[DaneMama]

Natalie: This is a subject for another thread if you want to persue it but booster shots don't really boost anything. You give a series of vaccinations for reasons that have to do with mother's immunity still being in the puppy's body for an undertermined period of time. If you knew the exact moment the mother's immunity was no longer in the puppy's body, one vaccination is all that's needed.

Ok...started a new thread...so the other one wouldn't be thread jacked LOL

If the mother's immunity is up (vaccinated as an adult), the puppies get her immunity through her milk. When they are weaned from her milk they don't have enough antibodies to stay safe from parvovirus, parainfluenza, hepatitis, and distemper until the age of 16 weeks, or 4 months. So they have to be boostered at 8 weeks (which is usually when puppies are completely off their mother's milk...at least by the choice of the mother LOL) to make sure they have immunity. Then boostered again and 12 weeks, because their immune systems are still not mature and able to produce enough antibodies to sustain immunity. Finally at 4 months their immune systems are mature enough to sustain immunity through adulthood.

That is why it is completely unneccesary for breeders to vaccinate before 8 weeks of age....but still so many do.

Boosters should be given once a month til 4 months of age...so one shot at 8 weeks, one at 12 weeks and the last at 16 weeks.

Puppies not boostered between the ages of 8 weeks to 16 weeks have a great risk to getting things like parvo...I have seen it countless times working at vet clinics. Its a devastating disease that most likely means death for the puppy. If puppies didn't get parvo, etc between these ages it would be worthless to give boosters. And since the parvovirus is a very hardy and is sustained in the environment...found in pretty much any ground soil...even if puppies are kept within their home environment, they are still at risk.

Like I stated in the other thread, this is what I have researched to be the most successful, and have little biased opinion pushed on me by others.

 

[RawFedDogs]

Ok...started a new thread...so the other one wouldn't be thread jacked LOL

If the mother's immunity is up (vaccinated as an adult), the puppies get her immunity through her milk.

All of what you say is partially right according to my research which includes conversations with Jean Dobbs and other immune system experts. What happens is that dogs will retain mama's immunity for a period of time after they are weaned. Those antibodies don't die off the day they stop nursing. So if a vaccination is given at 8 weeks and they probably still have mama's antibodies in their bloodstream, mama's antibodies kill the MLV (Modified Live Virus) in the vaccination and the vaccinatin was useless. It accomplished nothing. If, on the other hand, they had none of mama's antibodies present the vaccination would immunize them indefinately.

The exact same thing happens at the 12 week "booster". If the 1st didn't take and they still have mama's antibodies, the 2nd won't take either. If the first didn't take and the no longer have mama's antibodies, the 2nd will immunize them.

By 16 weeks of age almost all puppies no longer have mama's antibodies (99% of them). Sooooo .... if none of the other vaccinations "took" because of mama's antibodies, this one certainly will. By 16 weeks, the immune system has matured to the point that this vaccination will definately be good for a lifetime. There is some little controversy about taking another "booster" at one year to be sure but except for that, no more MLV type vaccinations are neccessary for the dogs life. I did not give Thor his vaccinations at 1 year. His 16 weeks vaccinations were his last. He will turn 5 in January.

I have references on this somewhere but I don't have time to look for them right now. We are leaving shortly for our Thanksgiving festivities with the family.

Boosters should be given once a month til 4 months of age...so one shot at 8 weeks, one at 12 weeks and the last at 16 weeks.

Only because you have no accurate way of knowing which "boosters" "took" and which ones didn't.

Puppies not boostered between the ages of 8 weeks to 16 weeks have a great risk to getting things like parvo...I have seen it countless times working at vet clinics.

I have also heard of parvo vaccine actually giving parvo to puppies.

Like I stated in the other thread, this is what I have researched to be the most successful, and have little biased opinion pushed on me by others.

Our methods are the same, our reasons differ. :smile:

 

[HarleyandRoscoesMom]

Ok so I have always had to give all my pups 3 sets of vaccines when I got them I rescued a pit early this year and found her a great home but the shelter had me do 2 boosters she was 2yrs old...was this necessary....I mean she was 2 and came from a good home but they had to move to germany so couldnt take her with them...I also got Roscoe from the same shelter he is between 5-6 mths old and they are wanting me to get a 3rd booster does this do anything for him??? Im not concerned about the cost it was included in the adoption just curious as to if its necessary to load the pups with all the extra vaccines...Harley is 5 mths now and we somehow got behind on her vaccines so she will be going to get her rabies and last booster on Monday at the animal birth control clinic because the vet onpost is backed up till next month...also Princess is due for a Rabies shot the city instructs us to give one every year...I have always thought they were good for at least a couple yrs (my dogs growing up i think got one every other year).

 

[RawFedDogs]

Ok so I have always had to give all my pups 3 sets of vaccines when I got them I rescued a pit early this year and found her a great home but the shelter had me do 2 boosters she was 2yrs old...was this necessary

Assuming their most recent vaccinations were after 16 weeks of age, no more are needed ... ever.

I also got Roscoe from the same shelter he is between 5-6 mths old and they are wanting me to get a 3rd booster does this do anything for him???

Again, assuming the most recent vaccinations were at or after 16 weeks of age, no more are needed ... ever.

Im not concerned about the cost it was included in the adoption just curious as to if its necessary to load the pups with all the extra vaccines.

Vaccines CAN and often do cause lots of problems for dogs.

Harley is 5 mths now and we somehow got behind on her vaccines so she will be going to get her rabies and last booster on Monday at the animal birth control clinic because the vet onpost is backed up till next month

Again depending on when he received his last vaccination, he doesn't need any more. Put off the Rabies vaccination as long as possible. It is the most dangerous of all the vaccines and the dog should be as mature as possible when he is given this vaccination.

also Princess is due for a Rabies shot the city instructs us to give one every year...I have always thought they were good for at least a couple yrs (my dogs growing up i think got one every other year).

The laws in most jurisdictions now call for Rabies vaccinations every 3 years. Tests have determined that Rabies vaccinations last at least 7 years and probably a lifetime. There is research going on now to determine if these vaccinations last a lifetime or exactly how long they do last.

Humans don't get yearly vaccinations of any kind.

 

[HarleyandRoscoesMom]

Roscoe just had his 2nd set on the 9th so yes he was over 16 weeks but like I mentioned before he was a rescue from a shelter and they already gave him his rabies the day I picked him up : ( I didnt have a say so they make you do it if you get them from the shelter..I am just wondering if I can just tell them I would prefer not to get the last booster shot and explain to them of my concerns

Also should I put Harleys Rabies shot off till later on??? She is 5 mths today.
Princess had one in November of last year

 

[RawFedDogs]

Roscoe just had his 2nd set on the 9th so yes he was over 16 weeks but like I mentioned before he was a rescue from a shelter and they already gave him his rabies the day I picked him up

A lot of shelters are like that. You can't really do anything about that.

I am just wondering if I can just tell them I would prefer not to get the last booster shot and explain to them of my concerns

If it were me, I'd just not bring it up at all and not get the shots.

Also should I put Harleys Rabies shot off till later on??? She is 5 mths today. Princess had one in November of last year

I don't know what the legal requirements are in your location. I rarely pay attention to those requirements but I'm not going to advise you to do that. I can advise you to put it off as long as legally possible and maybe cheat another month or two. :smile:

 

[HarleyandRoscoesMom]

Thank you so much for your input I actually just came home from a terrible vet interview...I was so disturbed at how set they were in their own ways that I told them that I will definatly not be going to them for any services...so I am going to wait for princess to get her next rabies shot they said if she does get picked up which she wont they will fine me but owell shes to fast for the city anyways lol plus shes always supervised outdoors!!!

 

[malluver1005]

Do dogs need the rabies shot all their lives? I've heard that after they are a certain amount of years old, it's not necessary because it's such a potent vaccine and hard for their immune system...

 

[HarleyandRoscoesMom]

Do dogs need the rabies shot all their lives? I've heard that after they are a certain amount of years old, it's not necessary because it's such a potent vaccine and hard for their immune system...

Well if it was up to the vets and cities it is by law suppose to be given every year even though the vaccine they give is a 3 yr vaccine.....and they dont think that it will harm them to have to many (freakin idiots) sorry had a fight with the vet today LOL

 

[DaneMama]

Puppies are usually weaned by six weeks of age, I had to force Bailey to nurse her puppies starting at 5 weeks. So a booster at 8 weeks is still an ok time to vaccinate. How are you to know if the puppy has enough antibodies still around at 8 and 12 weeks of age? Doing a titer? That gives you info about their immunity, but every dog is different and so there are no standards that say a certain level of antibodies means immunity for that particular dog. Just having one lonely antibody is not enough for a dog to have full immunity to a disease.

IMO based on first hand experience, is that it is far more likely that a puppy will get sick if not vaccinated. It was a daily occurance at the hospital I interned at for an entire year, and I was only there for 2 days out of the week. Most of those puppies ended up dying, because they weren't vaccinated

IF is just far too risky for me to hold faith in. Reactions to vaccines are very rare, and most of the time cause nothing but hives. Older dogs are definitely at a higher risk, and that is why I wont ever vaccinate my dogs past about 7 (I plan to give a last round of vaccines at that point). To me the slim risk of a bad reaction to a vaccine is much less of an issue for me. I would rather be safe than sorry. I've seen enough puppies die a horrible, painful death than anyone would care to see.

I would definitely play it safe and have any puppy boostered at 8, 12 and 16 weeks. After that, be very sparing with vaccinations. If adopting a dog from a shelter, it is also best to be safe than sorry, and just get them vaccinated. You do not know where they came from and if they have even been vaccinated, trust me...you can't trust the word of anyone when it comes to vaccination histories. If is just too much of a risk to not just get it done. There are no cures for some of the diseases that the vaccine covers. Are you willing to watch your dog suffer and then be put down because there is nothing to be done? Just Finish their schedule until they have an annual, which in reality will last longer than a year (rabies up to 7 years).

ETA: Shelters give a rabies vaccination because of legal reasons. It is required by law, at least in most areas, that they be vaccinated against rabies before they go to their new homes. Because the US is not a rabies free country, vaccination is essential to prevent the spread. Like I posted earlier a rabies vaccination should be good for at least 7 years.

 

[malluver1005]

Aspen's 4 and just got his three year rabies about a month ago. Does he still need it every three years for the rest of his life?

 

[DaneMama]

Do dogs need the rabies shot all their lives? I've heard that after they are a certain amount of years old, it's not necessary because it's such a potent vaccine and hard for their immune system...

I wouldn't ever vaccinate an older dog...most likely they have immunity and the risks of bad reactions go up. I plan to vaccinate my dogs again around the age of 7, and that's it.

 

[DaneMama]

Aspen's 4 and just got his three year rabies about a month ago. Does he still need it every three years for the rest of his life?

Rabies vaccines are known to last up to 7 years...so no. I wouldn't vaccinate him every three years if I were you. I would say that is probably the last rabies he will ever need :biggrin:

 

[HarleyandRoscoesMom]

Puppies are usually weaned by six weeks of age, I had to force Bailey to nurse her puppies starting at 5 weeks. So a booster at 8 weeks is still an ok time to vaccinate. How are you to know if the puppy has enough antibodies still around at 8 and 12 weeks of age? Doing a titer? That gives you info about their immunity, but every dog is different and so there are no standards that say a certain level of antibodies means immunity for that particular dog. Just having one lonely antibody is not enough for a dog to have full immunity to a disease.

IMO based on first hand experience, is that it is far more likely that a puppy will get sick if not vaccinated. It was a daily occurance at the hospital I interned at for an entire year, and I was only there for 2 days out of the week. Most of those puppies ended up dying, because they weren't vaccinated

IF is just far too risky for me to hold faith in. Reactions to vaccines are very rare, and most of the time cause nothing but hives. Older dogs are definitely at a higher risk, and that is why I wont ever vaccinate my dogs past about 7 (I plan to give a last round of vaccines at that point). To me the slim risk of a bad reaction to a vaccine is much less of an issue for me. I would rather be safe than sorry. I've seen enough puppies die a horrible, painful death than anyone would care to see.

I would definitely play it safe and have any puppy boostered at 8, 12 and 16 weeks. After that, be very sparing with vaccinations. If adopting a dog from a shelter, it is also best to be safe than sorry, and just get them vaccinated. You do not know where they came from and if they have even been vaccinated, trust me...you can't trust the word of anyone when it comes to vaccination histories. If is just too much of a risk to not just get it done. There are no cures for some of the diseases that the vaccine covers. Are you willing to watch your dog suffer and then be put down because there is nothing to be done? Just Finish their schedule until they have an annual, which in reality will last longer than a year (rabies up to 7 years).

ETA: Shelters give a rabies vaccination because of legal reasons. It is required by law, at least in most areas, that they be vaccinated against rabies before they go to their new homes. Because the US is not a rabies free country, vaccination is essential to prevent the spread. Like I posted earlier a rabies vaccination should be good for at least 7 years.

I will definatly finish the reg vaccinations because I would rather have a allergic reaction than to see them suffer!!! The county I live in says I have to give a Rabies vaccine every year even tho they give a 3yr vaccine or I will be fined if ever they got out and the city picked them up....

 

[DaneMama]

I will definatly finish the reg vaccinations because I would rather have a allergic reaction than to see them suffer!!! The county I live in says I have to give a Rabies vaccine every year even tho they give a 3yr vaccine or I will be fined if ever they got out and the city picked them up....

Allergic reactions are the most common reaction, but there are more serious ones but are very rare. I have only seen 2 allergic reactions, which were nothing but hives. Gave the dog some benadry and all was fine.

With being in the vet industry for about 3 years, relatively short in the grand scheme of things, I have yet to see a serious life threatening or even deadly reaction to a vaccine. Or have heard of any...

How many cases of parvo or distemper have I seen in those 3 years??? More than I care to remember.

That is where I am basing my opinions and recommendations on.

We have the same laws here too. But we rarely follow the rules. We have 3 dogs over the legal limit here. We never use leashes, all the dogs are under voice control 99% of the time. I would be fined if we were caught doing any of those things. As of right now we are legal in the rabies department, but that will soon expire...and I don't think that I will do much about it :biggrin:

 

[RawFedDogs]

How are you to know if the puppy has enough antibodies still around at 8 and 12 weeks of age? Doing a titer?

Contrary to popular belief, titers is not a measure of immunity(1). I can tell you have experience in a vet's office. :smile:

IMO based on first hand experience, is that it is far more likely that a puppy will get sick if not vaccinated. It was a daily occurance at the hospital I interned at for an entire year, and I was only there for 2 days out of the week. Most of those puppies ended up dying, because they weren't vaccinated

Based on posts from a couple of vaccination boards, it is rare that a puppy will get sick if no immunized. I know of a couple of boards where the people on that board NEVER vaccinate their puppies and don't have the problems vaccinated dogs do. These people's dogs seem to be very healthy.

IF is just far too risky for me to hold faith in. Reactions to vaccines are very rare, and most of the time cause nothing but hives.

You are correct in the type of reactions you are talking about and most vets think about. Long term problems are very pervasive in todays animal world. Things like behavior problems, allergies, other immune system problems, ear and skin conditions, heart problems, liver problems, pancreas problems can all be traced back to vaccinations. 75% of the dogs a vet sees, he sees within 3 months of the dog being vaccinated. That should say something. Reactions to vaccines is much more than just the hives or an injection site tumor a week or so after the vaccination. Most problems don't show up for a long time.(2)

Older dogs are definitely at a higher risk, and that is why I wont ever vaccinate my dogs past about 7 (I plan to give a last round of vaccines at that point).

I never vaccinate a dog after his round of puppy shots. My 5yo Thor hasn't been vaccinated since his puppy shots. 9 1/2 yo Abby hasn't been vaccinated in 6 years.

To me the slim risk of a bad reaction to a vaccine is much less of an issue for me. I would rather be safe than sorry. I've seen enough puppies die a horrible, painful death than anyone would care to see.

It's not a slim risk. It's a very great risk of damage. You see, bombarding the immune system with 7 different diseases all at once is much more than it was designed to handle. A dog would never get exposure like that in the wild. An immune system can be severly damaged with such an onslaught of viruses all at the same time.

I would definitely play it safe and have any puppy boostered at 8, 12 and 16 weeks.

I agree.

After that, be very sparing with vaccinations.

After that, no vaccinations.

If adopting a dog from a shelter, it is also best to be safe than sorry, and just get them vaccinated.

Depends on the dog's age.

If is just too much of a risk to not just get it done.

Problem is that vet's vaccinate against diseases that aren't even present in a particular part of the country. Some of the vaccinations are against diseases that are nothing more than a cold and don't do any harm anyway. Bordetella shots should be outlawed.

Just Finish their schedule until they have an annual, which in reality will last longer than a year (rabies up to 7 years).

Not "up to 7 years" rather, "at least 7 years probably a lifetime".

(1) Titers
(2) Pet vaccination warning. Severe adverse reaction to immunization

ETA: Also see: http://www.xceldanes.com/vaccinosis.htm and Google Dr. Jean Dodds and read all you can by her.

ETA again: One of our members is also doing great work on Rabies vaccinations:
Kris L. Christine
THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
www.RabiesChallengeFund.org

 

[malluver1005]

RFD, you say you never vaccinate your dogs after their round of puppy shots. Is this just for the rabies or all vaccines...?

 

[HarleyandRoscoesMom]

RFD I am very concerned about this whole vaccine thing...how will I be able to take my dogs to the vet for any surgery...Roscoe has an umbilical hernia that needs to be repaired its not a bad one and doesnt bother him but we were just going to get it taken care of when he gets fixed and all the vets I have been to have told me he will have to get the kennel couch vaccine which I dont believe in....I dont give my human family the flu shot or any extra vaccines that are optional for school and limit antibiotic for the reason that Imo even the human body has to build its own immunity(and my kids have never been any sicker than a common cold..my 7yr old has never even had a cold and I believe this is because I let them build immunity when my friends medicate for everything and her kids not even in school get sick on a month to month basis....so in theory I would think a dog can build immunity also if given a chance....and as for the rabies the vet told me because of the area we are in the animals need it every year because of skunks and other animals around have it...my animals are mainly indoors except to go for walks and do there buisness so I would rather not get them every year but by law I suppose I have to as long as im in the state of OK..pretty much I hit a brick wall...r there vets out there that dont require all the extra vaccines before doing anything with dogs??

 

[RawFedDogs]

RFD I am very concerned about this whole vaccine thing...how will I be able to take my dogs to the vet for any surgery...Roscoe has an umbilical hernia that needs to be repaired its not a bad one and doesnt bother him but we were just going to get it taken care of when he gets fixed and all the vets I have been to have told me he will have to get the kennel couch vaccine which I dont believe in

My vet says he won't guarantee my dogs won't get bordetella (kennel cough) if I don't vaccinate them and they stay in his place but he doesn't require it. So search around. I interviewed about half a dozen vets last time I was looking for one and got all that stuff straight with him before I took my dogs the first time. He knows I don't vaccinate and I feed raw. The bordetella vaccine is more dangerous to your dog than the disease its supposed to protect him from. Like the flu, there are many strains of bordetella and the vaccine only protects against a few of them.

I dont give my human family the flu shot or any extra vaccines that are optional for school and limit antibiotic for the reason that Imo even the human body has to build its own immunity(and my kids have never been any sicker than a common cold..my 7yr old has never even had a cold and I believe this is because I let them build immunity when my friends medicate for everything and her kids not even in school get sick on a month to month basis....so in theory I would think a dog can build immunity also if given a chance

We are in total agreement about that. I don't vaccinate myself or my dogs.

and as for the rabies the vet told me because of the area we are in the animals need it every year because of skunks and other animals around have it

He's full of it. He is just trying to sell you an unneeded vaccination. The vacinne is a 3 year vaccine and giving it every year doesn't increase immunity in the least. I live in the country and there are many wild animals on my property but I don't vaccinate at all and am not worried. My dogs were vaccinated as puppies and are immune to those diseases they were vaccinated against.

my animals are mainly indoors except to go for walks and do there buisness so I would rather not get them every year but by law I suppose I have to as long as im in the state of OK

Don't get them every year. In most states, and I bet OK is one of them that the law only requires rabies vaccinations. None of the others are required by law anywhere that I'm aware of.

You should be able to find a vet that will abide by your wishes. I would think that in times like we are living in now, they would be more willing than ever to please their customers.

pretty much I hit a brick wall...r there vets out there that dont require all the extra vaccines before doing anything with dogs??

The brick wall you are up against is that vets make money on the vaccinations and they are trying to maximize profits by requiring you get them for your dogs. Find out if rabies is the only vaccination required by law then tell the vet not to give any other.

 

[RawFedDogs]

RFD, you say you never vaccinate your dogs after their round of puppy shots. Is this just for the rabies or all vaccines...?

I can't say that I don't vaccinate for rabies. That would be against the law. I definately am not afraid to say I don't vaccinate for anything else after the puppy shots. I know my dogs are immune to all the things they were vaccinated against.