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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay, so I've really been trying to get Ellie off her kibble, but she will have absolutely NOTHING to do with raw. She's super stubborn, won't even eat canned food.
Well, I haven't been feeling well lately and have been eating a lot of soups, and she's just all over me every time! So, I thought, maybe she'll eat soup!

So, I put just meat scraps in my croc pot today with some water. The kind of stuff we generally jsut toss to the dogs 1 and 2 ounce pieces of meat that we cut when having a "meat storm" so it didn't REALY cost anything. I threw in some chicken liver, gound beef, ground turkey (they were given to me, I don't generally buy ground) a couple chunks of pork and beef, and some kidney... and then just a bunch of water to make it soupey. I cooked it on low all day. Then, I took it out and minced it up, pretty fine, because I know she won't do chunks. at all.

Well, she loved it!! She actually ate it! I'm so releaved because she's been slightly dehydrated lately, and won't have a thing to do with raw or canned, but this was a huge hit and really got fluids in her! I'm going to try adding fish to it and see if she'll still eat it.

So then I got to thinking, maybe this is a good stepping stone to raw, so my goal is to use this, and start hiding bits of raw into it, to get her onto raw. In the meantime, if she'll keep eating "kitty soups" I'd like to just eliminate kibble altogether, as I feel that this is much healthier for her anyway, and more cost effective, since it's really just scraps that we have anyway. But I need to make it "complete."

I know I need a calcium supplement, but in what form, and how much? (I really don't want to buy a grinder for bones)

How much eggshell would it take to use that? I'm not sure I'd have enough to keep it up.

Do I need to add a multivitamin?

I made what I think is a week's worth, would I just put a week's worth of supplements in the pot after cooking it, and go for balance over time?


ETA: I tried to just google this, but all the recipes included a bunch of veggies and rice, so I kind of deemed them unreliable anyway. Ellie is a cat. Therefore she's a carnivore. I only want to include things appropriate for her. I'd love to just use bone for calcium, but I don't want to invest in a meat grinder that can grind bones, and she will not have anything to do with them raw.
 

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The only thing you need to be careful of is taurine. You need to make sure she has that. I'm not sure if taurine is destroyed by cooking or not. I know beef heart (and probably any other heart) has lots of taurine. I would try to slip some tiny chunks of raw beef heart into her meals. If you can't, do some research to see if taurine is destroyed by cooking and if not, you can cook the small chunks of beef heart with everything else.

I would gradually over time, cook less and less and use less and less water. I have to cut up my cats food into very small chunks. I feed them chicken drumsticks and wings that are not cut up. They eat bone of each. They seem to eat more bone from the wings.
 

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Here is an abstract I found for taurine destruction and cooking (only done on fish but probably similar results for other meats). It basically says that retention of usable taurine after several different cooking methods is not completely lost but is around 60-80% of it's raw counterpart. This tells you that most taurine is still usable after cooking but there might still not be enough to be considered adequate. With that being said, cats are very adaptable animals and can survive on total crap kibble and even garbage.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJH-4N6NHG8-1&_user=10&_coverDate=08/31/2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1328273322&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=180392ce3570495fcd9a259156f9b370

I think this homemade soupy goodness will still beat the pants off of any kibble out there. I have read somewhere that cats nutritional needs are not nearly as exact or precise as compared to other animals and that a diet consisting of just meat and organ should be enough. If you are worried about bones, could you try and finely grind up some bone and put a VERY small amount into her food, small meaning like a drop in the beginning (an amount so small that she won't be able to notice it)? Of course gradually adding more over time, which could take like a year.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't have anything to grind up bones with, will eggshells do?

I'm hoping it's not long term, as I plan on cooking less, and adding chunks in, and "tricking" her into raw. I've tried so many canned foods, from really crummy ones like Fancy Feast, to Evo... just to get her off of kibble, but she would have nothing to do with that, or raw. I'm hoping with her making this small breakthrough, she'll finally get there. And just in time for Natura to sell out! haha.

Thanks for the help. I think I'll get a taurine supplement for her, just in case, and add it some days. And use some ground eggshells for calcium, but other than that, hopefully I'm safe.
 

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You can find a meat/bone grinder for pretty cheap on craigslist or even a cooking store. Eggshells are better than nothing but not as good as bones, but they will suffice. Maybe add in the canned sardines for bone health since those are usually pretty small and easy to mash up. Or even try a small whole raw fish which you could
just throw into a food processor.
 

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I know nothing about feeding cats raw, but would bone meal work for the time being? Sprinkle it in your cats food?
 

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I know nothing about feeding cats raw, but would bone meal work for the time being? Sprinkle it in your cats food?
I would worry about anything with "bone meal" as a listed ingredient. It can come from bones from just about any animal -- not just healthy ones that were harvested at the slaughterhouse. Anything listing generic "meat meal" or "bone meal" can come from just about any animal, perhaps even euthanized animals and possibly even euthanized dogs and cats.
 

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If it's explicitly listed and certified as "human grade" bone meal, I'd not be concerned. It's just that in the general case, "bone meal" can be generically described in pet foods to include the stuff I mentioned before.

If it's truly human grade, no worries. :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well it ended up not mattering anyway, she decided the next day she wanted nothing to do with the stuff (i froze one day portions to keep it fresh) and she's pretty set in that.
So, stupid cat is staying on kibble for the time being. I'll give it a go at the end of the summer again. I'm moving to Utah tomorrow, and Ellie is staying here with my husband who will be working long days and going to school, and won't have time to be messing with kitty soup all the time.
Poor cat. If only she knew she was a carnivore...:rolleyes:
 
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