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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking for another grain free dog food to add to Ruckus and Lynn's rotation. We only are using TOTW pacific stream right now. What makes finding another grain free dog food hard is that Ruckus cannot have more than 22% protein. I found a few natural balance LID that has 22% or a little less, but I was worried about the ingredients.

Here is the venison formula
Sweet Potatoes, Venison, Potato Protein, Canola Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potato Fiber, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

and the chicken formula
Sweet Potatoes, Chicken Meal, Potato Protein, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Chicken, Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Flaxseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Taurine, Choline Chloride, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

I am open to other suggestions!
I am also looking at this, but its not grain free. Still, it looks good for a dog with allergies

Flint River Ranch fish and chips
Trout, Potato, Coarse Ground Millet, Herring Meal, Oatmeal, Sweet Potatoes, Canola Oil, (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Oat Bran, Natural Flavors, Blueberries, Cranberries, Rosemary, Grape Seed Oil, Menhaden Fish Meal, Granola, Ground Oats, Alfalfa Meal, Inactive Dried Brewer's Yeast, Dried Eggs, Lecithin, Yucca Schidigem Extract, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulphate, dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Selenium Supplement, Mixed Natural Tocopherol (Antioxidant), Niacin, Iron, Amino Acid complex, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Ascorbic Acid, Iron Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Copper Sulfate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product.
 

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Thank you for pointing that out! I keep telling people who suggest NB's LID formulas that it is just a bag of potatoes but no one would listen to me! I guess you could always add canned food or real meat to them, but that makes it harder to know how much protein he's getting. Why does he only get 22% protein? If you don't mind me asking
 

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YES! I bought the NB Duck because of the limited ingredients and my vet suggested a duck food for my pit who is allergic to Orijen. It did work well to solve the allergy problem, but I do not want her to live on potatoes. That was the first thing I noticed, NB foods first ingredient is potatoes. I don't know. Overall, it's not a horrible food though. What do you think about using in a rotation of 3-4 foods?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
some people disagree but I am a believer that a reactive, and aggressive dog (my Ruckus) needs a lower protein food. High protein has had studies done on it and it does appear to increase episodes in aggressive, reactive dogs.
When i switched him to TOTW high prairie ??36% protein i think???
i seen this first hand!

so even if that opinion on high protein is not popular, thats just what i believe with the studies i have seen, and from what i have seen with my own dog.

does it hurt anything to just leave him on TOTW pacific stream and not rotate? I was worried that if he only ate that he could develop an intolerance to other meat proteins if i did want to switch his protein source at some point in time.
he does get chopped steak, and chicken as a treat. and he also sometimes gets canned food of different sorts added to his food.
 

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Do you have a costco membership? they just introduced a new food thats similar to totw but lower protein , its called Natures Domain, it does seem to have ton of potatoes in it as well, but at least the first ingridient is salmon meal not potatoes and its 24% protein:

Salmon meal, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, potato protein, potato fiber, natural flavor, flaxseed, ocean fish meal, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.



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Another food to look into is Pinnacle duck and potato(23% protein)

Duck Meal, Potatoes, Oatmeal, Duck, Oat Flour, Potato Fiber, Canola Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Organic Quinoa, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, Bromelain, Papain, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B Complex), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
whoa, that food looks pretty good!
I am so glad that costco carries things like that, and kirklands L&R.

we actually do not have a Costco near me.

I guess it doesnt necessarily have to be a grain free food, but i would prefer it be.

what did you think of the ingredients on the fish and chips from flint river?
I have never heard of millet in dog food until today
 

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I have used Pinnacle's Duck and also their Trout in my previous dog. I"m not sure about the protein content but I think it is a decent food. I have also used Eagle Pack Holistic food which is decent, moderate cost, and not too high a protein. My previous male chow who had a lot of skin problems did really well on Eagle Pack Duck and Potato. I have never used Flint River but I have heard some decent things about it. You could also look at Merricks dry foods. I used one bag of their puppy plate but Rocky spit the peas out all over so I didnt' buy it again. People seem to like Merrick foods though.

Just a few more options you can consider. Even Chicken Soup For the Dog Lovers Soul is a decent food and I've used their canned food as an alternative just for some variety for Rocky.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
whoa, that was so long ago i doubt i can dig them up again.

but i have seen it first hand AGAIN since posting this.
Ruckus was doing great behavior wise. i decided to put him on wetlands from TOTW.
it took only 1 week and he was a monster. running around barking all the time, hackles raised, lunging at things...
i take him off of it, and put him on a lower protein food... a week later he is fine. so there is no doubt in my mind that something about a high protein food makes my dog off his rocker.

i know its not the popular opinion, but i have seen it with him. and other people have seen the connection too. and i did see many studies done on it. but i cant find them now.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dry food and canned dog food are mainly two categories, the other is a big biscuit snacks, deodorant crackers, beef jerky and so on. The main nutritional components of various brands are almost the same high prices, there is a special food formula, for all ages and breeds, there are different considerations that can advance multiple comparison. By growth of age, the dog eat dog food for it. Puppy food puppy, adult dog food adult dogs, the old dog food old dog, the dog fat dog Chi Pang, do not be confused, so too fat or large thin. The nutritional content of dry food is relatively stable, the average. Dog from chewing, you can clean up the way dental calculus, itching. But if the problem of urinary stones should avoid eating dry food, unless it is a prescription for the stone feed. Canned according to price level of nutrients was also different. High-priced, better use of the material; low-priced canned, is mostly not crush many of the internal organs of the advantages is the relatively easy loss of vitamin ingredients, better palatability, the disadvantage is more than meat, defecation in odor darker, easier to eat for a long time long calculus. Canned dry food as delicious, but easy to absorb, not so smelly bowel movement.
Choline Chloride
what does this have to do with anything???
regarding a lower protein yet still good dog food, or high protein in aggressive dogs....
 

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Another option is Fromm Dog Food. The Chicken a la Veg, Pork & Applesauce and Duck & Sweet potato are all around 24% protein. Each have the named meat source then a meat meal as the first 2 ingredients.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
yeah i have looked into that food some. seems like a wonderful food, and i like Fromm.
my only complant is the price, but hopefully things will be looking up for us soon and i can get the guys on something better.
im home cooking and feeding TOTW pacifc stream right now.

edit: i just looked at the price. no way hubby would go for me spending that much on dog food. even if we won the lottery.
omg... that is crazy expensive!
 

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Oh, sorry bout that, I never looked at the price. I know it won't help, but I got an email from them yesterday with a coupon for a free 6lb bag if you purchase a 12lb bag. I can forward it to you if you like.
 

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whoa, that was so long ago i doubt i can dig them up again.

but i have seen it first hand AGAIN since posting this.
Ruckus was doing great behavior wise. i decided to put him on wetlands from TOTW.
it took only 1 week and he was a monster. running around barking all the time, hackles raised, lunging at things...
i take him off of it, and put him on a lower protein food... a week later he is fine. so there is no doubt in my mind that something about a high protein food makes my dog off his rocker.

i know its not the popular opinion, but i have seen it with him. and other people have seen the connection too. and i did see many studies done on it. but i cant find them now.
Lol - a lot of people don't believe sugar will make a kid hyper either... I wonder if it's the protein content or an ingredient to keep the protein stable? I'd also love to see some studies! Now I'll scour the net for clues...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
please do, and share links!

i am not saying that high protein will make your dog aggressive or reactive.
what i am saying is that i seriously believe that you can make an aggressive or reactive dog WORSE by feeding high protein.
 

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So from what I've searched, there are some studies...

picked up from here:
Foods That Cause Aggression in Dogs | eHow.com
2.According to research by Dr. Nicholas Dodman at Tufts College of Veterinary Medicine in 2000, fear-aggressive behavior was significantly reduced in dogs fed a low (17%) protein diet when compared to medium (25%) and high (32%) protein diets. The same study concluded that dietary protein had no effect on dominant-aggressive dogs.
However, I don't see any studies regarding the ingredients used in processing dog food (like they did with the children's studies showing that some food colorings actually caused hyperactivity in sensitive children.)

Anecdotal evidence seems to show Iams and Eukanuba are the worst offenders though - if we could compare the quantity of ingredients between those and the dog food Ruckus does well on then we might possibly find the real culprit!

eta: look here: Dog Food to relieve Chronic Dog Health Problems, organic diet for holistic cure

Prepared dog food from the biggest manufacturers contains a range of artificial colours, preservatives and other additives. The link between additives and hyperactivity in children is already acknowledged, so you can see it is also likely to affect your dog or puppy.

The first thing you can do is look at the food you are giving to your pet by the list of ingredients in commercial dog food: you do not need to memorise all the names and details. Unless the manufacturer clearly states that the food is free from colors, preservatives and additives, then it is likely to contain undesirable ingredients.
We all know about undesirable ingredients, but suppose some dogs are sensitive to an ingredient that is used in premium dog foods as well?
 

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I am looking for another grain free dog food to add to Ruckus and Lynn's rotation. We only are using TOTW pacific stream right now. What makes finding another grain free dog food hard is that Ruckus cannot have more than 22% protein. I found a few natural balance LID that has 22% or a little less, but I was worried about the ingredients.

Here is the venison formula
Sweet Potatoes, Venison, Potato Protein, Canola Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potato Fiber, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

and the chicken formula
Sweet Potatoes, Chicken Meal, Potato Protein, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Chicken, Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Flaxseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Taurine, Choline Chloride, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

I am open to other suggestions!
I am also looking at this, but its not grain free. Still, it looks good for a dog with allergies

Flint River Ranch fish and chips
Trout, Potato, Coarse Ground Millet, Herring Meal, Oatmeal, Sweet Potatoes, Canola Oil, (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Oat Bran, Natural Flavors, Blueberries, Cranberries, Rosemary, Grape Seed Oil, Menhaden Fish Meal, Granola, Ground Oats, Alfalfa Meal, Inactive Dried Brewer's Yeast, Dried Eggs, Lecithin, Yucca Schidigem Extract, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulphate, dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Selenium Supplement, Mixed Natural Tocopherol (Antioxidant), Niacin, Iron, Amino Acid complex, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Ascorbic Acid, Iron Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Copper Sulfate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product.
no offense to your judgement ruckus,but how can u say that nb is potatoes,and then consider flint river ranch???? from the ingridients it looks like its all potatoes...and a tiny bit of water inclusive trout..which once the water is removed will be the 10th ingridient
 

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Discussion Starter #18
i didnt go with flint river.
i shortly realized that after posting.

omg this thread is old!

holy zombie thread bat man!
 
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