[luvMyBRT]

Today our breeder called me to let me know that the pups had been born yesterday! ((YEAH!!!!! :biggrin) We will be picking up our boy on Saturday June 19th.

She said something about giving him Vitamin C and Glucosamine supplements. I don't have a problem doing this if it's necessary.

Does a puppy really need glucosamine yet? Yes, I currently give it to my GSH Pointer, but she's 10. I would think maybe to start him on glucosamine when he is older, like 5....? What do you guys think?

What is the vit C for?

I will be feeding him kibbles such as Innova large breed puppy, Wellness large breed puppy, etc. Once he is an adult he will be kept on a high quality kibble or by then be eating RAW depending where we are living. I always thought that if the puppy/dog was eating a decent kibble (or raw) that they wound't really need any supplements.

Input?

 

[DaneMama]

Typically supplements are not needed if you're feeding a high quality food or especially raw. I do give omega 3 fatty acid supplements. I had stopped giving glucosamine because it didn't seem to help much, but I don't see the harm in giving it to your pup. I'm not sure why she wants you to give the vitamin C but maybe to boost the immune system? Maybe ask her for her reasoning...

 

[luvMyBRT]

Thanks.
I had started to ask her about the vit c but we got onto another subject and then I totally forgot. I'll ask when we talk again.

Is the omega 3 fatty acids to help with their skin/coat? Any other supplements you (or others) would recommend?

 

[luvMyBRT]

all you are doing is creating expensive pee. :smile:

LMAO! Well, I don't want to do that!! :biggrin:

 

[DaneMama]

I beg to differ that vitamin C only creates expensive urine. When Akasha got puppy warts (which are common in puppies because they don't have a full immune system yet) we gave her 1000mg of vitamin C each day to treat them suggested by another site. She litterally had hundreds of them all over her lips, gums and down her throat for several weeks while we looked for a solution (my boss/vet just said to leave them be and they would go away on their own). Within a day or two of giving her the vitamin C they were nearly gone. Another two days they had disappeared completely. While it may have been a total coincidence, my logic thinks otherwise.

Dogs may manufacture their own vitamin C but that doesn't mean that an extra boost of it does nothing.

 

[DaneMama]

My logic says listen to your boss.

Funny thing is she was NOT the one who told me to try vitamin C. Jon found that tidbit on another dog forum after doing some research on alternative treatments. I was the one that showed her that it DID work after she said "There's not much I can do." She was definitely surprised that it worked.

And I know that no matter what I say about it that you will not change your mind about it for your personal dogs. But I do think that it is wrong of you to tell others that it absolutely does nothing when you obviously don't know with 100% certainty that it does nothing. Let others form their own opinions.

To me if her body controlled the amount of vitamin C internally, why didn't her body produce more to combat the papillomas? How come giving her the vitamin C seemed to work if her body was "supposedly" eliminating it?

With all this being said, I don't see a need to give vitamin C as a supplement regularly. I'm just stating an opposing side to Bill's "it does nothing" point of view.

How does that explain your logic???

 

[luvMyBRT]

Thanks guys for your input.
I will talk to my breeder and to my vet about the vitamin C and then decide where to go from there. I do see how it can help in certain cases. :smile:

 

[DaneMama]

I definitely think it is a case by case situation. A healthy dog on a healthy diet shouldn't need it. Bill is right that it will make expensive pee in most cases, but in some cases like Akasha's it definitely worked well. I wouldn't give it as a regular supplement since you are going to feed a high quality kibble.

Glucosamine on the other hand I have only given it to one of my dogs for HD later in life. It probably wouldn't do any harm to give it earlier on in life but I also don't think it's a necessary supplement for puppies.

 

[Sir]

Last week I was speaking with a Naturopath after she told me a story about her 19 year old dog. Her dog has the blood chemistry of a 3 year old, per CSU.

Apparently, CSU has indicated the biochemistry of dogs and people are similar.
To me, this is a JACKPOT! hahaha

Giving additional VC to a dog to help boost it's immune system is okay.
A dog who is not in optimum health will not produce the optimum level of VC.
I'll give a dog VC any day over a vaccine.:biggrin:

Glucosamine sulfate for a puppy sounds as if they're overly cautious of the joint, (insure the aid to regeneration and renewing to the cartilage.)* I would ask about genetics of the puppies parents. The dose of Glucosamine sulfate and consistency of giving it really makes the key difference.

*This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

 

[DaneMama]

(insure the aid to regeneration and renewing to the cartilage.)

Cartilage does not regenerate or renew (same as there is no magical diet that cures HD), we have gone through this on another forum. If you would like to provide clinical data and results for a trial done on this that would be ideal and I will be proven wrong.

 

[luvMyBRT]

Glucosamine sulfate for a puppy sounds as if they're overly cautious of the joint, (insure the aid to regeneration and renewing to the cartilage.) I would ask about genetics of the puppies parents. The dose of Glucosamine sulfate and consistency of giving it really makes the key difference.

Thanks for the info. :smile:

I'm not worried in the slightest about the genetics of the puppies parents. Her breeding stock is OFA tested generations back. I've met all her BRTs as well as our puppies parents. Sires elbows are rated normal and hips are rated good. Dams elbows are rated normal and hips are rated excellent. Along with elbows and hips, she also tests heart and thyroid. So, for the most part, our new boy should be in excellent health.

 

[CorgiPaws]

I don't think that constant supplementation of anything is necessary, unless the dog in question has an ailment you're trying to fix. I think supplementing right away is overkill, and could potentially do more harm than good. That being said, if an ailment arises, at first signs, it would be my advice to turn to natural supplements to aid the issue.

My GSD mix has bad hips, and I used to supplement with glucosamine. In the past few months, I had read about chicken feet being rich in glucosamine, and stopped the commercial supplements, and i toss him chicken feet. I have notices no difference between giving him the chicken feet and the commercial glucosamine tabs, but I DID notice a difference when he went from no supplements onto glucosamine. The chicken feet are working just as well, and he definately enjoys them, and I feel better about it.

At natalie's recommendation, I supplemented Annie with vitamin C when she got oral warts as a puppy, too. They cleared up within a week. She didn't have too many, maybe 6 or so, but one was on her lip, under her nose, and huge- about the size of a dime. I really didn't think that vitamin C would clear it up, especially not as fast as it did... but it worked. I'm convinced it was the vitamin C because when Grissom has warts, I let them run their course, and they did go away, but it took months, and they shrunk very slowly. With Annie, it was a week and they literally showed signs of shrinking overnight.

 

[DaneMama]

Maybe because vitamin C is not effective for papilomas?

Not documented and tested in clinical trials. But if it worked for many people that suggested it before then it might be in some cases.

It's like the people who like to use homeopathy. They give their dog a "remedy" and the dog gets better and they swear it was the "remedy" that made them well. A large percentage of the time, whatever is wrong with any living being will clear up on its own even if nothing is done. That principle is what keeps homeopaths in business.

It's the same as if you got a bruise on your arm. I tell you to stand on your head for 3 minutes, stand up and turn in circles clockwise 3 times, turn counter clockwise 3 times then say "amen" 3 times and your bruise will be gone in 3 days. If your bruise is no longer there in 3 days am I a miracle healer? :smile:

Homeopathy is a sketchy subject but I do believe that is it IS effective for some things in some situations. There just isn't the "proof" that it works like some things with traditional medicine.

Giving vitamin C worked for Akasha and getting rid of her papillomas, as well as countless others, and I will continue to stand by that and recommend it to others. I don't see whats wrong with that. The fact that they kept getting worse and worse but as soon as I gave her vitamin C they went away within days.

 

[CorgiPaws]

Maybe because vitamin C is not effective for papilomas?

Prove it. :biggrin:
My personal experience is far more valuable to me than any claim made by an individual, vet, or "clinical trial" so since my personal first hand experience says it works, I'm going to stick to it, and recommend it to others who are having the same problems.
Vitamin C does NOT directly effect a papiloma in the sense that it can not cure a virus. However, it can give the boost the immune system needs to quickly and effectively fight the virus.

It's the same as if you got a bruise on your arm. I tell you to stand on your head for 3 minutes, stand up and turn in circles clockwise 3 times, turn counter clockwise 3 times then say "amen" 3 times and your bruise will be gone in 3 days. If your bruise is no longer there in 3 days am I a miracle healer? :smile:

If I have one dog not supplemented with Vitamin C and he takes months to beat the papilomas, and then another dog, who is supplemented with vitamin C and they disappear within a week, i'm going to say it worked, and not just luck. Papilomas can of course run their course, no one is claiming otherwise. They are just notorious for taking a really long time.

Giving vitamin C worked for Akasha and getting rid of her papillomas, as well as countless others, and I will continue to stand by that and recommend it to others. I don't see whats wrong with that. The fact that they kept getting worse and worse but as soon as I gave her vitamin C they went away within days.

^^^ditto. :wink:

 

[DaneMama]

***Moved "tripe" related posts to another thread so this one stays on track***

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/3062-tripe.html

 

[jdatwood]

If you believe it then you SHOULD recommend it. I believe it is a placebo. :smile:

If you'd been here watching them grow & spread you would feel otherwise :wink:

I'd bet $1k had you been here dealing with them taking over her throat and mouth and observed the results from 2 days of Vit C you'd be a BIG advocate of it....

 

[DaneMama]

If you have 100 papiloma dogs that you supplement and 100 papiloma dogs that you don't then MAYBE you might be able to prove something.

But that's the thing Bill....I have seen a *huge* number of people post up saying that supplementing with vitamin C in the case of papilloma infested dogs have wonderful success with it (I don't know exactly how many people but it was enough to be more than just a coincidence). Just like with all the people who feed raw...shout if from the rooftops because it works. Supplementing with vitamin C in most cases does the trick. That is what we have been trying to get through to you.

 

[jdatwood]

If you have 100 papiloma dogs that you supplement and 100 papiloma dogs that you don't then MAYBE you might be able to prove something.

Bring me 200 dogs with papilomas and I'd be happy to do the field study :wink:

I stand by my statements and results. You weren't there so you can only theorize that it was simply a placebo effect

Could it be a complete coincidence that they went away as soon as I started supplementing with Vit C? YES

Is it likely? NO

Why? Because of how intense her infection was and how rapidly it continued to spread

 

[CorgiPaws]

If you have 100 papiloma dogs that you supplement and 100 papiloma dogs that you don't then MAYBE you might be able to prove something.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. You weren't there. I was. I saw it work. I saw two or three papilomas pop up in her mouth per day for a few days straight, one growing rapidly under her nose. I saw them shrink overnight the day I started using Vitamin C.

I don't need to know the results of 200 dogs with papilomas. The only ones I'm concerned about are the ones in my house, and I already know the results of that. :wink:

It worked for Annie. That's enough for me. :biggrin:

ETA: Show me proof it does not work, until then, I'll go with my firsthand experience.

 

[jdatwood]

Thats not a lot of support for the theory that vitamin C cures papilloma virus.

Nobody ever said it cured it genius

You sure do LOVE trying to be right huh Bill?

and while I know you're kidding about me "agreeing with Natalie" I take offense to it. It's nothing but a BS comment. FYI, I was the one that decided to supplement with the Vitamin C to help rid Akasha of her puppy warts.

Try acting more like a moderator please and not a bully

I just Googled papilloma dog

Problem is, websites rank according to search terms in Google. NOBODY is going to search for "papilloma dog" if they're searching for alternative treatments

They however might search for

"puppy warts treatment"
"dog warts supplement"
"dog papilloma treatment"

I could go on and on but I hope you get the idea here... :wink:

There's hundreds of testimonials for Vitamin C helping with puppy warts all over Google if you know HOW to find them :biggrin:

Here's a few
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=puppy+warts+vitamin+c
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=dog+papilloma+vitamin+c&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=