so on.
Wait, are we talking about dogs or robots now?

Wolves are the ancestors of the domestic dog. A Shit Tzu and a Wolf in my opinion wouldn't have the same Diet.
Why not? I mean, sure, you'd never see a pack of Shih Tzus take down an elk, but it doesn't mean they couldn't eat it just the same. I bet I eat a very similar diet to what my ancestors ate and I bet you do too: meat/protein, veggies, carbs. Why can't dogs? In fact, the main causes of health problems in humans these days is that they eat too much processed/modern food and not enough healthy and natural foods. It seems as though the same applies in dogs as well. Too much processed foods, not enough real foods.

My dog does great with cooked homemade food, the same food I would eat. I make sure that her food has the proper nutrients and she is great.
But why? Your dog is a carnivore, you are an omnivore (unless you think that's just an opinion too). If you agree with that then why would you think your dog should eat the same things you do? And if that's the case, why don't you just eat what you feed your dog every day? Mmmm a little Honest Kitchen for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every single day.

I am not a Veterinary nutritionist, I don't know if you guys are, I just go by what works for me and what my Vet, and the Vet nutritionists at UC Davis say. I'm not telling you not to feed your dog Raw, obviously you have your beliefs. And yes, some Vets are unethical, sell Science Diet and don't know squat about dog nutrition, but UC Davis are full on nutritionists, professors and students that research dog nutrition everyday. If you believe it's a conspiracy theory and they don't care for the well being of our pets, just greed, well, then thats your belief. I have a greater opinion of them. Call me crazy.
I'm still pretty sure that Royal Canin sponsors most of the veterinary programs and vet nutritionist programs at UC Davis. Even if they don't push that brand every time in particular, their research will still all be based off of what RC has researched which his whatever they can to "prove" that dogs are onmivores and can survive on a diet filled with grains. Yes, they can survive, but it is appropriate? And should survival be your only goal? And does it count as survival if your dog dies 9 years before his/her normal life expectancy from cancer, kidney failure, etc.

And again, it's not a "conspiracy theory" if it's true!


It seems like you guys are trying to change my mind. I have looked into it, discussed it with my vet and raw is just not for me, or my dog. :frown:
It makes me sad too :frown:
I've met vets who make dogs worse going out than they were coming in. I've met vets who can't diagnose a dog overeating and assume it's either pancreatitis or salmonella. I've met vets who know so little about nutrition they think that Pedigree and Kibbles N Bits are great foods. I've met vets who poisoned my dog for 8 years and made her fall apart and have chronic yeast infections in her ears before they would finally admit to me that it was probably a food allergy caused by the SD prescription food they were telling us she had to have or she'd die. Guess what? It's been a year since she's been on SD and over 6 months since she's been on raw and she's the healthiest and happiest she's ever been since she was a puppy.

The bottom line is: you can probably trust your vet to operate on your dog and save it's life in cases of severe illness or injury, but when it comes to most other things, take it with a grain of salt.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
What do vet's learn about nutrition


Pottenger Study

There's 2 articles i think you should look at before you say that vets are experts in nutrition and that there are no studies behind raw. I have more studies, but they're on my work computer and i don't have them bookmarked here, i'll see if i can find them later though.
Please post them on the forum somewhere, I'd love to read them!
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
And the beat goes on!
But of course!

Don't tell me your gonna try and convince me to switch to raw now?
Sorry, I thrive on cooked food. And Sushi:biggrin:
No, this isn't a human nutrition forum and I'm a vegetarian, so I suppose if I really wanted to only eat raw, I could probably do just fine and not have to worry about salmonella or e.coli (except as it breaks out in spinach and peanuts and everything else in the world!). I'm just saying that cooking food isn't necessary for dogs because they don't have a problem with the bacteria and neither do a lot of people who bother to try it. Because you said "We eat cooked food because it kills the bacteria and parasites. It's SAFER." in reference to why you feed cooked meat to your dogs. And I said that's not a valid reason to cook it for your dogs because dogs don't have problems with those things. That's what I said, stop trying to dance around it :smile:

It's not an excuse. I don't care because I cook my dogs meat.
What?

I have yet to see a fact that says feeding raw is better. I v'e only heard it from u guys. Are you guys Veterinary Nutritionists?
No, we are people who have our dogs' best interests at heart, not brain-washed people getting paid by dog food companies. You caught me. Vets tell me Science Diet is the best thing I can feed my dog, yet I've seen multiple dogs, including my own, fall apart on it and do very poorly.

Some say seeing is believing. Since I've switched to raw, my dogs' poops have gotten smaller, more compact, and more biodegradable. Their teeth have almost no plaque left on them, their breath smells better, their coats are healthier, and they seem more happy and energetic. I see raw working.

When my dogs were on kibble, I saw them constantly shedding, they had dry flakey skin, their teeth had a lot of plaque build-up starting, and they were always mysteriously getting sick. I've see much worse on other kibble-fed dogs.

I even had one lady boast she was feeding raw by feeding the Honest Kitchen. Yet she complained about the incredible amounts of poop her dogs produce. When I told her about how I do prey model raw and my dogs barely poop at all and the quality and quantity of the poop are a reflection of how well the dog is digesting the food, she looked at me like I had three heads.

And again, If it turns out it is better, I still will cook my dogs meat because thats what I choose to do.
Umm kay, that's your choice.


No, we are talking dogs. Shi Tzu's, Boxers, Poodles, Dachshund and so on. They were all breed over hundreds of years to get certain traits and to make them domestic.
Hundreds of years is not very long in evolutionary terms. While their outward appearances may have changed, they are still carnivores descended from wolves with the same digestive tract.


A wolves bite and a German Sheperds bite, although similar are very different. A wolf is made for hunting and killing and has much more powerful teeth and bite. While a domestic German Sheperd was breed over hundreds of years to herd, and then to be a pet or work dog.
And yet all dogs still have the ability to hunt and kill things. I've also met wolves who have been raised as pets, are you going to tell me their digestive tracts changed as soon as they became domesticated as well?


I would think a wolves digestive system can tolerate what it was meant to eat in the wild, which is whatever it can find. A domestic dog has evolved. Sure, I guess some dogs do well on a raw diet, But a domesticated dog will do just as well on a cooked diet.
How do you know a dog's digestive system has evolved past that of a wolf's? That's just your opinion. Dogs will also eat whatever they can find too. It's not just some dogs doing well on raw, it's thousands, probably millions. What do you think strays and feral dogs eat? I'm guessing it isn't kibble and I'm also guessing that if they do come across raw meat either by hunting it (because yes, they can still do that), or finding it, I can guarantee you they don't cook it first.

And as far as a domesticated dog doing just as well on a cooked diet, that is also debatable. Their teeth probably won't be as clean naturally, their stools will probably be larger which is a sign that their food is less digestible, and who knows what else is going on in their bodies that isn't going right until one day it collapses?


LOL, That would be very funny!
Yes. I imagine a pack of shih tzus bringing down an elk would be very funny to watch. Like being attacked by a swarm of wigs, I'm sure.



I'm sorry for that experience you had, but you can't judge all vets based on a couple bad one's. My Vet is an exellent Vet and I trust her with my dogs life.
I remember at one point you were seriously considering going raw, did your vet have something to do with changing your mind? As I recall, you have the most wonderful situation set up to do so, fresh meat to feed to your dogs at your fingertips daily. Might I also add, I'll take any of the "icky" parts you don't want to eat or feed to your dog :biggrin:


They are just like any doctor or mechanic. You have to find the right one.
There are good people out there who care.
There is no doubt in my mind that these people all cared, they just don't know any better because their education made sure they didn't know any better. And ignorance can be just as dangerous as not caring. Like I said, I'll trust them if my dog sustains an injury or gets some sort of illness, but when it comes to nutrition, unless they're telling me something other than what I've read on all the dog food labels, I'm not going to trust them on it.

We can go on and on. This is quite the controversial subject.
But fun! I hope you're having fun too. I was once a kibble/cooked food feeder through and through for all the same reasons. I'm not saying that means you have to come around to raw eventually, I'm just saying that I'm very adept at both sides of the argument and I can understand certain concerns (lack of freezer space and place to put a freezer I can't really refute, everything else is pretty easy). I'm hoping that I might be able to help people see that there are two sides to this argument and maybe help them decide if raw is right for them or not. I'm not trying to force anyone into anything. But if you say something I don't agree with, I will debate it happily :smile:
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Once he realizes it's food, he'll probably go to town on the meat, but it's very common for dogs not to realize it's food. My dogs actually tried to avoid me at first when I offered it to them since they'd always been yelled at before for even looking at "people food" they probably thought it was a test of wills or something.

Anyway, searing it is a good idea, it will remind him of cooked meat he's maybe tried before, then he'll realize it's food and love it. You can also try cutting off a bite-sized chunk of meat first and offering it to him like a treat. That way he can also associate raw chicken with food.

Oh and PS you're awesome for being willing to try it out so quickly! Keep it up, I'm sure he'll figure it out soon!
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Holy cow, dream come true, that easy!?? That's amazing! Now, as for the list of what and when I should feed for certain raw meats, is that how I have to start? Chicken backs first, quarters next, etc?
Haha, I know, it's so simple! I was pretty stoked when I found that out too! No weaning and measuring and whatnot, just start feeding raw and they're good to go. Be forewarned that some dogs may go through a detox period that can include looser stools, vomiting, eye boogers, and shedding. However, this is simply a detox process where their body is trying to get rid of all the kibble build-up in their system. This usually lasts no more than a week or two and some dogs don't go through it at all. I have three dogs of varying breed mixes, sizes, ages, and health conditions and none of them went through it.

Since your dogs are already used to some raw snacks and have switched foods before, I'm guessing they'll probably be just fine with the switch.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Thats amazing! Now all I need is a mini freezer and I can start! Maybe i'll buy weekly for the time being just to get her started all that much quicker.
Buying weekly isn't so bad. That's pretty much what I have to do as my roommates hate how much space I take up in the freezer with my dog food so I pretty much get one designated shelf for all my raw (though I'll admit, I sometimes have to take up a little more space than that for my organ meat or extra "donations" from other people). But with adding in fish and other protein sources, I generally just buy 2 bags of leg quarters every 10 days or so. Since that's about how often I end up needing to go to the grocery store anyway, it isn't really an inconvenience for me at all.

My dogs started with quarters because backs are so hard to find. I got a whole chicken once and cut it up and voila, I had a back! The nice thing about whole chickens is that they're generally only 88 cents/lb in so for you, you can feed the bigger parts to China and the smaller parts to Duckie to start. But still, cutting them up is a pain in the butt.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
Awesome! Try not searing it first and see if he goes for it plain now that he knows what meat is :smile:

If not, just sear it super quick like you did and then he'll probably do it. Good luck!
 
Discussion starter · #61 ·
It should definitely slow his shedding! Especially if you give fish or fish oil pills once a week!

That's awesome, I've noticed my dogs all have more energy since starting raw too!
 
Discussion starter · #63 ·
My raw doesn't cost me that much or take up very much freezer space. We had to get a second fridge for our house but only because it was 5 roommates sharing one fridge, it got a little cramped. Yes our electric bill went up but that was better than everyone having to go to the grocery store daily because there was only enough room in the fridge for everyone to feed themselves for a day :smile:

I have no bitches who are pregnant, nor do I ever plan on having any, so my no-carb approach to feeding is fantastically perfect for my pups. And like I said, it doesn't cost me that much to feed raw, not anymore than a high quality kibble would anyway. I know you hate Orijen but as an example: my roommate feeds her one dog on Orijen and a big bag is around $60+ and lasts her maybe a month and a half for one dog. I feed all three of my dogs on raw for about $60/month. This is way more cost effective I believe.
 
Discussion starter · #66 ·
Doesn't it just look so right? Like a wolf in the wild or something. That's why I still love to watch my dogs eat, even 6 months after starting raw, it's still fun to watch it.
 
Discussion starter · #70 ·
How about putting the dogs in a separate room and shutting the door? Laundry rooms, bathrooms, and garages are perfect for this.
 
Discussion starter · #72 ·
That works! More of pain for you but there's something to be said for the price of peace of mind. You could also just make sure your children stay in their rooms while the dogs eat. Or stay on the couch and watch or something. Do they ever try to stick their hands in China's mouth while she's eating her kibble?

What about your laundry room?

Just brainstorming :smile:
 
Discussion starter · #83 ·
Yep, so long as the totals add up, thats all that matters. My dogs eat once a day and get their total meal then and they are happy campers.
 
Discussion starter · #86 ·
I don't know, I really like having my back scratched, I could see it being a pleasant experience for me :biggrin:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top