Dog Food Chat banner

1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I have two GSP puppies, 13 weeks old. They are currently getting fed a total of 4 cups/day dry kibble. If I were to use a homemade recipe (meat, brown rice and a veggie) and cook for them would 1 cup of homemade food equal one cup of dry kibble? Or is there a difference in volume with one being dry and the other moist?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,309 Posts
Hi...I also cook for my big boy. I boil salmon for him, but give him raw veggies. I mix this in with his dinner. He gets 1 cup of kibble only in the morning, and 1 cup of kibble and about 1.5-2 cups of salmon and veggies. I don't know if 1 cup of homemade would equal 1 cup of kibble. I really don't think kibble and moist foods are measured the same way. If I were you, I would start of with a little of meat, rice, and veggies and see how your pups do from there. If they gain a few pounds then cut back. If they start to lose a few, add some more. This is how I was with Aspen. I never really measured things out, except for his kibble... :smile:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,309 Posts
RAW VEGGIES...OMG.:eek:
Yeah, it's working for us believe it or not. He's had them since he was about 1.5 years old. And now he's 4. He's never had diarrhea or other negative things because of the veggies...And he loves them!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,419 Posts
Yeah, it's working for us believe it or not. He's had them since he was about 1.5 years old. And now he's 4. He's never had diarrhea or other negative things because of the veggies...And he loves them!!
Other than not giving him diarrhea, how are the veggies working?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,309 Posts
Other than not giving him diarrhea, how are the veggies working?
Well, I've heard that canines can't digest them properly. Especially carrots. He does fine on them...His poops are always healthy looking and he only goes once a day...No carrots or other veggies in the poop, ever!!

If they don't come out in the poop, I just don't get how he isn't benefiting from them. And I probably never will because I've had lots of people tell me not to give veggies. Why not? He's digesting them fine and he's never had any problems...

About a year ago, I had him on Pro Plan. I know I know, I didn't know anything about dog nutrition. He was on veggies already. But not fish. He looked and acted as good as he does now, so I'm thinking the veggies helped him. I'm sure the kibble didn't...

My brother had a purebred Akita that lived to be 17!! His diet was kibble, little bits of meat and lots of veggies. I've seen countless dogs an a similar diet that live to be really old...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Wild vs. Domestic

Please correct me if I am wrong.

But wild dogs, whom eat exclusively all raw meat diet. Tend to also eat grasses and the like in order to balance out fiber intake. Now I may be wrong but grass type plants are vegetables in nature aren't they? So I do not see how a dog on a natural diet would have problems digesting vegetables. The only difference I see with wild canines, and domesticated canines, is that Domesticated canines are use to human contact, and for the most part trained in some manner. Where as wild canines receive neither. Biologically they are exactly the same.
As with anything in life, when beginning something new, either for yourself or your household pets. Always start out slowly and monitor your 'experiment' closely to ensure the results you wish to obtain, and ensure little to no adverse side effects occur. Always use your sound judgment as a basis to modify or cease the changed item in any way.

Sincerest Regards;
FarmFreshDogs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Ok I see a repeat of what happened with my question below... She asked HOW MUCH To FEED... Not if Veggies should be added...
From the information I have found you start with the the same formula as raw.. 1-3% of the dogs body weight and adjust from that point... I hope this is helpful...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,419 Posts
If they don't come out in the poop, I just don't get how he isn't benefiting from them. And I probably never will because I've had lots of people tell me not to give veggies. Why not? He's digesting them fine and he's never had any problems...
He isn't benefiting from them because with is dentation, he is incapable of crushing the cellulose layer around the plant cells. Without the cellulose layer being penetrated, no nutrition can escape. It doesn't mean it will cause him a problem. It just means that he can't derive any nutrition from them.

About a year ago, I had him on Pro Plan. I know I know, I didn't know anything about dog nutrition. He was on veggies already. But not fish. He looked and acted as good as he does now, so I'm thinking the veggies helped him. I'm sure the kibble didn't...
It would be nice if that were the case but it isn't.

My brother had a purebred Akita that lived to be 17!! His diet was kibble, little bits of meat and lots of veggies. I've seen countless dogs an a similar diet that live to be really old...
I have known old people who smoked all their lives. It doesn't mean the cigarettes contributed to their longevity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,419 Posts
Please correct me if I am wrong.
You are. :smile:

But wild dogs, whom eat exclusively all raw meat diet. Tend to also eat grasses and the like in order to balance out fiber intake. Now I may be wrong but grass type plants are vegetables in nature aren't they? So I do not see how a dog on a natural diet would have problems digesting vegetables.
A couple of points that you missed. Yes, most dogs from time to time will graze on grass. No one really knows why. Most of the time it is vomited back pretty quickly, usually within minutes. It looks the same as when it went in except it is mixed in a yellowish bile. If it isn't thrown up, it will come out the anus still looking like it did when it went in except it is twisted in a little rope. I don't have a clue how they make it into that rope. :smile: Since it looks the same coming back out either end, you can't say it was digested or any nutrients are derived from it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,550 Posts
Yeah, I'd also recommend starting off with about 3% of their body weight since they're just puppies and at this point, you want them to gain weight. This is harder to determine since you're mixing kibble with cooked so what I would recommend is just do as malluver said with the amounts and gauge their weight gain. If they start to get fat just cut them back a little, since puppies, like adult dogs, are not supposed to be overweight, and it can cause a whole mess of health problems later on if they're overweight while trying to grow.

I would also recommend cooking any veggies you add because that helps break down the cellulose walls (something dogs are incapable of doing) so the pups can actually attempt to derive some sort of nutrients out of it. If you notice their stools getting softer on this diet, try cutting out the veggies and see if that firms things up.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
493 Posts
He isn't benefiting from them because with is dentation, he is incapable of crushing the cellulose layer around the plant cells. Without the cellulose layer being penetrated, no nutrition can escape. It doesn't mean it will cause him a problem. It just means that he can't derive any nutrition from them.



It would be nice if that were the case but it isn't.



I have known old people who smoked all their lives. It doesn't mean the cigarettes contributed to their longevity.

what if u puree the vegetables? can they use the nutrients then?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,009 Posts
what if u puree the vegetables? can they use the nutrients then?
it's debatable. But does it sound like a natural diet to you? I've never seen dogs in the wild pureeing their food.
just sayin'
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
493 Posts
it's debatable. But does it sound like a natural diet to you? I've never seen dogs in the wild pureeing their food.
just sayin'
you make a very good point. ill keep that in mind. thx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
From what I've read, it seems that dogs difficulty with digesting vegetables is also due to their having a far shorter digestive tract than humans and many other animals. Many dogs that I've seen have a propensity for swallowing large chunks of food/things. It seems as though vegetables that have been shredded/grated/chopped finely would provide nutritional benefit as they would be much more easily utilized than a chunk of carrot the size of someones thumb. Also, it seems that there will be just as many or more opponents of any holistic dog diet than there are people who adamantly support it. In any case, vegetables in any form are better than the euthanized shelter and zoo animals that go into so many commercial dog foods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I am new here and this may not be the best way to start of but I have to disagree. Dogs need veggies, grains and fruits just like we do. We have changed dogs over thousand of years and they now need the the vitamins, nutrients and minerals that they get from those along with what they get from the meat. I have done a lot of reaserch on this and yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion but just use common sense, dogs have eaten our table sraps since we domesticated them thouands of years ago and now they have evloved to need basically what we need just in different proportions. Dogs are not the same as wolves anymore and haven't been in a long time. And to top it off she didn't ask whether to feed veggies she asked how much to feed, and to answer that I would agree to go with bodyweight and feed 2 to 3% of that and then see how they do if they lose weight feed more and if they gain weight lessen the food or you can add more veggies to keep them full but not pack on the pounds and with large breeds it is better to keep them lean so they can develop properly. I would say if they are getting 4 cups all together start with that and just monitor them carefully and add and decrease as neccesary as they grow. But please also add some calcium and omega3 to their food also. I have a lot more I can add but I will leave it at that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I did forget to add that you should defenitly puree the veggies so that they can digest them and get the vitamins.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
659 Posts
Hi Esme.

Have you analyzed the meals you make with and without veggies and grains? I am just amazed at how nutritious plain meat is. Add some liver and bone for calcium and it is just about perfect. I do need to add a bit of magnesium, manganese and zinc to a raw meat/organ/bone diet plus vitamin E for Max as he is a senior and must watch his figure but that is about it.

To figure amounts I did it by weighing the ingredients and using a nutrient calculator to make up a recipe Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com and compared my recipe to the calories fed in the kibble. Only a starting point though. Since back when I started cooking for Sassy I hadn't a clue as to how many calories was in that kibble so I just started with 20 calories per pound of dog and adjusted from there. Some days that 1000 calories weighed 24 ounces and some days 17 ounces. Annoying it varied so much but that was the reason I always weighed the ingredients rather than counting on volume measure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,419 Posts
I am new here and this may not be the best way to start of but I have to disagree. Dogs need veggies, grains and fruits just like we do.
Dogs are carnivores and as such have no need for any plant material in their diet.

We have changed dogs over thousand of years and they now need the the vitamins, nutrients and minerals that they get from those along with what they get from the meat.
Exactly what vitamins, nutrients, and minerals do you think they get from plant matter that the don't get from meat, bones, and organs?

I have done a lot of reaserch on this and yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion but just use common sense, dogs have eaten our table sraps since we domesticated them thouands of years ago and now they have evloved to need basically what we need just in different proportions.
We don't know that they have eaten table scraps for thousands of years. Thats just a supposition. A few thousand years is not enough to evolve to anything. During this time of evolving, how did their jaw structure evolve? Their dentation? Their pancreas and liver? Their stomach? Their intestines? ALL of these things would have had to evolve to make dogs capable of digesting plant matter. In fact, they haven't changed. They are exactly the same as the wild wolf of today.

Dogs are not the same as wolves anymore and haven't been in a long time.
Yes, they are. "The English word dog, in common usage, refers to the domestic pet dog, Canis lupus familiaris. The species was originally classified as Canis familiaris and Canis familiarus domesticus by Linnaeus in 1758.[10] In 1993, dogs were reclassified as a subspecies of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists."

But please also add some calcium and omega3 to their food also. I have a lot more I can add but I will leave it at that.
A properly raw fed dog who is fed meat, bones, and organs will have calcium and O3's already in the diet naturally. :smile:
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top