[LindaP]

Hi Everyone!

I'm new to this forum--and to raw feeding! I am so glad to have found this discussion. I can see there are many experienced and wise voices here!

Short background--I have an 8 month black Lab named Cali. Personally, we think she's a mix even though we got her (as a rescue) from a breeding situation that went bankrupt. Anyway, we don't care! We say she's "Lab enough." I'll post a pic soon.

This first week of raw has been amazing. For the first time in 8 months we know what normal dog poop looks like! My husband came in this morning, all smiles saying, "logs, baby, logs." We had had it "up to here" with pudding poops--or worse. That, and $40+ for fecal sample testing on a regular basis to make sure she was OK. Poor thing has had trouble keeping weight on. And we tried the upper end of the upper end of elite kibble, and even Rx kibble to find something that worked for her. Gas, pooping 5-6x/day, gurgling belly...it was distressing. In one week, that has all disappeared.

I have now proudly "processed" (i.e. bagged) 40 lbs of chicken backs, and 40 lbs of necks! The feeding is a little messy, but I can already tell you I wish I would have started this months ago. I swear she is more content and settled. Almost like she's "fuller."

Supplement Question:
It was recommended that I add the following supplements to her diet--Fish Oil, Vit E, Vit C, probiotics, alfalfa and kelp. We are already doing the Fish Oil, Vit E and Probiotics. Do you supplement? If so, what do you use?

Thanks! Although new here, I hope to be able to mentor other newbies as my experience grows. And I will be relying on the sage advice here to make sure I continue to get a rounded diet in place for her, and learn the ins and outs.

Happy to "meet" everyone!!!

 

[Todd]

As many people will tell you, a dog gets all the nutrients it needs from raw meat, bone, and organ meat. It doesn't NEED anything else, but if you're someone like myself who like to compromise to be safe, try just adding a bit of fruits and vegetables. Personally, I use some spirulina and kelp as well. I would also recommend the fish oil, for it is a great joint lube as well as a great source of omega acids. Again, some will argue that all the dog needs is meat, organ meat, and bone, but if anything, these things I listed for you couldn't hurt. I my opinion, how couldn't some of these things be nutritious for a dog? I the wild, a wolf doesn't have ready access to some of these things, so how could they eat them if they aren't available? Just a thought.

 

[jdatwood]

how couldn't some of these things be nutritious for a dog? I the wild, a wolf doesn't have ready access to some of these things, so how could they eat them if they aren't available? Just a thought.

Like what?

 

[DaneMama]

Welcome! Its always great to have raw feeders join! :biggrin:

 

[lovinmylabs]

Welcome! I'm new at raw feeding also. These people on here are THE BEST! Very helpful and always on the other end of the computer when you need them! They have already helped me through some trying times and for that I'm forever greatful! I wish we could plan a big doggie/owner reunion!

 

[Todd]

Like what?

like vitamins and or supplements such as kelp, spirolina, and other vitamens. what i am essentially trying to say all dogs need is bone, meat, and organ meat, but adding some extra vitamens/supplements couldnt hurt. think about people... when we were cavemen, we ate what we had access to. we didnt have things like vitamen supplemens. just cause we didnt have them in the wild, doesnt mean that they arent any good for us now. so just because wolves dont have extra vitamens/supplements in the wild, doesnt mean that they cant benefit from them. same goes for small amounts of veggies/fruits. pureed that is.

again, this is merely my opinion.

i dont recommend feeding high amounts of veggies, fruit, and supplements, but just a small amount to finish off the raw foundation.

 

[J&T]

Good another newbie- as whatever goofy question I don't think about asking some one else will.

 

[RawFedDogs]

I my opinion, how couldn't some of these things be nutritious for a dog?

Let me use the example of Vitamin E. If there is all the needed vitamen E in the dogs diet, giving him more won't help anything. It will simply be excreted in the urine. No benefit will result from giving him more than he needs. In the case of some Vitamins like Vit A, too much is toxic.

I the wild, a wolf doesn't have ready access to some of these things, so how could they eat them if they aren't available? Just a thought.

Nature designed things so that all needed nutrients are in the natural diet. Wolves/dogs of 1,000 years ago had no need for those things just as dogs of today don't. Everything they need is in the meat, bones, and organs they eat. If all the nutrients weren't included in their diet, they would have gone extinct tens of thousands of years ago.

i dont recommend feeding high amounts of veggies, fruit, and supplements, but just a small amount to finish off the raw foundation.

The "raw foundation" does not need to be finished off. It is correct without the other extras.

 

[Todd]

Let me use the example of Vitamin E. If there is all the needed vitamen E in the dogs diet, giving him more won't help anything. It will simply be excreted in the urine. No benefit will result from giving him more than he needs. In the case of some Vitamins like Vit A, too much is toxic.



Nature designed things so that all needed nutrients are in the natural diet. Wolves/dogs of 1,000 years ago had no need for those things just as dogs of today don't. Everything they need is in the meat, bones, and organs they eat. If all the nutrients weren't included in their diet, they would have gone extinct tens of thousands of years ago.



The "raw foundation" does not need to be finished off. It is correct without the other extras.

you've got some very interesting points here. the more i think about it, the more sense what you are saying makes. as far as humans go, they take vitamens because they dont neccessarily eat what nature intended them to eat. they eat a lot of processed foods. a barf diet for dogs is what nature intended. you are correct here. sry about all these questions. i am new to the raw feeding thing and still learning. im really starting to get the big picture here, which is feeding a dog as closely as a wolfe feeds in the wild as possible. thanks for all of your support!

also, as you have said sometiimes wolves eat stomach contents of rabbits and rate. does that mean we should feed our dogs just a small touch of veggies? Thanks:smile:

 

[RawFedDogs]

as far as humans go, they take vitamens because they dont neccessarily eat what nature intended them to eat. they eat a lot of processed foods.

Thats partially true. Most humans take vitamins because they THINK they may do some good. For the reasons I listed in the previous post, most people don't need to take vitamins if they eat a semi-nurishing diet.

a barf diet for dogs is what nature intended.

You have your terms a little mixed up. BARF is a diet that includes 20% veggie slop and a LOT of bone. It was designed by Ian Billinghurst and somewhat mimics a raw kibble. Billinghurst sells premade raw paddies.

The diet many of us feed here is called a Prey Model Raw diet (PMR). It consists solely of meat, bones, and organs. Nothing else. Some here give some veggies as treats but not for nutritional reasons.

you are correct here. sry about all these questions. i am new to the raw feeding thing and still learning. im really starting to get the big picture here, which is feeding a dog as closely as a wolfe feeds in the wild as possible. thanks for all of your support!

Exactly! :biggrin:

also, as you have said sometiimes wolves eat stomach contents of rabbits and rate. does that mean we should feed our dogs just a small touch of veggies? Thanks:smile:

I think you misread that. I said that I have talked to SOME people whose dogs eat stomach contents of rabbits. MOST of the people I talk to including myself have dogs who will NOT eat stomach contents. Dr David Mech, in his 30 year research of wild wolves, says in his book that wolves do not eat the stomach contents of their prey. Again, my dogs have not eaten any plant material in over 7 years with no adverse effects. No I don't believe you should feed plant matter to dogs.

 

[Todd]

ok cool. man your knowledgeable about this diet! I've learned so much. thx for your support!

what i have been doing is feeding my dog the barf diet more or less, rather than the prey model diet, which sounds more natural for a dog. im going to seriously consider switching to the prey model raw side of things rather than barf. thanks!:smile:

 

[RawFedDogs]

ok cool. man your knowledgeable about this diet! I've learned so much. thx for your support!

what i have been doing is feeding my dog the barf diet more or less, rather than the prey model diet, which sounds more natural for a dog. im going to seriously consider switching to the prey model raw side of things rather than barf. thanks!:smile:

Like most raw feeders beginning when I began, I started with a BARF diet. After about 6 months I met Tom Lonsdale who convinced me that there was a better way. Also I had been noticing that the day after I fed the veggie slop, my dogs had very soft poops. I began to get the idea that it wasn't good for my dogs.

Dr. Lonsdale taught me to feed without veggies. I spent many hours with him and learned most all I know today. For the last 7 years I have been helping people with the things he taught me.

 

[rannmiller]

Supplement Question:
It was recommended that I add the following supplements to her diet--Fish Oil, Vit E, Vit C, probiotics, alfalfa and kelp. We are already doing the Fish Oil, Vit E and Probiotics. Do you supplement? If so, what do you use?

Fish oil is a great supplement to add, along with canned salmon and mackerel. Vitamin E and C aren't essential because dogs make their own. Probiotics are only a good idea if your dog is having digestive issues. Since your dog sounds all cleared up and good, then probiotics may actually cause more harm than good, so steer clear of those! Alfalfa and kelp are veggies and completely unnecessary to your dog's diet. All they will do is soften the stools, which is definitely not the goal!

The only supplements I give are a glucosamine + chondroitin + MSM supplement for the hips and joints since my older dog is slowing down a tiny bit when going up the stairs and jumping on the couch. I also give salmon oil for this same reason and because it's great for the skin and coat and helps preserve/maintain cognitive function.

Good another newbie- as whatever goofy question I don't think about asking some one else will.

We welcome and embrace any and all "goofy" questions here so feel free to ask them! :biggrin:

 

[Todd]

yea the only supplement that would be really beneficial would be fish oil. not only is it a great source of omega fatty acids,but a great joint lube as well. just like an engine needs an oil change every now and then to keep running, dogs need oil for their joints to keep running smoothly.

 

[SuZQuzie]

Let me use the example of Vitamin E. If there is all the needed vitamen E in the dogs diet, giving him more won't help anything. It will simply be excreted in the urine. No benefit will result from giving him more than he needs. In the case of some Vitamins like Vit A, too much is toxic.

False. Vitamin E is a fat soluble vitamin that is also more prone to toxicity, just like Vitamin A. The toxicity threshold of Vitamin E is higher than Vitamin A, but still there. Only water-soluble vitamins can be excreted in urine. Don't believe me? Go to the store, buy a pill of Vitamin E, open it up and place it in water. Does it form a solution with the water or remain separate? Go ahead, try to shake it up. Still doesn't work, right?

 

[RawFedDogs]

Ok, so Vit E was a bad example but what I said is true for all the other vitamins and minerals that people often take as tons of unneeded supplements. Lighten up. :smile:

 

[SuZQuzie]

Ok, so Vit E was a bad example but what I said is true for all the other vitamins and minerals that people often take as tons of unneeded supplements. Lighten up. :smile:

I'm just here to keep you honest. If you're not sure on something, don't pretend you are. Lots of people here hang on your every word, Mr. Moderator. The biggest favor you can do for them is to not spread falsehoods.

 

[DaneMama]

I'm just here to keep you honest. If you're not sure on something, don't pretend you are. Lots of people here hang on your every word, Mr. Moderator. The biggest favor you can do for them is to not spread falsehoods.

Yes, we have to all do our best to make sure we are all on top our game and not spreading false information. But IMHO saying that kibble is good for a dog or cat is a falsehood :wink: