Dog Food Chat banner

41 - 60 of 173 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,854 Posts
1) If you had the slightest knowledge of nutrition you knew where to look up the amounts of protein these two plant ingredients contain. I shouldn't have to provide you with any science since it's public knowledge available in plain sight on the net.

2) Beet pulp as used in dog food is a source of dietary fiber and does not contain any sugar, nor is a filler. A filler is an ingredient who serves no purpose what-so-ever. Do you understand what a dietary fiber is? Beet pulp is partly fermentable vegetable fiber and is a source of food for existing bacteria in the gut. These desirable bacteria colonies need stuff to eat and that is exactly what beet pulp provides. Beet pulp (and other sources of dietary fiber) is an essential part of good digestion and enhance growth of beneficial bacteria. Google it. I'll provide links as soon as I say something remotely controversial.

I disagree on two points you made.

1. Beet pulp does not contain "no sugar". It contains less sugar than Beets themselves, which are high in sugar.
2. Beet pulp is absolutely not essential to good digestion. I don't eat it and my dogs don't eat it and we have iron stomachs. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Cavepaws, I may have been one of the ones you reference who has done recreational mushing and some weight pulling. My issue with our other sled dog food related person(s) was pontificating about the results of a certain racers teams and the Annamaet formulas they hawked without any open mind to other foods. That same person, or persons was also the one who hawked corn to the nth degree. Truthdog and all the other names the person or persons used made me nuts with those posts putting down all kinds of other kibble other than Abady and Annamaet. I have not been around to see all of the Dr. Tim posts so I have no clue what I am talking about in that regard, so will not comment other than to say that I have heard some good things about some of Dr. Tim's formulas. I have never been one who wanted to run long races, preferring to go out for recreation, fun, and maybe put in 12-15 miles a week over the years. We ran on average 3/4 days a week when we ran our sibes. I know people who feed some of Dr. Tims forumlas, I will have to ask them if they add to it during extreme situations. We never fed Dr. Tims as it was developing back when we were running, but we did add meat and fat under extreme conditions to what we were feeding at the time. I have to honestly look at Dr. Tims formulas to see whether I would think that would be necessary if we were running again, and I'd have to judge that on how my dogs were looking. However, with my senior guys at this point I'll continue with some raw meaty bones, FROMM, Acana and cooking. If you guys test these formulas out I would be curious about the results for future knowledge. I will also ask a few people I know who do feed Dr Tims formulas how they are feeling about the food. May even wander over to Sleddogcentral again and see if there is any input there. My curiosity just got the best of me. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
@heat; You are in no position to tell how "large" part it is. 3% to 5% could still be number 4 on the list. Point is you do not know, end of story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
1) If you had the slightest knowledge of nutrition you knew where to look up the amounts of protein these two plant ingredients contain. I shouldn't have to provide you with any science since it's public knowledge available in plain sight on the net.

2) Beet pulp as used in dog food is a source of dietary fiber and does not contain any sugar, nor is a filler. A filler is an ingredient who serves no purpose what-so-ever. Do you understand what a dietary fiber is? Beet pulp is partly fermentable vegetable fiber and is a source of food for existing bacteria in the gut. These desirable bacteria colonies need stuff to eat and that is exactly what beet pulp provides. Beet pulp (and other sources of dietary fiber) is an essential part of good digestion and enhance growth of beneficial bacteria. Google it. I'll provide links as soon as I say something remotely controversial.

Two posts and no backing of anything smells like trolling to me.
Really? I guess I should start adding it to my raw diet then. If it's that essential.

Stop throwing the troll word out there, when the heck did anyone say anything rude to you? I have shared my opinion on a product. You are acting like I kicked your dog or something. Jeeze.

The point still stand that per the ingredient listing it isn't a premium food. Maybe there is some insane amount of chicken meal, but you need to remember that by definition Chicken meal is not comprised of muscle meat, it is the left over connective tissues, bones and small amount of muscle meat AFTER all meat is removed for human consumption. That is also available for public knowledge, go ahead and google it.

I would have no problem with beet pulp if it weren't located as the fourth ingredient. Plenty of companies use beet pulp for fiber and don't have it that high on the list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
I guess...It's just speculation? I know more about kibble than raw right now. I just work for a company and know a tiny itty bit about the kibbles out there and their make up. I would guess you would look at the fiber content, which is fairly low; explains why the the beet pulp is low on the list. It isn't as abundant as other ingredients like Proteins and Fats. So perhaps a filler? Idk, I hate non-transparency...so perhaps someone from Tim's posse will answer the question. Most kibble companies blow anyway. JMO.

edit: Meant to say I know more about raw than kibble right now. ;)
The only ones with true fillers among premium and super premium brands are the ones with excessive amounts of minerals. Beet pulp is not a filler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
Really? I guess I should start adding it to my raw diet then. If it's that essential.

Stop throwing the troll word out there, when the heck did anyone say anything rude to you? I have shared my opinion on a product. You are acting like I kicked your dog or something. Jeeze.

The point still stand that per the ingredient listing it isn't a premium food. Maybe there is some insane amount of chicken meal, but you need to remember that by definition Chicken meal is not comprised of muscle meat, it is the left over connective tissues, bones and small amount of muscle meat AFTER all meat is removed for human consumption. That is also available for public knowledge, go ahead and google it.

I would have no problem with beet pulp if it weren't located as the fourth ingredient. Plenty of companies use beet pulp for fiber and don't have it that high on the list.
There you go. A raw feeder who wants to get two cents heard in the kibble section. What's new under the sun. You still don't understand that the order of ingredients on a label is of limited value when evaluating a food. Provide us with an individual distribution you know to be correct and then we can talk. Also, so you are claiming Dr. Tim's meals are of low quality and digestibility?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
I can't see how it would be used for fiber that high up on the list of ingredients - if it were fiber it wouldn't be comprised as a large part of the formula. This suggests a filler IMO.
If your thinking is correct stools from dogs eating Dr. Tim's food would be humongous! We are talking Guinness book of records huge :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Would bone meal be such a bad thing for fiber?

Just curious. It would be more species appropriate for stool firming IMO
Bone meal is an amazing source of fiber. I've used it if I an feeding an especially organ dense meal, keeps theguys stool solid. And its fully digestible :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
YYou have no unbiased data supporting your claims.
Yes I do, for ever tiny little thing I say. An entire world of science, peer reviewed studies, trials and real life uses and tests. If I don't have any exact data on what-ever I am talking about I look at what real life and real use cases are telling me and apply common sense. Give me something controversial I have said or claimed and I will give you all the background data I have. Don't be shy. However, for some raw feeders here everything is controversial. It's 2012 and defending beet pulp to some is getting old really fast. If you are one of those extremists, don't even bother. I am not going to waste time on defending and justifying what 90% of the world regards as uncontroversial science and knowledge. Just as I don't bother anymore with jumping into a cpl of other sections here where i see outrageous claims and advice happen multiple times per day.

Anyways, I shouldn't have to back up anything, you are the one who jumped in here with no posts and literally claiming Dr. Tim's is crap containing huge amounts of plant protein. No qualification of your claims what-so-ever. You have been asked several times but you still haven't provided any meat on the bone, no pun intended. Others have tried to tell you the reason why your statements and opinions re. this food are way off, you haven't qualified you statements in any way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
Bone meal is an amazing source of fiber. I've used it if I an feeding an especially organ dense meal, keeps theguys stool solid. And its fully digestible :)
An amazing source of fiber and fully digestible? Really? Actually... I don't care because it doesn't belong in a dry/canned/kibble discussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
You are so defensive. It's funny, because you have spent all this time attacking me and all I have asked is for evidence, which you still haven't posted. I have yet to. All you names or call you ignorant. Why can't you just be civil. Jeeze, it's just kibble.
Fwiw, I don't think number of posts has anything to do with intelligence. I have been on various other forums and thought this would be a great one to join as well.

Thanks for the welcome
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,796 Posts
Mheath - the kibble area has always been defensive. I would love to see more pics of your dogs and see you post on the raw section or health. Looking forward to reading more from you. :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
22 Posts
Maybe the kibble section is defensive because raw is just so much more superior to kibble and deep down we feel guilt for inferior feeding practices \sarcasm.
Daviking seems to be pretty well versed and educated in what he/she is talking about. In previous threads he/she has given many links to prove his/her claims. The only links I've seen go towards raw is rawfed.com which is purely anecdotal.
Liz is correct however- if you want to discuss raw there is an appropriate section for it.
I would try dr Tim's if I had it more easily available. No harm in trying it!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
939 Posts
Chicken meal is labeled first and that is great - but how can you prove that those veggie proteins aren't the majority of the product since they are one after the other. Not to mention, Beet pulp is a known sugary filler. Please tell me why these are beneficial and how I am a troll? You have not given ANY scientifically backed data about the formula - you have has hearsay.
Heath, you clearly don't know what you are talking about. You think you know what you are talking about because you use the same approach of many novices on dog food forums. If you use simple math and assume potatoes and field peas have about 5% protein you can calculate yourself that in the Dr. Tim's GF of the 32% GA Protein, about 30% (92%) is from animal sources. If potato and field peas are 5% protin and represent, say 20% of the weight, that means the contribution to protein is 1%. Get it???

Go look at Earthborn, Fromm, Nutrisource and calculate the impact of 'pea protein' at 95% protein. If they use that stuff at 15% of weight then 14% of the GA protein is from vegetable sources. So if you see a GF with 30% protein that contains "pea protein" about 50% is vegetable.

There are 7 sources of CONCENTRATED ANIMAL PROTEIN in that Dr. Tim's GF. Where they show up on the label doesn't mean a thing unless you know the weights of each. One good example is Whole Dried Egg. This form of egg is extremely light in weight but has enormous amounts of protein.

Please stop with your Dog Park Analytics. Also, beet pulp has no sugar. Tomato Pomace is often used to appease label readers like you and that in fact has tons of sugar.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
939 Posts
You are so defensive. It's funny, because you have spent all this time attacking me and all I have asked is for evidence, which you still haven't posted. I have yet to. All you names or call you ignorant. Why can't you just be civil. Jeeze, it's just kibble.
Fwiw, I don't think number of posts has anything to do with intelligence. I have been on various other forums and thought this would be a great one to join as well.

Thanks for the welcome
Don't you work for another food company? Yes?????
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
939 Posts
Cavepaws, I may have been one of the ones you reference who has done recreational mushing and some weight pulling. My issue with our other sled dog food related person(s) was pontificating about the results of a certain racers teams and the Annamaet formulas they hawked without any open mind to other foods. That same person, or persons was also the one who hawked corn to the nth degree. Truthdog and all the other names the person or persons used made me nuts with those posts putting down all kinds of other kibble other than Abady and Annamaet. I have not been around to see all of the Dr. Tim posts so I have no clue what I am talking about in that regard, so will not comment other than to say that I have heard some good things about some of Dr. Tim's formulas. I have never been one who wanted to run long races, preferring to go out for recreation, fun, and maybe put in 12-15 miles a week over the years. We ran on average 3/4 days a week when we ran our sibes. I know people who feed some of Dr. Tims forumlas, I will have to ask them if they add to it during extreme situations. We never fed Dr. Tims as it was developing back when we were running, but we did add meat and fat under extreme conditions to what we were feeding at the time. I have to honestly look at Dr. Tims formulas to see whether I would think that would be necessary if we were running again, and I'd have to judge that on how my dogs were looking. However, with my senior guys at this point I'll continue with some raw meaty bones, FROMM, Acana and cooking. If you guys test these formulas out I would be curious about the results for future knowledge. I will also ask a few people I know who do feed Dr Tims formulas how they are feeling about the food. May even wander over to Sleddogcentral again and see if there is any input there. My curiosity just got the best of me. lol
The Dr. Tim's formulas have expanded in use from the hard core mushers to show, agility and hunting people. Not everyone has to be Joe Henderson that takes Malamutes on 100 day trips to the Arctic on Dr. Tim's.
 
41 - 60 of 173 Posts
Top