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Discussion Starter #1
So, on kibble Annie was always solid. Always.
She did well on raw for a couple days, but the last three days she has had some major diarrhea. It's a dark brown, a tiny bit of mucus, and probably 80% liquid. She has dropped quite a bit of weight in the last couple days, too. She was already pretty thin as it was, and we were hoping to be able to put some weight on her with raw. (she never had enough interest in kibble to finish her meals, but always wants raw) but she is SKINNY now. If I up her meals, it just makes the diarrhea worse. I hate to see her so skinny. I can see her hip bones, and way too much rib.
She's on chicken only, and started one week ago today. I use quarters, and was feeding two quarters/ day which is about 1.5lbs. Yesterday I cut the quarters in halves (split the leg from the thigh) hoping I'd see some results, and have done the same thing today. So she's getting the weight spread out in four meals.
Every meal has bone right now. We take most of the skin off, but not all of it.
Is she just going through the "detox" I keep hearing about? Grissom never went through that so I have no experience there, he was solid on day two and has been ever since.
How long do I let it go? I don't even know a vet here, just moved 8 days ago.
Anything I can give her to help?
We're really concerned about her, and I'm at the point that I am having to convince Jon that this is the best for her, but he's almost ready to put her back on kibble. :eek:
 

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I would try giving her chicken backs. Up the bone content a bit to firm her up. Quarters are not as high in bone, with a lot of skeletal muscle in comparison. Do you think you can find them where you live now?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'll have to go looking. I haven't had a chance to yet, and the quarters are so cheap and easy I didn't even think to look. I'll have to call around tomorrow when everywhere is open.
I've heard the backs have a lot of fat on them though, and not much meat? Not sure if this is true, since I've never actually seen one. lol
 

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Some of them do have quite a bit of fat one them, but it is easily cut off. If you can't find backs what you can do is take off some of the meat part of the quarters, so that she is getting more bone by weight in her meals. Also...are you taking the fat and skin off of the quarters? If not I would try doing that as well as taking some of the muscle off and just giving it to Grissom...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
They usually dont have much fat on them at all, and we never took the skin off for grissom but have been for Annie.
All the butchers I seem to find are really really high end. I don't know how to find what I'm looking for. :frown:
 

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Henderson, NV
There's one place that will order then for $2.16/lb.
That just doesn't seem right to me. I buy 10lbs of quarters for $6 at Wal Mart.
 

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There's one place that will order then for $2.16/lb.
That just doesn't seem right to me. I buy 10lbs of quarters for $6 at Wal Mart.
How far is that from Vegas? There would have to be a meat distributor in that size of a city...here is one I googled...might check it out.

Superior Meat Distributors - Google Maps
 

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So, on kibble Annie was always solid. Always.
She did well on raw for a couple days, but the last three days she has had some major diarrhea. It's a dark brown, a tiny bit of mucus, and probably 80%liquid.
The main causes of soft, runny, or watery stools in newly switched dogs are:
1. Too much food - Feed smaller meals
2. Too much fat - Remove skin and excess fat from food IF you have a problem
3. Organs added too early in the diet - wait a couple of months to feed organs
4. Too much variety too early in the diet
5. Not enough bone in the diet - Feed more bone

I realize these don't all apply to you but just thought I would post it for the benefit of others.

She has dropped quite a bit of weight in the last couple days, too. She was already pretty thin as it was, and we were hoping to be able to put some weight on her with raw. (she never had enough interest in kibble to finish her meals, but always wants raw) but she is SKINNY now. If I up her meals, it just makes the diarrhea worse. I hate to see her so skinny. I can see her hip bones, and way too much rib.
You are trying to accomplish two goals at once here and I think they are inteferring with each other. You are trying to switch to raw and you are trying to put on weight. I suspect that in trying to put on weight, you are over feeding her. The over feeding is causing the diarrhea which is counterproductive to weight gain.

I would concentrate on one goal or the other. Since she was loosing weight on kibble, I think I would concentrate on switching her right now. That will mean smaller meals. I don't remember what kind of dog she is or what her size is but 2 quarters a day is about what I feed my Great Danes. They weigh about a lb each so that would be 2lbs/day. You may get smaller quarters where you are. Sometimes I get a case of them and there will be a lot of smaller quarters in which case I feed more of them. I have gotten some quarters that were about the size of an average back. I don't know why the recent inconsitancy in size. Anyway thats not what we are talking about. :smile:

I suggest fasting her a day. Then feed her about 2% of her ideal adult weight to begin with. I would cut the skin off for a while. You can up the volume later but for now, eventhough her weight is down, its better to feed her less and if she digests it properly it will be more valuable than what you are doing now.

So she's getting the weight spread out in four meals.
Unless she is a big dog, I still think you are overfeeding. One meal or 4 meals, its still too much.

Every meal has bone right now. We take most of the skin off, but not all of it.
Thats cool just feed less for a while. Her weight is working against you because you want her to gain weight so badly that you are over feeding her to compensate for her thinness.

Is she just going through the "detox" I keep hearing about? Grissom never went through that so I have no experience there, he was solid on day two and has been ever since.
I don't know if I accept the "detox" theory but there are dogs that take a little time for their bodies to adjust to digesting real food. The have to learn to produce enzymes that they haven't produced before.

How long do I let it go? I don't even know a vet here, just moved 8 days ago.
I don't think a vet is going to be able to help you with this problem. He will just put her on one if the Hill's prescreption diets which is garbage.

Anything I can give her to help?
Feed less.

We're really concerned about her, and I'm at the point that I am having to convince Jon that this is the best for her, but he's almost ready to put her back on kibble.
Tell him to have a little patience. She is just adjusting to digesting real food for the first time in her life.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You are trying to accomplish two goals at once here and I think they are inteferring with each other. You are trying to switch to raw and you are trying to put on weight. I suspect that in trying to put on weight, you are over feeding her. The over feeding is causing the diarrhea which is counterproductive to weight gain.
I guess I should have worded it differently. We had hopes that by feeding the proper amount of raw, she would gain weight, because it holds her interest, if it is there, she will eat it. Wheras with kibble, she wouldn't really eat much, and we never gave in to bribe her.
We feed her 2% of the 65 lbs we suspect she will weigh based off of the sire and dam's weight. (She is currently about 27 lbs and is 4 1/2 months old) That's a pound and a half per day, which I thought was what we were supposed to be doing. Please correct me if I am wrong!

I don't remember what kind of dog she is or what her size is but 2 quarters a day is about what I feed my Great Danes. They weigh about a lb each so that would be 2lbs/day. You may get smaller quarters where you are.
Annie is a Boxer. I am not quite to the "just eyeballing it" stage of raw feeding, so we still measure each meal. The last couple bags of quarters have been really small. I remember when I started buying them for Grissom they were HUGE, but these tend to weigh about 3/4 lb each, so two of them each day is 1.5 lbs. Again, roughly 2% of her suspected adult body weight.

Sometimes I get a case of them and there will be a lot of smaller quarters in which case I feed more of them. I have gotten some quarters that were about the size of an average back. I don't know why the recent inconsitancy in size. Anyway thats not what we are talking about. :smile:
This is what we're experiencing as well, and we just buy the ones from Wal Mart. a couple in the last one were almost 2 lbs, but for the most part, they're tiny. We had one that was only 6 ounces.

I suggest fasting her a day.
We did yesterday, and she quit with the diarrhea for a couple hours, but then this morning, with breakfast, the diarrhea came back. Her breakfast was a little over 1/4 lb, chicken drumstick, no skin... if that matters.

Then feed her about 2% of her ideal adult weight to begin with. I would cut the skin off for a while. You can up the volume later but for now, eventhough her weight is down, its better to feed her less and if she digests it properly it will be more valuable than what you are doing now.
But this IS what we are doing now, silly. lol. We didn't take the skin off the first couple days, but when she started having lose stools, that's what I suspected was causing them, so we have taken the skin off since then. Not sure how many days that takes to clear up? Grissom never had issues with skin... or anything raw for that matter. We gave him kidney for the first time last night, handled them like a champ. :rolleyes:

Thats cool just feed less for a while. Her weight is working against you because you want her to gain weight so badly that you are over feeding her to compensate for her thinness.
To my knowledge, we are feeding her the proper amount for her ideal adult weight. :confused:


I don't know if I accept the "detox" theory but there are dogs that take a little time for their bodies to adjust to digesting real food. The have to learn to produce enzymes that they haven't produced before.
I never experienced any of this with Grissom, so that's why I'm back with questions. lol. I guess what I am asking is: is this normal, and what should I expect until she adjusts?

I don't think a vet is going to be able to help you with this problem. He will just put her on one if the Hill's prescreption diets which is garbage.
This is what I figure... but in my mind if I am doing this right, and she is still having issues, maybe something else is wrong with her?

Feed less.
65lbs x 2%= 1.3lbs
65lbs x 2.5%=1.6lbs
we feed right in the middle of that.
some days are closer to the 1.3lbs, some are closer to the 1.6lbs, but they are in that range.
Should I decrease the amount even more until she is adjusted? I'm more concerned about her adjusting than I am putting on immediate weight, sh just can't stand to lose any, she's already to that sickly looking skinny point.


Tell him to have a little patience. She is just adjusting to digesting real food for the first time in her life.
Well I know that. I'm the "decision maker" when it comes to the dogs, he's letting me do my thing right now, but it's obvious that there are heavy doubts on his end.
I had such high hopes with the wonders raw did for Grissom. :redface:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
How far is that from Vegas? There would have to be a meat distributor in that size of a city...here is one I googled...might check it out.

Superior Meat Distributors - Google Maps
i'm going to check it out, I wish there was more information about them online.
Thank you!
and Henderson is pretty much in Las Vegas. I work right off of "the strip" and only drive 10 minutes to work.
 

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So, on kibble Annie was always solid. Always.
She did well on raw for a couple days, but the last three days she has had some major diarrhea. It's a dark brown, a tiny bit of mucus, and probably 80% liquid. She has dropped quite a bit of weight in the last couple days, too. She was already pretty thin as it was, and we were hoping to be able to put some weight on her with raw. (she never had enough interest in kibble to finish her meals, but always wants raw) but she is SKINNY now. If I up her meals, it just makes the diarrhea worse. I hate to see her so skinny. I can see her hip bones, and way too much rib.
She's on chicken only, and started one week ago today. I use quarters, and was feeding two quarters/ day which is about 1.5lbs. Yesterday I cut the quarters in halves (split the leg from the thigh) hoping I'd see some results, and have done the same thing today. So she's getting the weight spread out in four meals.
Every meal has bone right now. We take most of the skin off, but not all of it.
Is she just going through the "detox" I keep hearing about? Grissom never went through that so I have no experience there, he was solid on day two and has been ever since.
How long do I let it go? I don't even know a vet here, just moved 8 days ago.
Anything I can give her to help?
We're really concerned about her, and I'm at the point that I am having to convince Jon that this is the best for her, but he's almost ready to put her back on kibble. :eek:
Yea, good luck with that. It seems like you battle one issue after and I hope some day you get it figured out. Vegas...sounds fun! Stay away from those gaming tables, it's no good and probably should be saving money for Vet bills and such :wink:
 

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i'm going to check it out, I wish there was more information about them online.
Thank you!
and Henderson is pretty much in Las Vegas. I work right off of "the strip" and only drive 10 minutes to work.
Hopefully they have what you need, and everything that you might ever want to feed. Don't hesitate to ask them about their bulk prices on all kinds of things. We typically spend about a half hour on the phone with our distributor...asking about all the good, but cheap, meats that they have in stock or on special. If there is something that we don't normally feed, but is at a good price we will order it...like lamb ribs or something. Good luck and I hope that Annie gets to feeling better!
 

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Im pretty sure Linseys not going to be going out and gambling away her money or gambling at all. But back to Annie Bannanie...

Oaky had a some wicked runs about a week into her raw diet. Some really weird lookin poos. I got pretty freaked out if you remember. Stay strong. I think I would feed a bit less right now, aim for a pound until she gets things under control. I have been cutting majority of skin and fat off of her meat as I think she was having trouble with it.

I had a night where she had cannon butt all night, had to fast her most of the next day. I was praying for solid poop! But she adjusted.

Boxers have sensitive tums. No doubt, switching kibbles can be tramatic on them, switching to raw is a WHOLE new digestive game!
 

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Yea, good luck with that. It seems like you battle one issue after and I hope some day you get it figured out. Vegas...sounds fun! Stay away from those gaming tables, it's no good and probably should be saving money for Vet bills and such :wink:
Actually, I battled oNE issue with Grissom for a very long time. And now am having ONE issue with Annie.
And as far as the gaming tables, lets keep this thread on topic shall we, as my personal life and habits are not up for discussion here. (and being that I am in fact Mormon, I don't see the bars and casinos having much effect on me, but thanks for being oh so concerned)
We figured out Grissom's issue, it was a carbohydrate issue. (you know, carbs, like what white rice is full of) He was totally fine after two days on raw.
I'm not concerned with vet bills after three days of diarrhea when she's only been on raw for a week .

Your sarcasm is not appreciated.
 

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Im pretty sure Linseys not going to be going out and gambling away her money or gambling at all. But back to Annie Bannanie...

Oaky had a some wicked runs about a week into her raw diet. Some really weird lookin poos. I got pretty freaked out if you remember. Stay strong. I think I would feed a bit less right now, aim for a pound until she gets things under control. I have been cutting majority of skin and fat off of her meat as I think she was having trouble with it.

I had a night where she had cannon butt all night, had to fast her most of the next day. I was praying for solid poop! But she adjusted.

Boxers have sensitive tums. No doubt, switching kibbles can be tramatic on them, switching to raw is a WHOLE new digestive game!
Yes, I remember!
How long did it last with her? I am positive it's just the transition. I was hoping that I would be lucky like I was with Grissom and just have immediate success, but apparently little Miss won't have it that way.
She had some diarrhea this morning, but hasn't gone since then, and has eaten about 1 1/4lbs of chicken, no skin or fat. I'm waiting for a BM so we can go to bed. afraid to before we see something! lol:eek:
 

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I dont remember how long it lasted.. it seemed like forever at the time, though. I felt terrible.

Oakleys BMs are becoming more sporadic... She used to go like clockwork.. 3x a day. Now sometimes she goes once, other times twice, and maybe 3 every couple days. Oi. Still feeding her 3x a day. I aim for about 1.25 lbs... sometimes she gets more, other times less.

She had diarrhea two days ago at my parents, and I dont know why! She had only eaten chicken because it was all I had.. but it was new chicken.. I dunno. There wasnt any stressful situation either and she was still eating on the same schedule. I havent a clue what it was from. But she was fine after that!

She had a cannon butt last week after her first day of daycare, but I expected that!
 

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It has been shown that both beef and lamb have a higher apparent digestibility than chicken for canines. Perhaps feeding red meat would be easier on her than chicken?

Also, she may just be a dog that doesn't do well on raw. They do exist, just as there are some dogs that do well on grain-free and can't be on with-grain kibbles and vice versa. One-size-fits-all models of feeding do not work for the optimal health of animals.

I control the feeding of 4 dogs and use 3 different feeds. I control the feeding of 3 horses and use 5 different feeds. To best help the dog, one must recognize this.

The differences can be subtle. For example, with Tobi, the Puppy formula of Orijen was too rich and we had to mix in brown rice with it to help solidify him. But, the Large Breed Formula he is fine on. The differences are minimal, but they are there. Imagine the differences for kibbles and raw and how that can effect a dog!
 

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Also, she may just be a dog that doesn't do well on raw. They do exist, just as there are some dogs that do well on grain-free and can't be on with-grain kibbles and vice versa. One-size-fits-all models of feeding do not work for the optimal health of animals.
I think the one size fits all model is more applicable for kibble fed dogs, since kibbles are so varied in formulas and ingredients.

With a raw diet, ingredients are very limited. Yes, the fat and bone and meat content changes a bit from one chicken back to another, which is why we recommend cutting some of the fat off to help with a sensitive tummy. There is the chance that she is just not doing well with chicken, which might be the case, but I do not think kibble is the way to go just yet. It has only been a week or so that Annie has been on raw. The transition takes longer than that for most dogs. I say just give it some time.

I personally think it is because she is not getting enough bone in her diet...and switching to backs alternating with quarters will clear her diarrhea up right away.
 

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Linsey, I would keep at it. If it doesn't improve with more bone and another few days, maybe you should try another protein source. There have been boxers on BF that are allergic to chicken.. although I've only heard of it with kibble.. it could be something to consider.

I think I read that you should be prepared for the dog to take 2 weeks to adjust. Oak did not have diarrhea right away, hers started about a week into it. It started out with some alien planet lookin poo and went to as bad as explosive water-cannon-butt that had us running outside every few minutes for a few hours in the middle of the night for a couple days.

How long has she had the scoots? Is it straight up explosive cannon butt (water!) or just runny/soft?

Keep her hydrated. I'm saying a little prayer for you guys. I know it is hard to see your baby going through this.
 
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