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Replacement time

11K views 53 replies 14 participants last post by  kevin bradley 
#1 ·
Hi all,

I'm not canine expert but I was dismayed when my dog store lady informed me about the California Natural Procter and Gamble situation. Pancake is a 2-year old beagle who has been doing great on the CN Lamb formula. She's got some allergies so I would like to replace her food with a food that avoids chicken and some of the more allergy-provoking grains. Her tummy can be sensitive and she's had vomiting when switching foods before.

I have concerns about switching her to Orijen. Beagles are dogs that will really get fat if you let them, and they LOVE to eat. I would like to switch her to something really similar to the CN, if possible, and although I understand how great Orijen is, it's clearly not that similar to CN (I realize some of you will say: 'Well, true. It's SUPERIOR to CN.' Duly noted).

So what would you recommend as a good substitute for the CN lamb formula....meaning, what is high quality and has a similar caloric value and similar richness?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Hi all,



I have concerns about switching her to Orijen. Beagles are dogs that will really get fat if you let them, and they LOVE to eat.?
my answer is it is up to the owner as to whether or not a beagle will get fat, regardless of what you are feeding.

if she doesnt need a limited ingredient diet, then yes, orijen will be highly recommended as kibbles go. it sounds like you are seeking a kibble with no chicken and possibly no grains. off the top of my head i would say orijen fish, canidae grain free salmon, wellness core ocean, acana pacifica, acana grasslands, maybe Natures Variety Instinct Duck or Instinct Salmon(im not sure all these are chicken free, but i think most are.)

oh, just a warning...some people here will make you feel like you have no right to be so concerned about the P&G acquisition to the point of switching foods. i say anyone has the right to be concerned, and if that means discontinuing feeding Natura, then so be it.
 
#7 ·
my answer is it is up to the owner as to whether or not a beagle will get fat, regardless of what you are feeding.
I see what you're saying, and of course we would have the responsibility of making sure she got less food if the food was richer in order to maintain her weight. I'm not saying that quantity is our only concern obviously or even a huge priority--but I feel there is enough debate over dog food that Orijen is not THE only high quality food. I'd like to feed her something not quite so rich. Not to mention that as my pup loves to eat switching her to the highest caloric food and feeding her less would be a bit of a bummer for her! :smile:

oh, just a warning...some people here will make you feel like you have no right to be so concerned about the P&G acquisition to the point of switching foods. i say anyone has the right to be concerned, and if that means discontinuing feeding Natura, then so be it.
I wouldn't normally be concerned and would take more of a wait and see approach myself. But many people who do spend a lot of time focusing on the quality of dog food and are very educated about it, including the proprietor of our dog store whom I've been impressed with, ARE concerned. To me that is a red flag. I don't presume that I know more them then, so if they're concerned, I'm concerned.
 
#16 ·
Yes, anyone has a right to be concerned if they choose but no one as a valid reason.
valid reason. lets say you are walking down the street. you see someone approaching you wearing a ball cap sideways, a hooded sweatshirt, and you think they just look shady. you move to the other side of the street.. why? you had no evidence to be concerned. he has never done anything wrong to you. you (or whoever has done something like this) did this out of pure instinct. is that a valid reason. it sure is in my book.

if my instincts tell me P&G will inevitably screw up Natura products, i feel that is a valid enough reason to step away. im tired of people being told what constitutes a valid reason for stepping away from Natura products. if they have a gut feeling that it wont go well, then i consider that a valid enough reason for them. i would add that most people that have said they are stepping away have not said "im done with them for good." ive seen more responses like "i will keep an eye on the products and see how thing go"

perfectly reasonable in my world.
 
#18 ·
if they have a gut feeling that it wont go well, then i consider that a valid enough reason for them.
Taking any action about anything from gut feeling based on nothing concrete is nothing more than hysteria. It's practically the definition of hysteria.
 
#3 ·
You might take a look at some Fromm Four Star Nutritional kibbles. While all their formulas contain a bit of chicken cartiledge, they are considered "single protein source" foods as the chicken cartiledge is a)negligible in amount (even my dog deathly allergic to chicken tolerates the food), and b)not recognized by the dog's body as "chicken". I'd say maybe give the duck or pork formulas a try.

Both foods avoid the more "offensive grains" and stick to higher quality ones such as whole rice and other carb sources such as sweet potato.

The company is still small and privately owned, so finding the food can be a bit of a challenge, but go to their website and do a search, and also if you contact them, they'll send you coupons :) Fromm Family Foods - Gourmet Pet Food, Naturally Holistic
 
#4 ·
Before I feed what I feed now (raw), my little chihuahua did well on Natural Balance Duck & Potato. She is allergic to chicken, beef, (in processed form) wheat and corn. My pom was doing great on Wellness Core (they have a salmon version with no chicken).
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
Before I feed what I feed now (raw), my little chihuahua did well on Natural Balance Duck & Potato.
i always have to add my two cents on the Natural Balance LID's. since they are mostly potato and little meat at all, i would make sure a dog absolutely cant handle any of the more traditional kibbles before resorting to this. i recognize that for some dogs it is the only solution.
 
#6 ·
before i switched to the dark side LOL, i used to feed my dogs wellness super five barley/lamb/salmon and we were just getting ready to switch to their limited ingredient food...they did well on that...plus salmon oil gelcaps....and a little bit of ocean kelp....
 
#9 ·
What about it? :smile:

Yes, I am looking at Acana, along with Fromm, Go! and Wellness right now. Complicating the matter is our dog specialty store prefers only to carry American-made dog foods for ethical reasons (she wants to support this economy). If it comes to it, I will go somewhere else to buy a Canadian food if it is necessary, but it would be a small inconvenience.

I must say that this all seems pretty befuddling for me and frustrating. My childhood dogs lived to be 16 and 14, and although I don't recall what my parents fed them as I was young myself at the time, I know it was something along the lines of Purina or Iams which we would never feed to our pup. Our breeder fed her Pro Plan after experimenting with a lot of dog food options as well. And everyone says not to trusts vets on the food issue. So you'd think the solution would be to come to forums like this one, but that results only in a sea of contradictions and further confusion. :confused:

Not to insult everyone who has been so very kind and helpful in this thread--I am speaking about other threads on this forum and in many other forums as well. I do appreciate everyone who has weighed in here. Any other opinions? Keep 'em coming!!
 
#10 ·
I will say we did try the Acana Grasslands and we just weren't fans. I hated how it smelled, it seemed greasy, and my pups didn't care terribly for it, but thats all preference. I do still think its a great food!

Right now we are introducing ours to The Honest Kitchen and they love it. I wanted something to compliment the Fromm. Even tiny sensitive tummy pup is doing well.
 
#15 ·
i too own stock in P & G. Does that mean i should bow out of any discussion concerning dog food companies they just bought? or currently own?

and, because i own stock in P & G, does it make me a hypocrite because i don't feed their products?

i don't know why people are getting so hysterical about the buy out. nothing has happened. and if it does, only then will action be called for. do i think things will change? yes, but i'd still feed it until that change happens....IF i were happy with the dog food and thought it benefitted his health.

i am learning as i get older....that...things do change. we learn much about nutrition and disease and how people or dogs get diseases....and why they get diseases and how to prevent certain diseases...like tooth decay and rot...like stomach issues....

to the OP....i think you're right. my childhood dog lived to be sixteen, in spite of or because of what he was fed. we used to give him t-bone steak bones (cooked)....things we would never do now.

i don't remember as a kid, being concerned about my dog's teeth or poops or general health other than the biggies like distemper and rabies.

so we innoculated, we got their teeth cleaned once a year...and now we're learning that nutrition plays a big part, a huge part in a dog's life....between the time they are born and the time they die...there's nothing confusing about improving the quality of life, no matter how long a dog lives.

i think you do the best you can with what you've got and what you believe in...and if your dog thrives, then you can sleep at night.
 
#33 ·
not to mention that proctor and gambles current food and policies are enough to make you boycott them even if evo remains
 
#34 ·
I don't feel strongly on either side of the fence here, but this makes NO logical sense to me at all.

SO, because company X makes a poor quality food A, you can't purchase their high quality food B?

What influence does food A have on food B?



If I remember right, you feed Canidae grain free. Should you not feed this because canidae has a couple of low quality foods? (their chicken and rice formula is pretty terrible)
 
#35 ·
no, i mean proctor and gamble isnt ethical. canidae is very ethical they donate for freekibble.com or w/e that donatio nsite is named.
 
#36 ·
Donations make you ethical?
Pedigree is one of the biggest donators to shelters all over the country.

I'm not sure where you're getting your logic from, forgive me but I don't understand.

It's ok for Canidae to produce low quality foods, but not for another company.

And then the reason it's okay is because Canidae donates?:confused:
 
#49 ·
but kirkland requires a membership to costoc,which costs money itself...also if youre not a member of costco itd be unreasnable to ask them to join.

idk where to even buy diamond naturals.
 
#50 ·
If you ask me, its all about priorities, I've seen people load up bags of Ol' roy into a hummer, I bet they make good money and can afford better food, but to them, either all dog food is the same, might as well save a few bucks, or "its just a dog" mentality. I half broke most of the time, being a student and paying off loans, but I'd rather skip on things like eating out every week or shopping for new clothes which I dont need anyways and focus on keeping my dog happy and healthy.
 
#51 ·
Let us not forget that you literally have thousands of VETS telling people it doesn't matter what the hell you feed your Dogs. 9/10 people are going to believe a VET over anything a regular everyday person tells them.

You also have people like John Stossel(that Fox right wing nut who used to be on 20/20) telling people that it doesn't matter...yes, he did this in a book of his....he even had Professors from Vet schools quoted in his book as saying it doesn't make a dam bit of difference what we feed our Dogs.
 
#52 · (Edited)
and then we have people who make their way to a forum...maybe they're not sure why..something niggles at them...and before you know it, they're hot and heavy into thinking about what to feed scruffy...or scruffette...

that's progress....

there ARE vets who are coming around, simply because it is what their clients want. and, if they want to keep their clients, they will begin to, if not support, not object to an alternative or a better kibble.

i can see how advertising is changing...and, whilst purina is still a crap food....they're marketing to an audience who is listening....there had to be some impact from premium dog food sales that influenced this surge of what's good to feed fido and don't you want the very best...

it's up to us, however, to check it out, research, make sure.....not the business, not their advertising companies...or campaign managers...but us....at the end of the line, it's up to us.

btw, RC...using terms like upper, middle, lower class....can be interpreted differently than how you probably meant it..and, whilst i believe you were referring to economics, there are those who use that term...

actually many people....understand those terms as a means that defines class as one who is either economically and socially upper, middle, or lower...lower class is generally associated with poor trash....not just.....poor or lower income..
 
#53 ·
Just read through this thread...very interesting thread, I think there will be more of these takeovers in the current economic conditions

Wellness was bought out by somebody last year, cant remeber who.......

....now Innova et al are bought out by P and G.

The small companies cant keep up with the mega corps, as getting operating credit is tight across the entire smaller business spectrum, and some commodity prices fluctuate so much that fixing costs must be very hard for smaller companies....obviously the mega corps do not have thses problems and can negotiate better prices on larger quantities.


I see many many people who are more educated about pet food, and while ll the big companies tried to change their packaging and created new "brands," that on the surface looked comparable to the premium pet foods, a quick glance at the labels revealed more of the same crap.


Are pet food companies required to notify when they change their formulas or do they only have to have acccurate ingrediant/nutrition profiles?


Whne wellness was bought out did they change the quality much after the buyout?


What independent companies are left?
 
#54 ·
Reg,

I've done some research on the takeovers, pre acquisition formulas/ingredients in the foods and honestly, the ingredient makeup of the foods doesn't/hasn't changed much.

Example...one of the points that bothers me is that many people will say "Look what P&G did to Iams and Eukanuba." So I found some ingredient lists for Iams and Eukanuba pre takeover.

For the most part, its not accurate. Iams and Eukanuba were always garbage foods litterrd with corn and fillers. I found very little changed in the formulas.

I don't like the takeover, honestly. But if you think you are going to go look at the EVO ingredient list and see corn and soybeans as the 1st ingredients next week, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Now if you want to talk about the QUALITY of the Chicken in Evo degrading or laxed quality practices at the plant level....thats a real possibility.

On paper, EVO is still an outstanding food.

I just hate Proctor and Gamble. Mainly for what they do w/ Animal testing.
 
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