[ihatepavelbure]

Hi all,

I'm not canine expert but I was dismayed when my dog store lady informed me about the California Natural Procter and Gamble situation. Pancake is a 2-year old beagle who has been doing great on the CN Lamb formula. She's got some allergies so I would like to replace her food with a food that avoids chicken and some of the more allergy-provoking grains. Her tummy can be sensitive and she's had vomiting when switching foods before.

I have concerns about switching her to Orijen. Beagles are dogs that will really get fat if you let them, and they LOVE to eat. I would like to switch her to something really similar to the CN, if possible, and although I understand how great Orijen is, it's clearly not that similar to CN (I realize some of you will say: 'Well, true. It's SUPERIOR to CN.' Duly noted).

So what would you recommend as a good substitute for the CN lamb formula....meaning, what is high quality and has a similar caloric value and similar richness?

 

[buddy97]

Hi all,



I have concerns about switching her to Orijen. Beagles are dogs that will really get fat if you let them, and they LOVE to eat.?

my answer is it is up to the owner as to whether or not a beagle will get fat, regardless of what you are feeding.

if she doesnt need a limited ingredient diet, then yes, orijen will be highly recommended as kibbles go. it sounds like you are seeking a kibble with no chicken and possibly no grains. off the top of my head i would say orijen fish, canidae grain free salmon, wellness core ocean, acana pacifica, acana grasslands, maybe Natures Variety Instinct Duck or Instinct Salmon(im not sure all these are chicken free, but i think most are.)

oh, just a warning...some people here will make you feel like you have no right to be so concerned about the P&G acquisition to the point of switching foods. i say anyone has the right to be concerned, and if that means discontinuing feeding Natura, then so be it.

 

[flippedstars]

You might take a look at some Fromm Four Star Nutritional kibbles. While all their formulas contain a bit of chicken cartiledge, they are considered "single protein source" foods as the chicken cartiledge is a)negligible in amount (even my dog deathly allergic to chicken tolerates the food), and b)not recognized by the dog's body as "chicken". I'd say maybe give the duck or pork formulas a try.

Both foods avoid the more "offensive grains" and stick to higher quality ones such as whole rice and other carb sources such as sweet potato.

The company is still small and privately owned, so finding the food can be a bit of a challenge, but go to their website and do a search, and also if you contact them, they'll send you coupons Fromm Family Foods - Gourmet Pet Food, Naturally Holistic

 

[cprcheetah]

Before I feed what I feed now (raw), my little chihuahua did well on Natural Balance Duck & Potato. She is allergic to chicken, beef, (in processed form) wheat and corn. My pom was doing great on Wellness Core (they have a salmon version with no chicken).

 

[buddy97]

Before I feed what I feed now (raw), my little chihuahua did well on Natural Balance Duck & Potato.

i always have to add my two cents on the Natural Balance LID's. since they are mostly potato and little meat at all, i would make sure a dog absolutely cant handle any of the more traditional kibbles before resorting to this. i recognize that for some dogs it is the only solution.

 

[magicre]

before i switched to the dark side LOL, i used to feed my dogs wellness super five barley/lamb/salmon and we were just getting ready to switch to their limited ingredient food...they did well on that...plus salmon oil gelcaps....and a little bit of ocean kelp....

 

[ihatepavelbure]

my answer is it is up to the owner as to whether or not a beagle will get fat, regardless of what you are feeding.

I see what you're saying, and of course we would have the responsibility of making sure she got less food if the food was richer in order to maintain her weight. I'm not saying that quantity is our only concern obviously or even a huge priority--but I feel there is enough debate over dog food that Orijen is not THE only high quality food. I'd like to feed her something not quite so rich. Not to mention that as my pup loves to eat switching her to the highest caloric food and feeding her less would be a bit of a bummer for her! :smile:

oh, just a warning...some people here will make you feel like you have no right to be so concerned about the P&G acquisition to the point of switching foods. i say anyone has the right to be concerned, and if that means discontinuing feeding Natura, then so be it.

I wouldn't normally be concerned and would take more of a wait and see approach myself. But many people who do spend a lot of time focusing on the quality of dog food and are very educated about it, including the proprietor of our dog store whom I've been impressed with, ARE concerned. To me that is a red flag. I don't presume that I know more them then, so if they're concerned, I'm concerned.

 

[bdb5853]

What about Acana?

 

[ihatepavelbure]

What about Acana?

What about it? :smile:

Yes, I am looking at Acana, along with Fromm, Go! and Wellness right now. Complicating the matter is our dog specialty store prefers only to carry American-made dog foods for ethical reasons (she wants to support this economy). If it comes to it, I will go somewhere else to buy a Canadian food if it is necessary, but it would be a small inconvenience.

I must say that this all seems pretty befuddling for me and frustrating. My childhood dogs lived to be 16 and 14, and although I don't recall what my parents fed them as I was young myself at the time, I know it was something along the lines of Purina or Iams which we would never feed to our pup. Our breeder fed her Pro Plan after experimenting with a lot of dog food options as well. And everyone says not to trusts vets on the food issue. So you'd think the solution would be to come to forums like this one, but that results only in a sea of contradictions and further confusion.

Not to insult everyone who has been so very kind and helpful in this thread--I am speaking about other threads on this forum and in many other forums as well. I do appreciate everyone who has weighed in here. Any other opinions? Keep 'em coming!!

 

[flippedstars]

I will say we did try the Acana Grasslands and we just weren't fans. I hated how it smelled, it seemed greasy, and my pups didn't care terribly for it, but thats all preference. I do still think its a great food!

Right now we are introducing ours to The Honest Kitchen and they love it. I wanted something to compliment the Fromm. Even tiny sensitive tummy pup is doing well.

 

[RawFedDogs]

I wouldn't normally be concerned and would take more of a wait and see approach myself. But many people who do spend a lot of time focusing on the quality of dog food and are very educated about it, including the proprietor of our dog store whom I've been impressed with, ARE concerned. To me that is a red flag. I don't presume that I know more them then, so if they're concerned, I'm concerned.

Anybody CAN be concerned but there is not one tiny remote bit of evidence that the quality has or will be compromised. There is a lot of hysteria making its rounds on the internet and it feeds on itself. Yes, anyone has a right to be concerned if they choose but no one as a valid reason.

 

[RCTRIPLEFRESH5]

Anybody CAN be concerned but there is not one tiny remote bit of evidence that the quality has or will be compromised. There is a lot of hysteria making its rounds on the internet and it feeds on itself. Yes, anyone has a right to be concerned if they choose but no one as a valid reason.

OP,it should be noted that rfd own stock with evo/proctor and gambles!not saying hes a bad guy but its hypocritical:biggrin:

 

[RawFedDogs]

OP,it should be noted that rfd own stock with evo/proctor and gambles!not saying hes a bad guy but its hypocritical:biggrin:

Exactly what statement did I make that way hypocritical? There is nothing ... and I mean nothing that can/will happen with these new P&G products that will effect the value of my stock in the least. They are just too small a part of the company to have any bearing whatsoever on stock price.

 

[Unosmom]

My dog is eating wellness core and doing quite well on it. I also like acana provincial.

You can also look into the new Blue Buffalo grain free fish formula.

 

[magicre]

i too own stock in P & G. Does that mean i should bow out of any discussion concerning dog food companies they just bought? or currently own?

and, because i own stock in P & G, does it make me a hypocrite because i don't feed their products?

i don't know why people are getting so hysterical about the buy out. nothing has happened. and if it does, only then will action be called for. do i think things will change? yes, but i'd still feed it until that change happens....IF i were happy with the dog food and thought it benefitted his health.

i am learning as i get older....that...things do change. we learn much about nutrition and disease and how people or dogs get diseases....and why they get diseases and how to prevent certain diseases...like tooth decay and rot...like stomach issues....

to the OP....i think you're right. my childhood dog lived to be sixteen, in spite of or because of what he was fed. we used to give him t-bone steak bones (cooked)....things we would never do now.

i don't remember as a kid, being concerned about my dog's teeth or poops or general health other than the biggies like distemper and rabies.

so we innoculated, we got their teeth cleaned once a year...and now we're learning that nutrition plays a big part, a huge part in a dog's life....between the time they are born and the time they die...there's nothing confusing about improving the quality of life, no matter how long a dog lives.

i think you do the best you can with what you've got and what you believe in...and if your dog thrives, then you can sleep at night.

 

[buddy97]

Yes, anyone has a right to be concerned if they choose but no one as a valid reason.

valid reason. lets say you are walking down the street. you see someone approaching you wearing a ball cap sideways, a hooded sweatshirt, and you think they just look shady. you move to the other side of the street.. why? you had no evidence to be concerned. he has never done anything wrong to you. you (or whoever has done something like this) did this out of pure instinct. is that a valid reason. it sure is in my book.

if my instincts tell me P&G will inevitably screw up Natura products, i feel that is a valid enough reason to step away. im tired of people being told what constitutes a valid reason for stepping away from Natura products. if they have a gut feeling that it wont go well, then i consider that a valid enough reason for them. i would add that most people that have said they are stepping away have not said "im done with them for good." ive seen more responses like "i will keep an eye on the products and see how thing go"

perfectly reasonable in my world.

 

[magicre]

valid reason. lets say you are walking down the street. you see someone approaching you wearing a ball cap sideways, a hooded sweatshirt, and you think they just look shady. you move to the other side of the street.. why? you had no evidence to be concerned. he has never done anything wrong to you. you (or whoever has done something like this) did this out of pure instinct. is that a valid reason. it sure is in my book.

if my instincts tell me P&G will inevitably screw up Natura products, i feel that is a valid enough reason to step away. im tired of people being told what constitutes a valid reason for stepping away from Natura products. if they have a gut feeling that it wont go well, then i consider that a valid enough reason for them. i would add that most people that have said they are stepping away have not said "im done with them for good." ive seen more responses like "i will keep an eye on the products and see how thing go"

perfectly reasonable in my world.

derek...just to play devil's advocate here.....i'm thinking it's not your instincts that make you cross the street. it is your senses, including any history you've experienced, signalling your brain that a stereotypical scene presents itself, so a stereotypical reaction is in order...

not the same as a response...it's a knee jerk reaction..

the study done with tall well built black men and small white women..i can't remember when that one was done...produced much the same fear in the women....

black men were dressed in suits....no one crossed the street. black men, the same black men...were dressed in gang outfits...and women crossed the street.

sorry if i'm not being politically correct here, but you get the point.

the dog will tell the story, as will watch groups and websites all over the internet.

if your dog does well on the product yesterday.....believe me, their systems will tell you they aren't doing well.

feeding my dogs beef liver, beef heart, and llama in one day told me a story...

we live. we learn.

but if we panic just because there is a buyout....nah...

my g'd...whatever will we do if they actually improve the product, rather than degrade it....that way, they can raise the price

 

[RawFedDogs]

if they have a gut feeling that it wont go well, then i consider that a valid enough reason for them.

Taking any action about anything from gut feeling based on nothing concrete is nothing more than hysteria. It's practically the definition of hysteria.

 

[buddy97]

derek...just to play devil's advocate here.....i'm thinking it's not your instincts that make you cross the street. it is your senses, including any history you've experienced, signalling your brain that a stereotypical scene presents itself, so a stereotypical reaction is in order...

yes, it is my senses..my gut instinct that makes me cross the street. i have never had any history of a negative encounter passing anyone on the street, so my personal history isnt guiding me.

its just one example. its still a gut instinct of what "could" happen. there is nothing wrong with reacting to ones gut instinct, and in the case of P&G it harms no one.

ive had lots of time to consider the P&G acquisition of Natura, so it is certainly not a knee jerk reaction at this point. my instincts have not changed. i believe their is a good likleihood that Natura products will go downhill over time, so i consider it reasonable to no longer feed their products rather than wait til they change.

now, for current Natura feeders who have dogs who really do well on Natura products and feel there are not better option out there, i think they are perfectly reasonable in sticking with Natura. im just not one of them..i personally have found what i consider better options overall, so dropping Natura becomes even more reasonable with the P&G acquisition just being one piece of the puzzle.

 

[buddy97]

Taking any action about anything from gut feeling based on nothing concrete is nothing more than hysteria. It's practically the definition of hysteria.

not exactly, otherwise, anyone crossing the street in my scenario would be hysterical in your definition, when all they are acting upon is gut instinct.

hysteria

1 : a psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the psychic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral functions
2 : behavior exhibiting overwhelming or unmanageable fear or emotional excess