[Khan]

So I have a friend who has a Chocolate Lab who is Hypoglycemic. I've read all the stuff about Diabetic dogs and how you need to cut out the Carbs/Sugar; but what about the dog who has the opposite problem? I am talking to him about switching to RAW, and he is concerned that his blood sugar might go too low.
I told him I would pose the question to all you knowledgeable folks.
Can't wait to get your feedback!

 

[chowder]

My son's Chihuahua puppy had hypoglycemic episodes before they got her at 8 weeks old. We immediately switched her to a grain free diet (EVO) and she has not had an episode since. The vet was perfectly happy with us putting her on grain free and she has more then doubled her weight and is a normal, crazy little puppy now. They were feeding her baby food and water in a syringe when we got her (along with Nutro).

By putting the dog on a more natural diet, you eliminate the wild swings in carbs that other diets can cause their bodies to go thru. I would think a grain free or raw diet would be ideal for your friends dog.

 

[DaneMama]

I think getting the dog on raw would be the best thing to do. That way there is not as big of a risk of seizures or episodes becuase on raw their blood sugar doesn't spike like kibble fed dogs.

 

[CorgiPaws]

I don't mean to hijack this thread by any means, but I have a related question maybe those answering could hint on.
I'm reading A LOT about breeding these days, and almost every source says to give the dam vanilla ice cream or vanilla (not low fat) yogurt and a couple drops of karo syrup to spike blood sugar and avoid hypoglycemic issues. They also say to give smaller or weaker puppies a drop of karo syrup to give them an energy boost. In a raw feeding home, is there another route?

To the OP: I would also recommend a raw diet because having the dog on a more natural diet will help even out all the issues like this that kibbles can create. MOST ailments can be cured or at least helped by revertig back to what mother nature intended. :wink:

 

[chowder]

I don't mean to hijack this thread by any means, but I have a related question maybe those answering could hint on.
I'm reading A LOT about breeding these days, and almost every source says to give the dam vanilla ice cream or vanilla (not low fat) yogurt and a couple drops of karo syrup to spike blood sugar and avoid hypoglycemic issues. They also say to give smaller or weaker puppies a drop of karo syrup to give them an energy boost. In a raw feeding home, is there another route?

:

I don't know about karo syrup to give energy boosts in puppies unless it was a dire emergency. I have taken a lot of nutrition lectures for diabetic people since I have a type 1 diabetic son and you avoid any single source sugar or carb unless it is combined with a fat or protein. If you give a simple sugar, it will give a burst of energy but then the person will crash very quickly. You want to have it always bound to a fat or protein so that the energy will be maintained over a long period of time. The standard example is to give an apple with cheese, toast with peanut butter, ham on white or wheat bread, etc. Or in the case of a dog, chicken with rice or oatmeal.

If you are giving the dam karo syrup with ice cream, then you are giving a fat with it, but you are also giving more unneccesary carbs with the sugar in the ice cream. Both of them together are going to give a short term blood sugar spike leading to a crash, and not a long term, nutritious balanced blood sugar level like a longer acting carb and protein or fat would.

I didn't know that hypoglycemia was a big issue in breeding dogs. Maybe in raw fed dogs or dogs on a better diet it isn't that big a problem.

 

[CorgiPaws]

I don't know about karo syrup to give energy boosts in puppies unless it was a dire emergency.

It was refering to smaller, weak (perhaps even fading) puppies in the first few days or hours after birth. And only a drop or two?
It's frustrating because I find a ton of pages and sources that tell you WHAT to do, but very few that really explain why on issues in regards to nutrition during and after pregnancy.

If you are giving the dam karo syrup with ice cream, then you are giving a fat with it, but you are also giving more unneccesary carbs with the sugar in the ice cream.

This is what everything I know about canine nutrition tells me... that's why I am seeking an alternative, because it hasn't been one or two pages that have given this suggestion. It's been experienced breeders on various forums, webpages, and even books on breeding. I steer as clear from carbs as possible with my dog's diets.

I didn't know that hypoglycemia was a big issue in breeding dogs. Maybe in raw fed dogs or dogs on a better diet it isn't that big a problem.

I'm still learning, these are just the things I've come across so far, that I'm unlclear on they WHY of it all.

 

[DaneMama]

They WHY of doing the karo syrup thing is to save a weak or fading puppy's life. Karo syrup is VERY fast acting and there is nothing that is "species appropriate" that will replace the function of this. The "species appropriate" thing that would happen would to let nature run it's course and let the weaker puppies die if it came down to that. But because breeding dogs is an unnatural process you need to save the weaker puppies. Does that make sense?

What you can do is make sure each puppy is getting enough to eat and is getting enough stimulation from mama dog and all the other puppies.

 

[CorgiPaws]

They WHY of doing the karo syrup thing is to save a weak or fading puppy's life. Karo syrup is VERY fast acting and there is nothing that is "species appropriate" that will replace the function of this. The "species appropriate" thing that would happen would to let nature run it's course and let the weaker puppies die if it came down to that. But because breeding dogs is an unnatural process you need to save the weaker puppies. Does that make sense?

What you can do is make sure each puppy is getting enough to eat and is getting enough stimulation from mama dog and all the other puppies.

Yes, yes, I understand that part of it. I'm moreso questioning the vanilla ice cream or yogurt given to the dam during and/or after the puppies are born. Is there any alternative to that calcium and sugar boost, or as a raw feeding breeder, do you buy the ice cream and just do it?

 

[DaneMama]

There is no logic in supplementing these things. I didn't do any of that with Bailey and she was fine and her puppies were fine. Is the main concern you have is that the mama dog won't get enough calcium during pregnancy and lactation?

All the raw feeding breeders I talked to on the Dane forum said they just added more of the same foods to the rations.

 

[CorgiPaws]

Thread officially hijacked, I'm sorry OP! Mods feel free to split this to a new thread.

There is no logic in supplementing these things. I didn't do any of that with Bailey and she was fine and her puppies were fine. Is the main concern you have is that the mama dog won't get enough calcium during pregnancy and lactation?

Not sure what the main concern is... do I have a main concern? lol. I'm looking for any logic behind this very very popular recommendation.

 

[DaneMama]

There is no logic :wink:

Like there is no logic in feeding kibble :tongue:

Are these popular techniques suggested by raw feeding breeders?

 

[CorgiPaws]

There is no logic :wink:

Like there is no logic in feeding kibble :tongue:

Are these popular techniques suggested by raw feeding breeders?

erhhh with the exception of the karo syrup for fading/ at risk puppies... no.

General breeding books and pages aren't writting by raw feeders, though.

 

[DaneMama]

So if these books are written by kibble feeders, then of course you might need to supplement these things to get mama dogs enough calcium and added nutrition.

But on a raw diet, I don't think you need to worry about much at all. I would definitely keep the karo syrup on hand though...just in case.

 

[JayJayisme]

This is simple, hypoglycemia is the precursor to diabetes. They are both ultimately caused by the same thing, which is too much dietary sugar/carbs.

Prior to a diabetic condition, ingested carbohydrates will cause the pancreas to spike insulin to try to control the serum glucose levels. These spikes often drive blood sugar low, which is diagnosed as hypoglycemia. In the human world we often call this a "food coma".

Over time, the constant ingestion of carbs causes frequent spikes of glucose, which causes an immediate, corresponding insulin response by the pancreas. After awhile, depending on the animal's genetics and overall health, the roller coaster of glucose spikes and insulin spikes cause the pancreas to simply wear out until it becomes unable to maintain proper glucose levels through insulin response. Welcome to diabetes.

In humans, it's all the processed food with high glycemic index carbs that has caused this epidemic in our society. If you eat low glycemic carbs, the absorption is slower, thus the conversion to glucose is more gradual allowing the pancreas to manage it with gentle releases of insulin. In dogs, with their short digestive tract and total lack of need for dietary carbs to begin with, I'd wager that the process of developing hypoglycemia and having that graduate into diabetes happens much more quickly relative to the average lifespan of a dog.

Kibble is killing your dogs people. Even grain-free kibble is loaded with carbs, usually from potatoes. Imagine eating nothing but two big bowls of Lucky Charms every day for the rest of your life. How long would it be before you developed hypoglycemia then diabetes? Most kibble is the doggie equivalent of the worst human breakfast cereals and, sadly, it is all most dogs ever eat throughout their entire lives.

For optimum health, omnivore humans should eat mostly meat and vegetables and some low glycemic carbs (like those from WHOLE grains). Carnivore dogs should eat meat (and bones/organs) and NO vegetables or carbs. Sadly, there is no kibble that is truly suitable for a dog, especially a hypoglycemic or diabetic one.

 

[DaneMama]

^^^ While you are 100% correct...a spike in blood sugar is sometimes a lifesaver for a young, weakened puppy. Unless you want that puppy to die, they need an extra boost, and STAT!!! And the only way to give a puppy a boost they need quickly, is to do the karo syrup trick.

You would never see me suggest giving a carnivore sugar to help it out...except for this situation.

 

[JayJayisme]

Natalie, we've already had this conversation in a previous thread. I wasn't addressing the side-track topic of Karo syrup and emergency situations. I was strictly addressing the original poster's question.

For pups/dogs in the middle of a severe low blood sugar episode, sure the syrup may do the trick. But a proper diet will prevent them from ever reaching that point to begin with. That's all I'm trying to get across to the OP.