[jeserf]

After talking with the nutritionist at our local natural store (who is also Lucy's alternate dog walker, so I know she cares about my dog's health since she's such a fan of the pooch!), it looks like a gradual shift to raw might be in order.

I know some of you aren't fans of the Primal products, but I'm going to state this now: In order to see if my dog even LIKES this form of eating before I contaminate my house, I'm going to throw a few cubes of their prepared food with her kibble at first to see how it goes (interest, end poop product, etc). I also think knowing THIS type of product works for her is important in terms of her being able to eat when others are watching her. We live in a city with very little space (I have no laundry room, no extra fridge/freezer or 'small' grocery stores with butchers). However, we DO have farmers markets where if I go for it, I could probably try to get a discount on leftovers at the end of the market. I will not feed my dog crap from the Safeway meat section. Ick.

So anyway....she's 88-90lbs, which is roughly 1.8lbs of food per day on this diet (.9 a meal and yes I have a scale).

What do I feed her? I am moderately willing to handle chicken livers, but I think in terms of organs that'd be about as far as I could go.
Do I really just throw a chicken leg in her bowl? Aren't those bones small?
In terms of amount, as long as it equals about a pound of food, does it matter what it is? If I have ground chicken because it's on sale, and some cottage cheese and an egg does that work?

She currently gets marrow bones as treats (the other treats tend to be bully sticks, but not many other treats).

I suppose my biggest question is what does her diet need to look like? I am a vegetarian without any extra space, but I have a pair of tongs I could use to toss her some food! If I know what body parts for a larger mastiff mix, I could take the list to the farmers market and see what they have or what I have to order.

a three day rotation would work best, and I really don't have access to much beyond cow, chicken, and buffalo (DC isn't a big hunting town).

Thanks in advance, and please don't send me to more links. I'm read out over these past couple of weeks!

 

[DaneMama]

Skylar, Zack, and Abby on the WEB

This is a link from RawFedDog's signature. Read through this and it will answer all the questions you have. You definitely want to start your dog on a raw diet the correct way, so you can avoid as many issues as possible.

Feel free to come back after reading it with any other questions you might have! Good luck!

There is absolutely no reason why your dog wont like a raw diet. Some dogs need to get used to eating that way, since they have pretty much no idea what to do with it. Give them time and be the pack leader when making the switch. You are in charge of what they eat, when they eat and how much. Don't create a picky eater by giving into them "not liking the food" from them not eating it at first (most likely your dog wont know what to do with it, unless its a natural :wink: ). Again, give your dog time to make the adjustment. If they at first don't eat it, don't feed them until they do.

 

[RawFedDogs]

After talking with the nutritionist at our local natural store (who is also Lucy's alternate dog walker, so I know she cares about my dog's health since she's such a fan of the pooch!), it looks like a gradual shift to raw might be in order.

Great!!!

I know some of you aren't fans of the Primal products, but I'm going to state this now: In order to see if my dog even LIKES this form of eating before I contaminate my house, I'm going to throw a few cubes of their prepared food with her kibble at first to see how it goes (interest, end poop product, etc).

YOu can do that if you are determined to but you aren't going to learn anything from it. I promise you that your dog will love a prey model raw diet. It make take a few days for her to learn to eat it but after that you will be amazed at how excited she will get when you start to put the food in her bowl. :smile: BTW: You are NOT going to contaminate your house. Hundreds of millions of people have raw fodd in their house all the time without getting contaminated.

I also think knowing THIS type of product works for her is important in terms of her being able to eat when others are watching her.

I don't see how raw food will change that. If she's ok now, she will be ok with raw.

We live in a city with very little space (I have no laundry room, no extra fridge/freezer or 'small' grocery stores with butchers). However, we DO have farmers markets where if I go for it, I could probably try to get a discount on leftovers at the end of the market. I will not feed my dog crap from the Safeway meat section. Ick.

Farmers markets are great!!! Get what you can from there. It will take you a few months to learn how to shop for your dog's raw diet. Don't get discouraged in the beginning if buying stuff seems hard. It will get easier and you will learn to get cheap food and even free food.

So anyway....she's 88-90lbs, which is roughly 1.8lbs of food per day on this diet (.9 a meal and yes I have a scale).

Yeah, but no need to be so exact. "Somewhere around 2 lbs a day" is sufficient. Feen her somewhere in the ball park of that and if she gaines weight, feed less and vice versa. You may feed a larger meal today and a smaller one tomorrow. Thats no problem. Just watch her build and feed accordingly.

What do I feed her? I am moderately willing to handle chicken livers, but I think in terms of organs that'd be about as far as I could go.

Frozen beef liver isn't real icky if its still partially frozen when you feed it. A dog that size needs chicken quarters, chicken halves, Turkey necks (try to get the whole ones before they have been cut.) Pork ribs and pork roasts are great. Frozen fish is great if you can get her to eat it. I feed my dogs canned salmon once a week. If you can beg some deer meat from hunter friends, that is the best thing you can feed. If you can find some lamb reasonably priced, it would be great. It's too expensive around here. I wouldn't feed a lot of ground meet. A couple of meals a week is ok but don't over do it.

Do I really just throw a chicken leg in her bowl?

I wouldn't feed a chicken leg to a dog that large.

In terms of amount, as long as it equals about a pound of food, does it matter what it is? If I have ground chicken because it's on sale, and some cottage cheese and an egg does that work?

You can forget the cottage cheese but yes a pound of food is a pound of food. After you feed raw for a while you won't be so anal about weight of food. You know you will feed a chicken quarter for a meal, or maybe a can of salmon plus some liver and a raw egg will be another meal. Half a Boston Butt pork roast will be another meal. You wlll soon learn how much to feed.

I suppose my biggest question is what does her diet need to look like?

It basically looks like meat, bones and organs. Animal parts. Chicken quarters, pork roasts (usually half will be a meal), a slab of pork ribs, beef roasts, a slab or half slab of beef ribs, fish, raw eggs, and any other animal part you can think of. Most any scraps from a butcher would be great.

a three day rotation would work best, and I really don't have access to much beyond cow, chicken, and buffalo (DC isn't a big hunting town).

Don't be real concerned about rotations. Buy what you can buy cheap today and feed that for a few days. Next time you go, something else may be cheap and get that. If she has chicken 3 days in a row, its no big deal. 4 or 5 days of pork? Thats ok. Just whatever you can get cheap remembering that over time she needs some variety. You don't want to feed chicken only forever but if she eats chicken 4 days a week, pork one day, fish one day thats fine. Chicken is usually the cheapest thing you can get. If ground chicken or turkey or pork or beef is on sale, get it. Its ok to mix and match also. If you want to feed some ground pork and a chicken back in one meal, thats fine.

Thanks in advance, and please don't send me to more links. I'm read out over these past couple of weeks!

There is just ONE link that you really want to see. This is about what the food looks like. There are pictures galore of all these things you can feed your dog. The link is Raw Feeding Recipes This page will more than anwser most of the questions you made in this post. :smile:

 

[Doc]

chicken and ribs

I just packed up 40 pounds of chicken backs (.23 per pound) and 40 pounds of pork spare ribs ($1.40 per pound). Make ya wanna smack your momma RFD.

My dawgs finished off all the turkey necks so I step up to pork ribs. This ain't rocket science. Well, at first it is but soon it gets so simple.

 

[jdatwood]

There is just ONE link that you really want to see. This is about what the food looks like. There are pictures galore of all these things you can feed your dog. The link is Raw Feeding Recipes This page will more than anwser most of the questions you made in this post. :smile:

That is AWESOME!!!

 

[RawFedDogs]

I just packed up 40 pounds of chicken backs (.23 per pound) and 40 pounds of pork spare ribs ($1.40 per pound). Make ya wanna smack your momma RFD.

Hehe, yeah it does. :smile: I picked up 40 lbs of chicken backs today at .35/lb. :smile:

This ain't rocket science. Well, at first it is but soon it gets so simple.

Doesn't it become real simple real fast? :smile:

 

[jeserf]

Lucy loves dairy and veggies, so like others here, I plan on giving her items low in phosphorus that she likes. She'll kill her best friend for yogurt - you should see her run to the frozen yogurt shop...and she doesn't like running. Pray might work for some people, but it won't for Lucy even if I tried - she eats grass ALL the time on walks. Nom nom walk nom nom walk (and no, she doesn't throw up...we think she just likes grass and leaves...weirdo!)

I also need to ease her in to this type of diet because the history of her tummy issues. I know it's not necessary - some people in any diet go cold turkey...but she has always had a very sensitive stomach (which is why I love california naturals). I used to say when she was a pup when she was on diff food that she'd get the runs from watching a person eat something.

so if I go to the farmers market tomorrow, I should ask for 4 quarters of chicken and some livers? Someone said chicken wings, but I gather those are to small for her size? I should stick to chicken backs and for wings/legs stick to turkey? (no pork in my house...Jews for the win!)

Like I said, Im going to ween her on it with primal, since it's already measured out and convenient. Are thinks like ground chicken/hamburger good? Also, does she have to eat a bone every day? Can one day be something I've mushed up in the processor (livers, baked sweet potato, moderately cooked egg, for example?)?

I'm hoping to speak with the vet today about switching to inform her of the plans/get her input. With Lucy's elevated but not dangerous CREAT levels, I think a good agreement would be to test this out for 2-3 months and get her blood rechecked to see if it has any impact.

I'd still like to hear of people whose dogs creat levels have stabilized/decreased in changing to a raw diet.

Thanks, all! TGIF

 

[RawFedDogs]

Lucy loves dairy and veggies, so like others here, I plan on giving her items low in phosphorus that she likes. She'll kill her best friend for yogurt - you should see her run to the frozen yogurt shop...and she doesn't like running. Pray might work for some people, but it won't for Lucy even if I tried - she eats grass ALL the time on walks. Nom nom walk nom nom walk (and no, she doesn't throw up...we think she just likes grass and leaves...weirdo!)

You have already lost before you begin. Of course prey model raw will work for your dog. She is a carnivore. Her body was designed from the tip of her snout to her anus to eat and digest raw meat, bones, and organs. Saying prey model diet won't work for her is like saying a diet of grass won't work for some cows.

I also need to ease her in to this type of diet because the history of her tummy issues. I know it's not necessary - some people in any diet go cold turkey...but she has always had a very sensitive stomach (which is why I love california naturals). I used to say when she was a pup when she was on diff food that she'd get the runs from watching a person eat something.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe her "tummy issues" were because of the inappropriate foods you've been giving her? All the veggies and dairy? I'm pretty sure that once those are eliminated from her diet, her digestive problems will go away. Her body was not designed to digest such foods. It puts a great strain on it to try.

so if I go to the farmers market tomorrow, I should ask for 4 quarters of chicken and some livers? Someone said chicken wings, but I gather those are to small for her size? I should stick to chicken backs and for wings/legs stick to turkey? (no pork in my house...Jews for the win!)

Go back and re-read my web page. No organs for a couple of months. Let her digestive system adjust to the meat and bones before introducing organs. Chicken backs and quarters are all you need to concern yourself with for the next couple of weeks.

Like I said, Im going to ween her on it with primal, since it's already measured out and convenient.

Like I said in a previous post, Primal isn't going to help in any way. It will not help ween her onto a prey model raw diet. It's nothing more than raw kibble. You are not accomplishing anything nor are you making it easier to switch by feeding it. The only thing you are accomplishing is postponing the time you have to go buy some chicken parts.

Are thinks like ground chicken/hamburger good?

In moderation. I wouldn't feed ground stuff for a month or more. Ground meat is high in fat and makes digestion more difficult. She should be able to handle it well after she has adjusted herself to real food.

Also, does she have to eat a bone every day?

No.

Can one day be something I've mushed up in the processor (livers, baked sweet potato, moderately cooked egg, for example?)?

Why on earth do you want to do that? She has a digestive system capable of handling the food you will be feeding her. Mushing up stuff is not doing her any favors. Let her digestive system do the work it is designed to do. There isn't any harm in it as long as it's very occasionally but it's entirely unnecessary.

I'm hoping to speak with the vet today about switching to inform her of the plans/get her input. With Lucy's elevated but not dangerous CREAT levels, I think a good agreement would be to test this out for 2-3 months and get her blood rechecked to see if it has any impact.

If it makes you feel better, go ahead but there will be no impact one way or the other. A prey model raw diet is not going to cure a damaged kidney nor will it hurt it in any way.

I'd still like to hear of people whose dogs creat levels have stabilized/decreased in changing to a raw diet.

You won't hear from anyone like that because it doesn't do that. You also won't hear from anyone who will say it made it worse.

 

[rannmiller]

The Primal will at least get some good quality raw meat into her diet, so that's a good thing since she doesn't get any of that right now.

I have to agree with RFD about the tummy issues, it could very well be from the kibble.

As I said earlier, my renal failure dog is doing phenomenally well on a raw diet but I haven't had her blood tested since she's doing so well, why spend the $200? She's already outlived the vet's estimation by 4 years now.

My cat is in early stage renal failure and the only thing she will eat is raw food. She stopped eating for a few weeks and really started acting like a renal failure kitty. I found a raw food she actually loves and will eat and she hasn't had a problem since. The only reason the vet suspected she was in renal failure is because she had smelly breath and was slightly dehydrated, so we did some bloodwork on her and found it out. I honestly believe that the only reason she isn't far far worse is because the raw food has helped her turn it around/keep it in check. I'm getting bloodwork done again in two more months to make sure she's still doing well so I'll let you know then. The main problem that I've heard with that though is that the high protein of the food raises their BUN or Creat levels (I don't remember which one at the moment) on paper so it looks like it's worse than it actually is.

 

[jeserf]

I'm sorry, Lucy does great on dairy and veggies. She had the runs from high fat kibble (the vet said "large breed puppy" and it was a baaad idea). She gets yogurt every so often and has never had any problems from it other than wanting more. Same with some other items. Why would proponents of raw recommend probiotics if their bellies didn't need it, at least in the beginning? Or, are you smarter than other proponents of the diet?

No offense, but I know what makes my dog sick. The fact that so many meat parts (including skin) are so high in fat makes me even more nervous about switching her.

I have a very hard time believing a dog with a sensitivity to higher fat items won't get sick if I simply throw a half a chicken, raw, in her bowl. So if that's is my belief based on experience with her, why wouldn't I ween her off to be on the safe side? No dog likes to get sick.

I'm sure it's worked well for you, but every dog is different. I have tried a few foods/diets, including home cooking (which she did perfectly fine on, but I have a life) and she stopped getting sick when I eliminated higher fat items (and gave up on fish...oh god that was the worst).

And yes, I've looked at your web site but it does not help me much. Is your full time job raw food for your pets?

And a stabilized (which means not made worse) CREAT level is a great part of what we're looking for. Every other level is within normal range, so not making her creat worse would be good.

 

[jeserf]

I have to agree with RFD about the tummy issues, it could very well be from the kibble.

As I said earlier, my renal failure dog is doing phenomenally well on a raw diet but I haven't had her blood tested since she's doing so well, why spend the $200? She's already outlived the vet's estimation by 4 years now.

Yes, her previous kibble didn't work for her. Since we've switched to lower fat, limited ingredients kibble, she's been great. That doesn't mean, though, that if I switch her diet cold turkey that she won't get sick. I've seen my dog sick enough (when I got her, she had whip worm) - it's been so nice the last 9 months or so.

It costs you $200 to get your dog's blood tested?!?! yikes!

 

[RawFedDogs]

Why would proponents of raw recommend probiotics if their bellies didn't need it, at least in the beginning? Or, are you smarter than other proponents of the diet?

I am a propronent of raw diet and I have never recommended probiotics or prebiotics. All dogs have them already in their digestive system can regulate the amount very well. Throwing them in the diet just complicates things. So to answer your question, yes I think im smarter than people who recommend these unnecessary supplements. Does that mean that occasionally (very occasionally) a dog doesn't develop a physical problem that probiotics would help? No it doesn't. In rare instances probiotics might be called for.

No offense, but I know what makes my dog sick. The fact that so many meat parts (including skin) are so high in fat makes me even more nervous about switching her.

No offense but I don't think you do. Don't equate how a dog's body handles fat to the way a human's body handles it. We are different animals and out bodies handle fat differently. Having said that, it's possible that a dog who is kibble fed might have problems with high levels of fat early in the transistion. Once the dog has eaten a prey model raw diet a few weeks and his body has made the internal enzyme adjustment, fat will no longer be a problem. For the first few weeks of eating raw, you might want to cut the skin off the chicken if she has digestive problems. Most likely it won't be necessary.

I have a very hard time believing a dog with a sensitivity to higher fat items won't get sick if I simply throw a half a chicken, raw, in her bowl. So if that's is my belief based on experience with her, why wouldn't I ween her off to be on the safe side? No dog likes to get sick.

I wouldn't ween her but if you want to be on the safe side, feed nothing but chicken backs the first week and cut the extra fat off them. The boney backs minus the fat will greatly hold down the chances of digestive upset.

I'm sure it's worked well for you, but every dog is different. I have tried a few foods/diets, including home cooking (which she did perfectly fine on, but I have a life) and she stopped getting sick when I eliminated higher fat items (and gave up on fish...oh god that was the worst).

No, every dog is exactly alike. THey all have the same parts in their digestive system. Fed a proper diet, they will all have the same results. You may have fed her different diets but I'll bet you still fed her veggies, fruits, and dairy products. Cooking destroys nutrients including enzymes in the food that aids in digestion. Cooked food is much more difficult to digest than raw food. Believe me, once your dog adjusts to eating a raw diet, fat will not be a problem.

And yes, I've looked at your web site but it does not help me much. Is your full time job raw food for your pets?

It didn't help you because you read a lot of things you didn't want to see. It tells you to do things you don't want to do. No, it's definately not a full time job. It takes me about a couple of hours a month more to feed raw than to feed kibble. Thats about 4 minutes a day. Hardly a full time job.

ETA: Transistioning a dog to a prey model raw diet is a process. I have helped well over 100 dogs switch with almost no problems. Don't try to shortcut the process. It only will lead to having a more difficult experience.

 

[jeserf]

hahah you bet.
I feed my dog 1 cup of food in the morning, one in the afternoon, and her evening treat once in a while is frozen yogurt or a marrow bone (from primal...omg I'm a horrible mother!). IF I have extra winter squash or sweet potato, she gets a little as a treat. She loves yogurt. You might not think it's necessary in your opinion, but I'm going to bet (just like you!) your diet doesn't consist of only necessary items. Birthday cake? morning coffee?

She doesn't eat human food, I never feed her from the kitchen counter, etc.

So, if high fat food (large breed diet and treats like rawhide) gave my dog the runs, and taking her off said diet got rid of the problem, I suppose you're right that I don't know what makes her sick.

I've read far more information that giving your dog pulped veggies a couple of times a week is appropriate and believe me, I've read a lot (including when I got her, but didn't go raw). So, I don't see how one web site recommended by its creator is any different than, say, a vet trying to get me to buy science diet.

I'm still waiting for the results of her sterile bladder culture, but tomorrow is the farmers market and I'll see what the chicken folks have - I might have to order a back...or on our trip to Wegmans, we'll see if we can get a chicken quartered from the butcher (yes, I have to drive all the way to Wegmans, about 40 minutes each eay, to go to a market with an on-site butcher...luckily it's a great store!).

The farmers market has chicken and buffalo, sometimes other things but mostly those items. And eggs. Wonderful free range eggs with bright orange yolks!

 

[jeserf]

just got this from the farmers market:

Said producer: Yes, their beef is great. All grass- fed and all grass- finished beef from half Piedmontese cows. Steaks - Porterhouse, T-Bone, Delmonico, Sandwich Steak, Sirloin. Eye Round, Chuck and Arm make easy- to- cook slow roasts and stews for rainy days and cooler nights. Ground Beef at a small local family farm butcher who works with one or two cows at a time! Ground to Daniel's specs. Hamburger Patties, Bones, Liver, Heart, Tongue and Tail for humans and dogs!


A dog would get the liver, heart, and tongue?

And yes, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.

 

[jeserf]

www.dogaware.com/kidneys has a chart with various foods and their phosphorus levels. Most of the stuff I've read is that limiting protein in diets should only happen at the very very end stages of kidney failure, but that limiting phosphorus is important

(great site by the way)

But the items like chicken necks and backs are very very high in phosphorus. What is the insight on this here?

 

[RawFedDogs]

You might not think it's necessary in your opinion, but I'm going to bet (just like you!) your diet doesn't consist of only necessary items. Birthday cake? morning coffee?

Somewhat. I have almost entirely cut out sweets and I have lost almost 40lbs in the last 4 months. I don't drink coffee or tea except for green tea. I eat very little bread. And your' right. Those things won't hurt her and if you want to feed them as treats, thats OK, but don't expect any nutritional value to be derived from them. The veggies may also be contributing to the sensitive stomach issue.

She doesn't eat human food, I never feed her from the kitchen counter, etc.

I do ... but its always left over meats. I don't feed from the table but when the kitchen is being cleared, the leftover meats are handed out at the kitchen sink. The dogs always gather at the sink when we begin clearing the table. :smile: Sometimes we say, "nothing tonight" when there is no leftover meat and they hang their heads and walk away. :smile:

So, if high fat food (large breed diet and treats like rawhide) gave my dog the runs, and taking her off said diet got rid of the problem, I suppose you're right that I don't know what makes her sick.

Yes, I am. You don't know which components in the diet are causing the problem. Cooked and Processed fats can definately be a problem. Raw fats? No.

I've read far more information that giving your dog pulped veggies a couple of times a week is appropriate and believe me, I've read a lot (including when I got her, but didn't go raw).

If you have to pulp or otherwise process a food for any animal to unilize it, then it obviously isn't what that animal should be eating. Wolves cannot find pulped veggies in nature. Nature designed certain animals to eat certain things. Dogs are carnivores and designed to eat meat, bones, and organs. They do not have the equipment to propery digest and utilize veggies. There are no nutrients in veggies that are not in the meat, bones, and organs of the prey animals that eat them.

So, I don't see how one web site recommended by its creator is any different than, say, a vet trying to get me to buy science diet.

It's a good point, however the creator of the website in question is much more knowledgable about canine nutrition that 95% of the vets out there and is paid nothing to recommend any garbage low quality dog food. You see, during their schooling, vets take ONE course on ANIMAL nutrition. That covers all animals from rats to cows and horses and includes dogs and cats. ONE COURSE for 3 months. That is the sum total of their training in animal nutrition. Most of that course is spent learning how to read the labeling on dog food. The creator of that wonderful web page has taken a couple of college courses on canine nutrition and has attended 3 seminars by world renoun canine nutrition experts as well as spent hundreds of hours doing research.

I'm still waiting for the results of her sterile bladder culture, but tomorrow is the farmers market and I'll see what the chicken folks have - I might have to order a back...or on our trip to Wegmans, we'll see if we can get a chicken quartered from the butcher (yes, I have to drive all the way to Wegmans, about 40 minutes each eay, to go to a market with an on-site butcher...luckily it's a great store!).

Cool ... hope the tests are good.

The farmers market has chicken and buffalo, sometimes other things but mostly those items. And eggs. Wonderful free range eggs with bright orange yolks!

Great ... chicken should be real cheap there. Free range eggs are wonderful.

 

[jeserf]

I have a canine nutritionist at our local pet food store, and she doesn't care where you buy food from. I don't buy anything from my vet, and my vet has never tried to sell me anything (other than her anti-worm meds, and even then they don't care where I get them from)

The dogaware kidney info is probably the most helpful information I have found with regards to an appropriate kidney diet.

Comments on phosphorus in the diet would be helpful. If you don't feel like reeding it from that site, she basically fed her dog a mixture of raw meat, mostly ground - reduced bone levels because of the phosphorus in them - and some other things on rotation like whole egg, yogurt, sweet potato and some salmon oil...maybe some tripe (kudos to whoever recommended in other threats the dog food WITH tripe in it so you don't have to go buy tripe, or can see if the dog likes tripe)

 

[RawFedDogs]

The dogaware kidney info is probably the most helpful information I have found with regards to an appropriate kidney diet.

That is a good page with a lot of good information. I don't agree with everything they say but I don't think there is a page on the internet that has more than 2 words on it that I agree with everything. :smile:

Comments on phosphorus in the diet would be helpful. If you don't feel like reeding it from that site, she basically fed her dog a mixture of raw meat, mostly ground - reduced bone levels because of the phosphorus in them - and some other things on rotation like whole egg, yogurt, sweet potato and some salmon oil...maybe some tripe (kudos to whoever recommended in other threats the dog food WITH tripe in it so you don't have to go buy tripe, or can see if the dog likes tripe)

It's not a big problem to reduce the bone amount in a prey model raw diet. You don't want to eliminate bone all together. I suggest from 5% to 10% of the diet being bone in your case. In this case sweet potato is used to firm up the stool with the reduction of bones. Bones are constipators and generally a dog who is having soft stools or diarrhea should be fed more bones but in the case of a renal failure dog, that isn't practical. A dog fed too little bone will usually have soft mushy stools.

Is there a kibble with tripe in it? Oh, believe me, there has never been a dog born who doesn't like green tripe. :biggrin: Make sure it's green tripe and not the tripe that is sold in grocery stores. That tripe is useless nutritionally.

 

[DaneMama]

jeserf-

You are really overcomplicating things trying to figure out a raw diet.

Also, just because your dog likes something, say yogurt or grass, doesn't mean that she is supposed to eat it...just like we really shouldn't eat cake and drink coffee.

You are the one in charge of what she eats, how much and when. I REALLY wish someone had that power over me that cared 100% about nutrition only, giving me only what I need...not what I want. I would be as healthy as ever if someone had that power over me (and I think that everyone here will agree with me!!!). I would never have to worry about being on a diet and losing weight.

So when it comes to picking out what she has to eat, shouldn't you care 100% about nutrition only? Espeically in her case with her kidney issue?

And if you are worried about her becoming less than satisfied on a raw diet without getting her favorite thing that she would kill for...YOGURT...give it a chance and you will see that she will most likely like raw meats more than yogurt. It will become a thing of the past.

 

[jeserf]

Is there a kibble with tripe in it? Oh, believe me, there has never been a dog born who doesn't like green tripe. :biggrin: Make sure it's green tripe and not the tripe that is sold in grocery stores. That tripe is useless nutritionally.

no, there is wet green tripe food with other stuff in it - Ziwipak, solid gold, etc. Lots of pages have recommended using it in that it's easier to get, shelf stable, etc.

and there are people on this site that have posted that their dogs don't like tripe. So I guess they're also wrong about their dogs?

I wasn't saying she NEEDS yogurt, but if the things you all on the "prey" diet feed your dogs are higher in phosphorus (the chart on dogaware is very, very good) then a dog needs to be given other things for bulk and vitamins/minerals. So, giving your dog bones 2-3 times a week and pieces of meat without bone isn't giving the dog everything, things like egg shell/white and other items that provide minerals should be given. That's what that web site talks about. She also gave the dog fish oil and her story about the dog's health is wonderful. I consider the situations similar in that it was a fluke off number that needs to be addressed, not an overall specific issue (if that makes sense).

That story and the diet gave me hope that I can help Lucy's creatnine level (which can mean not make it worse and I'll be fine with that) and that the meat is easier to cope with in terms of amount when she should have reduced bone/larger cuts of meat. Chunks of lamb, shredded butternut squash and a whole egg are, for someone like me, easier to read as a recipe than "here's a picture of a dog with a hunk of brisket" Especially when it's accompanied with a break down of each item's phosphorus level and how it fits in to what is recommended.