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Discussion Starter #1
I heard at my local pet store (awesome store for dog food) about issues that are surfacing with these products. Diarrhia, vomitting and lose stools, damn they were a great product until Procter and crap bought them. I bought my last bag of CN and only because it was from their last batch. I really liked feeding CN in the AM because it had very few ingredients and Orijen in the evening.
 

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I heard at my local pet store (awesome store for dog food) about issues that are surfacing with these products. Diarrhia, vomitting and lose stools, damn they were a great product until Procter and crap bought them. I bought my last bag of CN and only because it was from their last batch. I really liked feeding CN in the AM because it had very few ingredients and Orijen in the evening.
This entire statement is so suspect, I can't even begin to list the holes:

- "I heard"... from whom? Was it people who had the problems? Did you actually speak anyone first hand? Or just "someone who works at the pet store"?

- "issues that are surfacing with these products." Are these first time users or long time users? IOW, is this a case of "before" and "after" or people who have just switched their dog to Natura?

Again, I am asking that people not post unsubstantiated rumours & innuendo but actually put up facts. We really don't need to add fuel to this particular fire.

 

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Well, I think I had already posted about this in the thread about the takeover and no one responded but, the store that carried the Orijen/Acana/Evo/Innova/CN line in my hometown no longer carries any of the Natura products. Larry said he was suspect before they actually announced the takeover as dogs that were eating the Innova line were suddenly getting diarreah and sometimes vomiting, as soon as he got the buyout notice he put a sale on all the Natura products and hasn't reordered a product from them.
So, I don't think people are blowin smoke, only that people will believe what they chose to believe.
 

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Well, I think I had already posted about this in the thread about the takeover and no one responded but, the store that carried the Orijen/Acana/Evo/Innova/CN line in my hometown no longer carries any of the Natura products. Larry said he was suspect before they actually announced the takeover as dogs that were eating the Innova line were suddenly getting diarreah and sometimes vomiting, as soon as he got the buyout notice he put a sale on all the Natura products and hasn't reordered a product from them.
So, I don't think people are blowin smoke, only that people will believe what they chose to believe.
I will believe that there is a problem when there is EVIDENCE there is a problem. You talked with someone who "said he was suspect". Suspicion is not proof. And third party "suspicions" (AKA hearsay) are even less proof.

Can "Larry" point to a specific dog and say "Rover was fine on lot #12345 of Innova EVO XYZ. However, when Rover ate lot #23456 of Innova XYZ he developed diarrhea and vomiting. At that time the dog wasn't eating anything else other than Innova EVO XYZ. After he went off lot #23456 of Innova XYZ his symptoms disappeared." ???

For example, go to Apple's iPhone Support forum & look at the actual horror stories from people with the 3G who tried to install the latest version of the operating system (OS4). Now THAT'S proof that there's a problem. :eek:





 

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not saying changes have occurred or not with natura products, but there are all types of subtle changes that can be made for which there will never be any "EVIDENCE"....source changes, quality control procedures, to name a couple...and of course any manufacturer can do these things and they arent going to be announcing it to any customers. x company isnt going to suddenly announce "hey everyone, we are now sourcing one of the lowest grade turkey meals and chicken meals in the country", are they?

im just happy i dont need to feed any Natura products and am extremely happy with what i feed. i think in a couple years it will be clear, one way or another, in what direction P&G will have taken Natura. AGAIN, if they stay true to their word, all the better.
 

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not saying changes have occurred or not with natura products, but there are all types of subtle changes that can be made for which there will never be any "EVIDENCE"....source changes, quality control procedures, to name a couple...and of course any manufacturer can do these things and they arent going to be announcing it to any customers. x company isnt going to suddenly announce "hey everyone, we are now sourcing one of the lowest grade turkey meals and chicken meals in the country", are they?
Wow... ok. So do you make your own dog food? Or feed raw? IOW, if you BUY dog food then you have to trust that mfg, don't you?

im just happy i dont need to feed any Natura products and am extremely happy with what i feed. i think in a couple years it will be clear, one way or another, in what direction P&G will have taken Natura. AGAIN, if they stay true to their word, all the better.
I too am happy with what I am feeding my dog. I saved the "wrapper" from the last bag of food we bought him (pre-P&G) and will be saving the others for comparison.

I can assure you if I see a difference worth sharing, I'll do so.

 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
This is no rumor lady. I was informed by the people who run the Natural pet store in Edmonds, WA. If you don't want to believe the facts, so be it. You might wanna buy some bags of Eukanuba and Iams and check out those products. Both were decent dog foods before p & g got their hands on those products. IT ISN'T THE INGREDIENT LIST THEY ARE CHANGING, THEY ARE BUYING LOWER QUAILIY PRODUCTS. Included is there fish and fish meals.. You can also get lower grades of rice and brown rice. Some people just don't learn..
 

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Wow... ok. So do you make your own dog food? Or feed raw? IOW, if you BUY dog food then you have to trust that mfg, don't you?



I too am happy with what I am feeding my dog. I saved the "wrapper" from the last bag of food we bought him (pre-P&G) and will be saving the others for comparison.

I can assure you if I see a difference worth sharing, I'll do so.


Sub,

While I agree w/ some of what you are saying...you really ARE playing with fire by staying with anything P & G puts out.

Anything negative we say about P & G isn't done to hurt you...its said and done to HELP you and your Dog.

How could you think P & G has your interest at heart with whats been documented on the Animal testing they do, the foods they put out(Iams, Euk)....NOTHING they do is in the INTEREST of our Dogs.
 

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This is no rumor lady. I was informed by the people who run the Natural pet store in Edmonds, WA. If you don't want to believe the facts, so be it. You might wanna buy some bags of Eukanuba and Iams and check out those products. Both were decent dog foods before p & g got their hands on those products. IT ISN'T THE INGREDIENT LIST THEY ARE CHANGING, THEY ARE BUYING LOWER QUAILIY PRODUCTS. Included is there fish and fish meals.. You can also get lower grades of rice and brown rice. Some people just don't learn..
Ah... angry red letters. Unfortunately, it doesn't make up for the lack of actual evidence.

To reiterate: If there is direct evidence, please post it. Otherwise it is rumour & hearsay.

 

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This is no rumor lady. I was informed by the people who run the Natural pet store in Edmonds, WA. If you don't want to believe the facts, so be it. You might wanna buy some bags of Eukanuba and Iams and check out those products. Both were decent dog foods before p & g got their hands on those products. IT ISN'T THE INGREDIENT LIST THEY ARE CHANGING, THEY ARE BUYING LOWER QUAILIY PRODUCTS. Included is there fish and fish meals.. You can also get lower grades of rice and brown rice. Some people just don't learn..
German,

No, they were never good foods. I DID look up an old ingredient list on Eukanuba. It never had much meat and has always been litterred with Corn and Grain. We can debate semantics("decent") but NO, Iams and Eukanuba were always pretty crap foods compared to the TRUE premium food of today(Orijen/Acana...)...

Heck, I'd even place Taste of the Wild FAR above what Iams or Eukanuba EVER was.
 
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Wow... ok. So do you make your own dog food? Or feed raw? IOW, if you BUY dog food then you have to trust that mfg, don't you?


I too am happy with what I am feeding my dog. I saved the "wrapper" from the last bag of food we bought him (pre-P&G) and will be saving the others for comparison.

I can assure you if I see a difference worth sharing, I'll do so.

some of what i feed is raw, the rest kibble, and i trust that manufacturer as much as i cant trust a dog food manufacuter..i dont trust any manufacturer 100%...there are just different degrees of trust. do i trust a company that has stated that for several years they have been offering high quality dog food to dog owners when, quite simply, they have not? not much. that is a company that has not earned any trust via that behavior alone. they will have years to earn some level of trust from consumers like me. no harm.

again, if anyone is expecting all important changes to be reflected/announced on the dog food bags...they havent been paying attention for the last several years.


it is simple really. some people trust that Natura products will stay as they are, while others think changes are coming or already have.

im like the parachutist on a stormy day who says: "id rather be on the ground wishing i were floating in the sky than floating in the sky wishing i were on the ground."

why would i feed something that i do expect to go through some changes for the worse, some of those changes which will not be conveniently announced to me in time to quit feeding said product to my dog. i wouldnt, of course.

nothing wrong for those who have a high degree of trust in P&G/Natura..just a different path. luckily, Natura makes nothing so unique that i cant find an equivalent or better product elsewhere.
 

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Sub,

While I agree w/ some of what you are saying...you really ARE playing with fire by staying with anything P & G puts out.

Anything negative we say about P & G isn't done to hurt you...its said and done to HELP you and your Dog.

How could you think P & G has your interest at heart with whats been documented on the Animal testing they do, the foods they put out(Iams, Euk)....NOTHING they do is in the INTEREST of our Dogs.
Let's make something clear, shall we?

P&G is a company that literally makes thousands of products. Like any big company they are interested in profit. It is not profitable for them to spend all that money to buy a successful niche company only to start re-inventing it.

They may get rid of duplicate personnel (e.g. VP of Personnel or Sales Director) but it's not profitable or logical for them to do anything else. Why? Because with this company they basically have a turn-key operation; a recognized product line with well established lines for raw materials, manufacturing, and distribution. It is in an area where they do not have a presence: premium dog dog food. That's why they bought it in the first place!

No company is out there to "care" about the end user. They started a company to make money. There is nothing wrong with being rewarded for the time, effort, & $$ you invested in making a good product. People recognize this & buy that product.

If the Natura product that I feed my dog changes for the worse, I will stop buying it. But I will base that decision on it on fact, not supposition.


 

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Let's make something clear, shall we?

No company is out there to "care" about the end user. They started a company to make money. There is nothing wrong with being rewarded for the time, effort, & $$ you invested in making a good product. People recognize this & buy that product.

If the Natura product that I feed my dog changes for the worse, I will stop buying it. But I will base that decision on it on fact, not supposition.




Sub,

I guess I'd like to think you could exist to make a profit --and--- give a crap about what you are doing to those using your product. Maybe I'm an "idealist" but I don't believe you have to ONLY care about making money.

THERE ARE companies that I believe TRULY do care about their customer. P & G ain't one of em.
 

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THERE ARE companies that I believe TRULY do care about their customer. P & G ain't one of em.
ALL successful companies care about their customers but not to the extent in your fantasy world. P&G is no better nor worse than any other successful company. BTW, you are not the customer of P&G nor Natura. The stores that buy their product are their customers.
 

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It's no excuse to have people unknowly feeding posion to their dogs!!! P & G ain't one of em,,, thats for sure..
That post makes no sense at all. I have no clue what point you think you are making.

ETA: That big writing really does irritate me. Do you think we are blind or what? Do you think it gives your words more meaning or makes your statement more true? What is the purpose of it?
 

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ALL successful companies care about their customers but not to the extent in your fantasy world. P&G is no better nor worse than any other successful company.
I have to agree with Sub and RFD.

I've got to wonder about everyone who is so up in arms about P & G. Have you researched the companies of everything you purchase to this extent or is P&G just an easy target? Are you this vocal about every business you come in contact with?

What about Toyota and their history of lying over the recalls while cars crash? Have you rid yourself of your Prius's and Camry's? What about Nike and their past history of child labor abuses? Do you refuse to purchase any Nike products or watch anything that Nike sponsers?

What about your cereal, ketchup, milk, the clothes you wear? Have your researched Kelloggs, Heinz, General Mills? Do you buy only made in USA products to keep the jobs here so people don't get laid off? Are your clothes and shoes made in China or overseas where there are no labor laws or protection for the workers and children while the textile plants in the US are all closed down?

Do you ever shop at Walmart, who is being sued for abusing low paid workers and ignoring labor laws, while putting Mom and Pop stores out of business all over the country?

Whether or not P & G will EVENTUALLY change EVO is something I will worry about the first moment my dogs actually start showing signs of anything wrong with one of the bags of food. It is not in the company's best interest to change things. Anyone who has worked for a major corporation will know this.

And, I do boycott Nike and have since the 80's after doing much research on it, and I do not shop at Walmart. I drive an American car, and haven't bought new clothes that were made overseas since I can remember. And I boycott tuna....just threw that in because of the overfishing issues!
 

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Whether or not P & G will EVENTUALLY change EVO is something I will worry about the first moment my dogs actually start showing signs of anything wrong !
thats about right.

some folks here act like the decision to drop Natura products shows some kind of disloyalty. as i stated earlier, i dont trust any of them 100%, but i do trust most of the independently owned companies to a greater degree. to anyone who wants to drop Natura and let time prove to be the real test, i say go right ahead.....there are plenty of other choices. you have nothing to lose by waiting.

btw, i still drive my toyota corolla, get 40 mpg, and will drive it to at least 250,000 miles just like all my others. i researched to the hilt what was going on. unfortunately, they acted as unacceptably slowly as just about every other manufacturer, domestic and foreign, on recall issues. i did learn one thing. a ridiculously large number of accidents, once investigated, were deemed driver error ("hey lady, if you push the gas pedal and not the brake, your car will fly through your garage")

never mind, i didnt learn anything new. America is chock full of awful drivers.
 

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CN changed our lives - my dog had horrible diarrhea for the first months after I adopted her - and it was the only food that made her regular. There was an instant change. I recommend it to everyone with even minor similar problems - it changed our lives in that I trusted that she would be A-OK in her tum-tum. She was clearly happier and healthier.

I was very upset to read about the merger, partly because of ingredients but also because I try very hard in our lives (as the main shopper in the house) to buy from smaller companies and producers (i.e farmers markets, local stores vs chains). I think the quality will PROBABLY go down, but not right away. I have not heard anything from our local food store, and she still stocks it. However, for when I need to feed kibble - I always keep some around - I will not be buying CN any more. It is not worth the risk, or my money, to support a huge conglomerate when I can still buy other food from a smaller company. It's just a choice for us that I try to carry through many areas of our lives. However, unless tons of dogs are getting bad reactions to the food since the buyout, I wouldn't believe anything.
 

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ALL successful companies care about their customers but not to the extent in your fantasy world. P&G is no better nor worse than any other successful company. BTW, you are not the customer of P&G nor Natura. The stores that buy their product are their customers.
Semantics, Raw.

Bullsh.... I AM their customer. Without me, Wal Mart and Kroger and the other retailers don't exist. We can go round and round on this one...I understand what you're saying but I sure as hell AM the customer. I don't care what intermediary the product travels through first.

Honestly, I don't get your guys' defense of these monster conglomerates. Even if they aren't the monsters portrayed by some of us, you must admit they are compromised in many ways.
 
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