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Discussion Starter #1
today, nichi died.

she died because we were ignorant.

she was thirteen and a half years old...a shih tzu bundle of joy....whom we let live with honey's mom to keep her from being lonely....she is the fourth of four shih tzus who never lived to be older than 13 1/2

maybe other dogs of her breed live longer; and, actually many do....

leading up to this was nichi had stopped eating a few months ago. this was a poop eater with horrid teeth and we knew not enough about nutrition, never heard of tom lonsdale and thought we were doing the best we could do.

we extended her life because we put her on home cooking...but even that was wrong because it still had carbs and grains.

when we took malia and bubba to the vet on saturday, their teeth were pronounced magnificent..vet's words, not mine.....even though we were told last year that bubba would need to have a dental this year because he has those smushy faced teeth....and he was, in september, a kibble fed dog.

nichi was always a kibble dog....no matter how many dentals she got, her breath, her teeth were skanky.....when she stopped eating, i put her on home cooked, but even then i included 25% grain and veggies....she perked up for about six months until i got the call this morning.

she had not eaten in four days, no poop, no pee, lethargic...

i brought her here and took one look and knew.....

we took her to the vet today..and he looked at her teeth....they were horrid....

we asked if pulling all of them would save her, and the vet couldn't be sure she would make it through surgery...

we opted to let her join bandit, yoshi, and kimba...all of whom have died within the last two years....been a rough year for shih tzus...

i am now firmly convinced that raw is the only way to feed dogs and the proof is in the dentition of my pug and the proof is in the dentition of the beautiful little 8 lb girl we put to sleep today...

while his teeth got better and his overal health makes him magnificent....nichi, with all of my love, mom's care.....did not keep her alive.

so i say this now...

i will never go back to kibble. i will never feed home cooked again.

from now forward, my dogs will all be on raw and nichi, bandit and kimba, along with all those who came before you...i am so sorry....
 

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i'm so sorry. losing a family member is the absolute worse. theres really nothing to say except that we're all here for you.
 
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Oh, that just totally sucks to lose a pup, I'm so sorry. You did the best you could with the knowledge you had at the time. My heart goes out to you.
 

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Oh, that just totally sucks to lose a pup, I'm so sorry. You did the best you could with the knowledge you had at the time. My heart goes out to you.
forgive me if i beat myself up a little here....i didn't even look...

i put more time in researching my cars and televisions than i did my dogs' nutrition.....

ya know that song...killing me softly...well, that's what i did with my four shih tzus who all died too soon.....in two years...maybe it's just too many dogs dying too soon, i don't know.....

but the what if is eating at me today....i'll get past it...for there's nothing to do about it now.....except learn from it..

still....
 

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You just did what a lot of us are guilty of, even though we had the best intentions at the time. I was absolutely gutted when each of my old dogs died, but, looking back, the mistakes I made taught me valuable lessons on how to take better care of the next pup in my life.
Losing one dog every 14 years was enough for me, I can't imagine how hard it must be to lose so many dogs in such a short time.
 

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Magicre, there are no words that will bring you comfort. I can only say
that many of us share your pain. Time will help heal you. Grieve your
loss.
 

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aw i'm so sorry for your loss, it's so hard to lose a beloved pet :frown: just from experience, don't dwell on the guilt you feel because i know you did what was best for your dogs with what you knew, and your dog was loved which is the most important thing, and is more than a lot of other unlucky dogs get in life.

<3
 

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Every single one of your beloved pets was treasured and loved beyond their capacity to know. Despite the information you didn't know existed, the fact that rhey were cherished and loved doesn't change. And in the end that is what matters. The fact that you gave it the best you could with the knowledge you had. Instead of beating yourself up about it, take a step back and remember the good times and happy memories, and take the knowledge you have now through life always. Find peace as you remember all of them.
 

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I am so sorry to hear about this. :frown: Don't be too hard on yourself. Know that your not alone in how you are feeling. The loss of a beloved pet is the loss of a loved family member......:frown: ((hugs))
 

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Discussion Starter #11
but i have to be hard on myself....why did so many people know about raw and i didn't.

i research everything; yet, i was one who just followed the crowd..i never followed the crowd....but this i did.

i am so thankful for all of you...i know that until that light switch goes on, we simply don't know what we don't know.....

i am confident that this shall pass.....and with all of your words and kind thoughts.....

just not today....i'm afraid....just not today.

today is for the sweet little girl whose teeth finally killed her and it could have been prevented.
one day for a pity party...then grieving...then smiling for that bubba and malia shiny white teeth and muscle bound bodies.
 

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Magicre, my heart truly feels your pain. It is so very hard to lose a beloved member of the family but having it happen close together in time is doubly devestating. We rescued most of our siberians and payed no attention to the fact that many of them were of simlar age and we could lose them close together. In 2008-2009, in the space of 9 months we lost 4 of our babies.

Our first loss was 4 years ago now, and Thorn was 12/13 years old. Then in July 2008 we lost Jewel to cancer at age 12, then the mindblower was our young boy Ice who died suddenly at age 6/7 from intusesseption(sp?)in Sept.2008. Then in January 2009 we lost Sandi at age 15 to cancer, and two weeks later Aurora(14) who had Cushings began seizuring along with other intensifying complictions. Needless to say we were a total mess. Healing has taken a long time for us. Now we face the future with Blaze being around age 12 and Silva being appproximately 11.

We used to feed a kibble I would rather not mention, except to say it probably is ranked a 3 on dogfoodanalysis.com for example. Our dogs have always been truly loved and the center of our lives. About 4 years ago I started payig much closer attention to nutrition and drove my husband nuts making dietary changes. It was still kibble though, just much better quality. Then after all the losses we graduated to rotating 3 premium kibbles and cooking for the dogs. Blaze and Silva were almost as depressed as we were at the time and cooking for them really perked them up and helped all of us through a difficult time. We have now graduated to THK. We may one day get past our hang ups with raw.

I firmly believe that you loved your furkids as we did and at the time you do what you feel is best. We did the same. Do not punish yourself for loving your dogs and doing your best based on your knowledge. Sharing our lives with dogs as an evolving process and we learn as we go. Again, so very sorry for your loss, but don't beat yourself up, your other dogs will pick up on it and in the long run it will not do any of you any good. Allow yourelf to grieve but do not complicate it with what if's.
 

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I will say, that it is a great thing that you realize that it was her teeth (most likely- based on my experience with smaller breed dogs and bad teeth). MOST people at my work just don't get it. I applaud you for putting two and two together and figuring it out. Most people don't. So consider yourself lucky to have learned from your mistake/lack of info (I don't personally think it was a "mistake" on your part because if you knew better at the time you would have done something about it...but you just didn't have that final "push" to get the thought outside the box, ultimately marketing got the best of you. If anything, be angry at mass marketing and not yourself). You are a wonderful person for all that you have done for your animals, and ALL the information, knowledge and experience that you have gained through all the recent changes in the past that you will apply later in life.

Go have a nice glass of wine (or whatever will make you a bit more relaxed) and think of all the wonderful, beautiful memories you have <3
 

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Re, I'm so sorry about Nichi, you have always done the absolute most as far as a dog owner goes. Things might have been different, but maybe they wouldn't have been, your nichi knew you loved her.
 
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Yeah, go watch Animal Cops (insert city). That will put help put things in perspective when it comes to owners being ignorant.
Your pup's were truly blessed to have spent their lives with you.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Magicre, my heart truly feels your pain. It is so very hard to lose a beloved member of the family but having it happen close together in time is doubly devestating. We rescued most of our siberians and payed no attention to the fact that many of them were of simlar age and we could lose them close together. In 2008-2009, in the space of 9 months we lost 4 of our babies.

Our first loss was 4 years ago now, and Thorn was 12/13 years old. Then in July 2008 we lost Jewel to cancer at age 12, then the mindblower was our young boy Ice who died suddenly at age 6/7 from intusesseption(sp?)in Sept.2008. Then in January 2009 we lost Sandi at age 15 to cancer, and two weeks later Aurora(14) who had Cushings began seizuring along with other intensifying complictions. Needless to say we were a total mess. Healing has taken a long time for us. Now we face the future with Blaze being around age 12 and Silva being appproximately 11.

We used to feed a kibble I would rather not mention, except to say it probably is ranked a 3 on dogfoodanalysis.com for example. Our dogs have always been truly loved and the center of our lives. About 4 years ago I started payig much closer attention to nutrition and drove my husband nuts making dietary changes. It was still kibble though, just much better quality. Then after all the losses we graduated to rotating 3 premium kibbles and cooking for the dogs. Blaze and Silva were almost as depressed as we were at the time and cooking for them really perked them up and helped all of us through a difficult time. We have now graduated to THK. We may one day get past our hang ups with raw.

I firmly believe that you loved your furkids as we did and at the time you do what you feel is best. We did the same. Do not punish yourself for loving your dogs and doing your best based on your knowledge. Sharing our lives with dogs as an evolving process and we learn as we go. Again, so very sorry for your loss, but don't beat yourself up, your other dogs will pick up on it and in the long run it will not do any of you any good. Allow yourelf to grieve but do not complicate it with what if's.
and we wonder how we get through things....we don't have kids...these ARE our kids....i cannot even begin to think of what you guys went through...

but you made me laugh when you said you drove your husband nuts....to this day, i am driving mine nuts...he also has periodontal disease.....i am now researching that...and coming to the same conclusion...

it's grains for dogs and grains for us that contributes...we are not cows nor are we goats...we were not meant to eat this...nor are our dogs....

my oldest dog now is almost eleven....she lost a tooth a few years ago, because she had a cavity going up to her brain LOL....my vet is funny...

she is now on prey model raw as is the pug and after their exam on saturday, both dogs have 'magnificent' teeth....and do not need the dentals they were scheduled to have this summer....

i was just at the point where i was going to order placque off because i had read so many things about it....i guess i don't have to now.

i am sorry for all of your losses....it's hell for a while....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I will say, that it is a great thing that you realize that it was her teeth (most likely- based on my experience with smaller breed dogs and bad teeth). MOST people at my work just don't get it. I applaud you for putting two and two together and figuring it out. Most people don't. So consider yourself lucky to have learned from your mistake/lack of info (I don't personally think it was a "mistake" on your part because if you knew better at the time you would have done something about it...but you just didn't have that final "push" to get the thought outside the box, ultimately marketing got the best of you. If anything, be angry at mass marketing and not yourself). You are a wonderful person for all that you have done for your animals, and ALL the information, knowledge and experience that you have gained through all the recent changes in the past that you will apply later in life.

Go have a nice glass of wine (or whatever will make you a bit more relaxed) and think of all the wonderful, beautiful memories you have <3
ya know..? it took me so long, though. it took me so long...to figure out that nutro products used menadione and THAT was why bandit's liver enzymes were through the roof...there was no other reason...same with yoshi....
kimba was like a wind up toy and one day, she just stopped.
nichi's teeth were so bad at the end....there was a time she would three to four dentals a year. we tried to brush her teeth...we took her off kibble but weren't going to make mom feed her raw...

here's a question, natalie..that i asked my wonderful vet yesterday as we were killing our dog....since genetics do play a role in everyone's teeth..and it was very well known by all of nichi's vets that she had horrid teeth..and no blame here.....honest....why was it never suggested that we pull them, like we do with humans who have severe out of control periodontal disease...

he was very honest in his answer and actually seemed a little surprised by the question because he said...ya know? i really don't know why we don't suggest that....because dogs don't chew and can eat wet food, pureed food, ground food...even kibble, since it flies down their throats....

certainly, he said, it would save the pet owners a boat load of money every year or six months and the dog would be out of pain....and quite possibly live longer and not have the associated cardiac, liver and pulmonary and kidney problems that go along with these teeth....

we almost put her into hospital to rehydrate and do just that...pull all of her teeth, in hopes that would save her for a few more years....

and then he looked at me and i looked at him..and he said he didn't know if she would survive the surgery and did we really want her to be alone, since whenever we brought dogs in, they always came in pairs because we never wanted them to be alone....even if nothing was going on.....if a dog had to stay overnight, another dog went along....our vets always indulged us that way....

i thank you...it was tequila last night and comfort mexican food :)
 

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Re, good question about the teeth pulling, my vet pulled my cats teeth at age 7 because of red line disease, no ifs ands or buts about it. I think probably they look at teeth as the last resort to take out, but I was happy my vet suggested it and went through with it because my cat was much happier after.
 

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Honestly I don't think a lot of owners would go for pulling all the teeth. They just can't see the bigger picture. I think that is the main reason why it's not suggested. I mean some of our clients have a fit if we just pull one tooth, I can't imagine if we pulled all of them or even suggested it. Even if we tell them it's for the best I don't think it really sinks in. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to see the bigger picture.

Genetics definitely plays a role in dental hygiene. Some dogs just have worse teeth than others even on an appropriate diet. They are less likely to have severe dental disease on raw but remember that feeding raw is still very much the minority in ways to feed dogs. From my experience looking into disgusting plaque encrusted mouths that Italian greyhounds have the worst dental hygiene. Even worse than brachycephalic dogs.
 

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Re, good question about the teeth pulling, my vet pulled my cats teeth at age 7 because of red line disease, no ifs ands or buts about it. I think probably they look at teeth as the last resort to take out, but I was happy my vet suggested it and went through with it because my cat was much happier after.
we talked about that, which is why we almost considered it....but what your cat had is fatal, i believe, right? and not one single piece of tooth or root can remain or the cat dies...if i remember what he was saying through my crying...

my vet thought it was a good question too.....but, now i know that it's a viable option for dogs, even raw dogs.....with crappy genetics....
 
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