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Discussion Starter #1
Well, Rocky definetely has an opinion about this raw feeding. We got the new grinder in the mail and I decided to try it out and stuffed a chicken wing down it. I couldn't smell anything but apparently it put out a smell because Rocky was at my feet in an instant, staring up at that grinder like he'd never smelled anything like that!

Unfortunately the thing was a piece of junk and broke instantly. The people on eBay were very nice and refunded all my money but Rocky was so upset that he didn't get that chicken (it had grease all in it). He pouted all evening and has REFUSED to eat his Evo kibble for two days now. It's just been sitting in his pan. He is still waiting for me to give him that chicken! I may have to start him on the raw chicken sooner then I wanted just to get him to eat again. Chows can be VERY stubborn dogs when they put their minds to something and he really wanted that raw chicken he smelled.

I know I can just hand Rocky the whole chicken pieces, but my husband is researching a new, better grinder. I'm still working on the 'whole chicken' idea with him and just happy we've gotten him used to the idea of raw meat. Plus there are plans to make our own hamburger and healthier food for us as long as we're getting the grinder for the dogs. I wouldn't mind actually knowing what is in my ground beef from now on.

Just thought I'd let you know Rocky's reaction to smelling the ground raw chicken. He can't wait to start on the raw. Should be an easy convert. Chelsy is already eating half primal raw premade chunks because I bought a bag to try and she is doing great on them. No digestive issues at all. By next week I should have Rocky on raw chicken. I may end up giving my last bag of Evo to my son.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's awesome he had such a great reaction! I hope your switch goes smoothly. We should be switching very soon too! So exciting. :biggrin:
It is exciting! We are both doing it about the same time so we can compare notes. I was really worried about Chelsy since she is 13 and spent years on Natures Recipe and then finally got good on the Evo but she is doing really well on half Primal Raw chunks and half 95% meat canned Evo all this week. The only problem is that the Primal has all kinds of extra stuff in it like flaxseed and she is starting to itch now so I won't keep her on it once the bag is gone. It was just to try her out on raw for a small bag. But, her poops are absolutely perfect and she is gobbling up the food so she should be fine once we switch to raw. The one time I gave her the chicken wing to gnaw on she really went to town on it, she just couldn't actually chew any meat off of it.

I am going to get the coarsest blade they make for the grinder and make the chicken really chunky for the dogs. Then work them up to bigger chunks until they actually learn to chew the food and bones. They make some really big grinding plates so the food doesn't end up too fine at all but really coarse. It will be fun! Plus my husband is planning on making sausage and meatloaf for us!
 

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I too am wondering how Lucky will do with the switch. She is 11 and has ate kibble her whole life (luckily she has been on decent kibble, but still...). I am hoping that she will really take to it as she is not picky at all and will eat just about anything. Duncan will do great, I am almost sure of it. He is a pig and always hungry!

I hope the switch to raw really helps Chelsy. I am sure it will and you will wonder why you didn't switch sooner! :tongue: How do you think Rocky will do? From the sounds of your first post he's ready and chompin at the bit! :biggrin:

We must compare notes! I am probably going to start the switch on Monday. When do you think you'll have your new grinder?
 

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Just thought I'd throw out that when my 15 year old senior girl was losing weight I started giving her raw in the morning and her kibble at night mixed with cottage cheese, yogurt and stuff. I was too afraid to try all raw with her being so old. I started just giving her raw chicken quarters in the morning and she would take about 15-20 minutes to eat it but she loved it. And, best of all her teeth, which I thought were a lost cause, looked much better after a very short time. Okay, that wasn't the best of all, the best was watching her enjoy it.

Sometimes these old ones surprise us. I now wish I would have just switched her and the pup (who is no longer a pup) back then 100%. You live and learn.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just thought I'd throw out that when my 15 year old senior girl was losing weight I started giving her raw in the morning and her kibble at night mixed with cottage cheese, yogurt and stuff. I was too afraid to try all raw with her being so old. I started just giving her raw chicken quarters in the morning and she would take about 15-20 minutes to eat it but she loved it. And, best of all her teeth, which I thought were a lost cause, looked much better after a very short time. Okay, that wasn't the best of all, the best was watching her enjoy it.

Sometimes these old ones surprise us. I now wish I would have just switched her and the pup (who is no longer a pup) back then 100%. You live and learn.
I'm hoping that switching Chelsy now at age 13 will help her. Lhasa's are usually one of the longer lived dogs (My last one was over 16 on plain Purina food her whole life) so I'm hoping to get many more years from her once I switch her to raw. It's nice to hear from someone who switched an older dog and had success with it.
 

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my ten and a half year old corgi mix malia.....is doing great on raw...

i learned a valuable lesson with a 13 1/2 year old shih tzu who had severe periodontal disease....it was too late for her, but i think now..i would not hesitate in switching....
 

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my ten and a half year old corgi mix malia.....is doing great on raw...

i learned a valuable lesson with a 13 1/2 year old shih tzu who had severe periodontal disease....it was too late for her, but i think now..i would not hesitate in switching....
I got my first Lhasa back in 1978. We gave her just Pedigree dog food but also gave her a lot of 'soup bones' i.e. knuckle bones to chew on because that's what you gave to dogs them. Living in Florida, we would freeze them and then give them to the dogs frozen to cool them off. I think giving the dogs the big raw soup bones all the time actually helped compensate for the crummy dog food although I didn't know it at the time. She had some teeth and eye problems and a neck joint problem but nothing too severe and lived to be over 16 and I think it was the gnawing away on the raw bones all the time that did it.

I never associated it at the time because that is about when they started telling everyone to never give your dogs bones and only give them dog food and NO HIGH Protein for Lhasa's or old dogs....etc etc etc .....blah blah blah
 

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I got my first Lhasa back in 1978. We gave her just Pedigree dog food but also gave her a lot of 'soup bones' i.e. knuckle bones to chew on because that's what you gave to dogs them. Living in Florida, we would freeze them and then give them to the dogs frozen to cool them off. I think giving the dogs the big raw soup bones all the time actually helped compensate for the crummy dog food although I didn't know it at the time. She had some teeth and eye problems and a neck joint problem but nothing too severe and lived to be over 16 and I think it was the gnawing away on the raw bones all the time that did it.

I never associated it at the time because that is about when they started telling everyone to never give your dogs bones and only give them dog food and NO HIGH Protein for Lhasa's or old dogs....etc etc etc .....blah blah blah
we used to do the same thing with the small marrow bones....except we boiled them to death and cooled them and fed them to the dogs....that wasn't a good idea at all...

then again, i had never seen such a case of tooth disease until this latest shih tzu....most of my other dogs, in spite of us, had pretty good teeth...

i just never associated until well, recently....when tom lonsdale said, and i paraphrase...that when a pup weans to puppy chow, they develop gingivitis...which progresses throughout their lives......

i've had that and it's not comfortable, so that's what began to gnaw at me....that my dogs were never really comfortable...and had no means to tell me....

and now my dogs gnaw on raw....:)
 

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I got my first Lhasa back in 1978. We gave her just Pedigree dog food but also gave her a lot of 'soup bones' i.e. knuckle bones to chew on because that's what you gave to dogs then.
I get knuckle bones from a meat-selling guy at a nearby farmer's market. Should I not be giving knuckle bones? Maybe I'm misreading (haven't had my coffee yet) but it seems like you are implying knuckle bones should not be fed. I also give her beef marrow bones, lamb marrow bones, a pig femur once, and have access to turkey necks I've been considering trying (she gets bored with anything she has access to on a regular basis, so I have to switch it up). Are these all ok or is there more I should know?
 

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I get knuckle bones from a meat-selling guy at a nearby farmer's market. Should I not be giving knuckle bones?
That is correct. There is a risk when feeding dogs the weight bearing bones of larger animals that the dog will crack or chip a tooth. It's very common. Look at how dense a a beef femur (marrow bone) is. Compare that to the cross section of a rib or non weight bearing bone. Any super dense bone has the capability of breaking a tooth.

Poultry femurs are fine for most dogs (real small dogs will have trouble with chicken and medium size dogs may have trouble with turkey femurs). Lamb is probably fine for most dogs. The jury is out on pork. Some hogs are mighty heavy and have very dense leg bones (look at a home bone). Beef femurs are definitely a no-no. Ribs are much better when it comes to beef and pork.
 

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I get knuckle bones from a meat-selling guy at a nearby farmer's market. Should I not be giving knuckle bones? Maybe I'm misreading (haven't had my coffee yet) but it seems like you are implying knuckle bones should not be fed. I also give her beef marrow bones, lamb marrow bones, a pig femur once, and have access to turkey necks I've been considering trying (she gets bored with anything she has access to on a regular basis, so I have to switch it up). Are these all ok or is there more I should know?
Knuckle bones and other weight bearing bones can be hazardous to teeth. More so for larger dogs. Dogs can chomp down hard enough on those thick bones to break their teeth. Knuckle bones and marrow bones from large animals like cows are built for carrying 1000+ pounds and are very dense. Some dogs can chew on these with no problem but others can absolutely break their teeth. I see it all the time doing dentals on dogs. They will come in and have to have that broken tooth extracted. Then they don't chew as well on that side of their mouth which will cause tartar buildup. Which is not good at all. To me it's not worth the risk to give these types of bones.

An appropriate alternative are raw beef ribs. These bones are dense enough to satiate an aggressive chewer and they will last, but not so dense to break teeth. This is what I suggest you offer.
 

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My dog's not really much of an aggressive chewer. I think she likes the flavor and could care less about the rest of it. She'll usually try to get any meat off the outside, then lick the marrow out, maybe chew a little, then she leaves it. So is she possibly a candidate for being able to be given these bones?

Also, why are high quality raw food companies selling marrow bones if they're so dangerous? And if we're going with the it's-what-they-do-in-nature theory wouldn't it stand to reason they'd chew on these types of bones? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just hoping to gather more info :smile:
 

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Also, why are high quality raw food companies selling marrow bones if they're so dangerous? And if we're going with the it's-what-they-do-in-nature theory wouldn't it stand to reason they'd chew on these types of bones? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just hoping to gather more info :smile:
First, they are cheap, and therefore very profitable. Second, they are easy to sell because consumers think they are great for dogs. You have to understand that the pet food companies sell and market products aimed at humans, not dogs. The dogs don't walk into the store, select their favorite items, and plunk down their plastic at the register. Their humans do, and the dog food companies know it.

In nature, a dog won't waste its time on a bone that is too big or too difficult for it to eat as long as there are other options available. I often find leg bones from deer in the woods, and nothing else. I'm pretty sure the coyotes are taking the best parts and leaving the stuff behind that isn't essential to their diet.
 

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My dog's not really much of an aggressive chewer. I think she likes the flavor and could care less about the rest of it. She'll usually try to get any meat off the outside, then lick the marrow out, maybe chew a little, then she leaves it. So is she possibly a candidate for being able to be given these bones?

Also, why are high quality raw food companies selling marrow bones if they're so dangerous? And if we're going with the it's-what-they-do-in-nature theory wouldn't it stand to reason they'd chew on these types of bones? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just hoping to gather more info :smile:
i think the answer is because they can.

there is a boutique dog store in my area who routinely feeds their rescues knuckle and femur bones to their small and large dogs...has for thirty years, according to the nice lady....

but i also think....that chicken wings used to be given away and then someone found out they could be made into america's most popular snack food and now they go for 2.99 a pound or thereabouts...

i think, personally, you have to know your dog...if your dog is an aggressive chewer, then really hard bones are a no no...broken teeth are expensive...

if you have a dog who just likes to smell it, lick it, give it a gentle gnaw because they are lazy chewers, then why not.

i won't do it because i don't have that kind of dog LOL...both of mine would try to eat the whole thing....:)
 

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Knuckle bones and other weight bearing bones can be hazardous to teeth. More so for larger dogs. Dogs can chomp down hard enough on those thick bones to break their teeth. Knuckle bones and marrow bones from large animals like cows are built for carrying 1000+ pounds and are very dense. Some dogs can chew on these with no problem but others can absolutely break their teeth. I see it all the time doing dentals on dogs. They will come in and have to have that broken tooth extracted. Then they don't chew as well on that side of their mouth which will cause tartar buildup. Which is not good at all. To me it's not worth the risk to give these types of bones.
This brings up an issue I've been wondering about. Is it your thinking that dogs should not be given beef marrow bones even for recreational chewing? I've given them at times to my dog (70+ lb retriever) for short periods of time. These are bones completely stripped of meat. He gnaws at them but not as forcefully as he does with a chicken leg.

An appropriate alternative are raw beef ribs. These bones are dense enough to satiate an aggressive chewer and they will last, but not so dense to break teeth. This is what I suggest you offer.
Do you give ribs as part of a meal or for recreational chewing, then? And do you let your dogs consume the entire rib bone?

Thanks!
 

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This brings up an issue I've been wondering about. Is it your thinking that dogs should not be given beef marrow bones even for recreational chewing? I've given them at times to my dog (70+ lb retriever) for short periods of time. These are bones completely stripped of meat. He gnaws at them but not as forcefully as he does with a chicken leg.
I can't tell you how many labs I've seen over the years who've come in with horribly chipped and broken teeth from these bones. The owners say that they've always given them with no problems but what you have to realize is that all it takes is one chomp that makes it a disaster. Some of these dogs come in just for routine checks or an infection has set in and their faces swell up from an infected root. It's not a great situation and it's something that I would avoid at all costs because a $5 marrow or knuckle bone at the store can turn into a $500 dental catastrophe!

Do you give ribs as part of a meal or for recreational chewing, then? And do you let your dogs consume the entire rib bone?

Thanks!
We don't give ribs bones as a meal but strictly a rec bone. They chew on them well for a few days and then we replace them once every week or two. Our dogs don't actually consume the bone, but i've known dogs that do. They are not a bone I would classify as consumable for most dogs.
 

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This brings up an issue I've been wondering about. Is it your thinking that dogs should not be given beef marrow bones even for recreational chewing? I've given them at times to my dog (70+ lb retriever) for short periods of time. These are bones completely stripped of meat. He gnaws at them but not as forcefully as he does with a chicken leg.
I never thought Shiloh chewed on them hard enough to break a tooth til we discovered she had broken on of her upper carnasial teeth. She can't chew meat & bones well on that side now so she's developing tartar on the teeth around where the other tooth used to be :frown:

I'll NEVER EVER let my dogs near a marrow bone again

Do you give ribs as part of a meal or for recreational chewing, then? And do you let your dogs consume the entire rib bone?

Thanks!
They get beef ribs as a rec bone. They won't consume beef ribs entirely simply because they're still pretty dense bones. They will usually gnaw off small pieces here and there.

Pork ribs on the other hand are devoured in entirety.
 

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He gnaws at them but not as forcefully as he does with a chicken leg.
That's pretty much what my retriever does too. Maybe it's the lab's "soft mouth" :wink:


And thanks to everyone else for the info! I think I'll keep giving them to her and if I notice her chewing becomes more aggressive I'll stop. If I can find some ribs at a good price I'll try those out next.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
We were giving these knuckles bones to Lhasa Apso's back then. They were 15 pound dogs with very short jaws so the danger from broken or damaged teeth were pretty small. The knuckle bones were about the size of the dogs whole heads so they couldn't even get the bone in their mouths for a good chomp. It really gave them a workout, though.

I actually looked for a soup bone in my grocery store the other day and couldn't believe what I saw. They had taken the knuckle bone, SLICED IT into 1/2 inch thin slices with a bone saw, put two slices in a styrofoam meat tray and called it 'soup bones' and charged an outrageous price for it next to the gourmet beef livers!!!!

I've really got to find a new grocery store !!!!
 
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