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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

I just wanted to food opinions for you food guru's on here! :)

I have a 13 month old boxer, and a 15 WEEK old English Mastiff puppy.

I've been feeding them Kirkland Chicken and Rice adult formula pretty much there whole lives. The mastiff pup isn't doing as great as I'd hoped for him to be doing on it. He's got itchy skin in certain area's, lots of eye boogers, and incosistent stools (most of the time hard, but runny at times).

So, with that said.. I want to switch foods. Obviously, the lower the cost, the BETTER, but I know that if I want to feed a really good quality food, that probably aint gunna happen. I'd like to keep it under $50 for a large bag though.

Now, I've been going back and forth between two formula's.

Blue Buffalo Life Protection Fish and Sweet Potato Adult

Deboned Whitefish, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground Barley, Menhaden Fish Meal, Oatmeal, Canola Oil (naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Tomato Pomace (natural source of Lycopene), Whole Sweet Potatoes, Natural Fish Flavor, Whole Potatoes, Peas, Whole Carrots, Blueberries, Cranberries, Flaxseed (natural source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids), Barley Grass, Dried Parsley, Garlic, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Kelp, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Carnitine, L-Lysine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Turmeric, Sunflower Oil (natural source of Omega 6 Fatty Acids), Chicken Fat (naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Dried Chicory Root, Oil of Rosemary, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), d-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Choline Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Salt, Caramel, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium.


Crude Protein (min) 22.0%, Crude Fat (min) 12.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 4.0%, Moisture (max) 10.0%, Calcium (min) 1.0%, Phosphorus (min) 0.90%

440 cal/cup.

The protein, fat, calcium, and phos. is perfect I believe. And its a bit higher calorie's, so I'll be able to feed less.

Fromm Large Breed Adult Gold

Duck, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, White Rice, Tomato Pomace, Whole Egg, Menhaden Fish Meal, Lamb, Potato, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Cheese, Salmon Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Lecithin, Chicken Cartilage, Calcium Sulfate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Longum, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcous Faecium, Vitamin A, D3, E, B12 Supplements, Choline Chloride, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sorbic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite

Protein 23% Min - Fat 12% Min - Fiber 3.5% Max - Moisture 10% Max - Ash 6.5% Max - Omega 6 Fatty Acids 1.9% Min - Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.3% Min Calcium 1.2% - Phosphorus 1.0%

380 cal/cup

Everything looks perfect in this formula as well!

So, I'm not entirely sure what to do now.

What do you guys think?

Also, are there any other foods that you guys would reccomend? I've done tons of research for over a year now, and its still super hard to try and decide on a food.

The food has to be fairly low on calcium/phosphorous since my English mastiff puppy is growing rapidly. I want a food that will allow him to grow nice and slow for proper joint/bone development.

Thanks guys!
Adrian
 

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You'll probably get a lot of recommendations for Orijen large breed puppy. Quite a few of us have raised puppies on it. My current boy is still eating it at 2 years old, just because he prefers the taste of it over the adult forumula. It is a very high meat content food, is expensive, but they eat significantly less of it per day so the cost usually even's out over the long run. For an example, my 75 pound dog eats 2 cups of food per day on this food, so a 50 pound bag will last me quite awhile.

Here are the calcium / phosperous ratios :
Calcium (min.) 1.5%
Calcium (max.) 1.7%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.1%
Phosphorus (max.) 1.3%

And the Ingredients list:


INGREDIENTS
Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh deboned lake whitefish, fresh deboned walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh deboned turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That food has 42% protein! That's incredibly high. I know there is much debate about wether or not a high protein food affects growth development. I know its mostly all about the calcium/phosphorous level, but I'm just not to sure I feel comfortable feeding a giant breed puppy a food that has that high of protein.

Also, its CRAZY expensive. Its a pretty much out of my budget, unfortunately. I wish I could feed my dogs that, since its top quality food, but I simply can't afford that. :(

Thanks for the suggestion though! I really appreciate it. :)
 

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Hi
Orijen, Acana, and The Honest Kitchen do cost more up front, but you use much less as they don't have as many crummy fillers..In the end, I feel the prices are very close between the better foods and the less expensive crummy foods..

I too fed Blue Buffalo until the recalls 3-4 years ago..

That's when I started to really learn more about pet foods and pet nutrition and DECEITFUL pet food advertising..

Blue Buffalo had many products on the recall list as potential poisonous for dogs..They even denied this for quite a while...

They also do not make their own kibble. It is made in a manufacturing plant where the plant makes over 200 other brands of pet food as well..
No quality control from Blue Buffalo..no Blue Buffalo people in white Lab Coats over-seeing operations..

On their web site they proudly compare their dog food to many other dog foods.
If you look, they compare their brand to other crummy foods and not premium pet foods..

As stated in another above post..Orijen puppy..If you are worried about high protein of 42%, get one of the Acana Grain free foods, 33%, and grind it in a blender so it is more powdery for puppies and ad a little water or no-sodium chicken broth...
The Honest Kitchen Embark and Force are also great for puppies...

Ken and Wilbur
 

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It may be expensive but in the long run you won't feed as much and it has more bio available nutrients that won't just get pooped out like ones that are full of fillers and you end up feeding more of in the long run, costing you more money. Feeding a higher quality kibble doesn't always cost more money in the long run, just have to know how it works.:biggrin:
 

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Out of the two that you mentioned I would go with the Fromm. The first three ingredients in it are meat. While looking at the BB the first three ingredients are not meat, only the first. I have never fed Fromm, but have heard great things about them.

Before switching to raw, I was feeding my large breed pup (Black Russian Terrier, adult weight of ~150 pounds) Orijen Large Breed Puppy. He loved it and did really well on it (except he had huge poops :eek:). At 4 months old he was eating about 3 cups a day.....

Another thing to think about is rotating between a few different bags of kibble. Variety is key to a healthy diet. If you can't afford Orijen for a long period, maybe get a bag and feed it when you can....and then rotate when the bag is done to something more affordable. :smile:
 

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Out of your two choices, I also would go with Fromm. I have fed it, and still do at times in my rotation. One of my dogs get itchy skin from quite a few foods, but does very well on Fromm Gold. Good luck :wink:
 
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