Dog Food Chat banner

21 - 40 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
Here is a quote from the book "The Nature of animal healing" by Dr Martin Goldstein: "To judge by your local vet's stern insistence on regular heartworm pills for your dog, you'd think we're in the midst of a brutal epidemic, leaving piles of the dead in its wake. I think there's an epidemic, too, but of a different sort: of disease-causing toxicity instilled in our pets by heartworm preventative pills. Granted, heartworm is a serious condition. An infected mosquito bites your dog, injecting microscopic worms that first hibernate, then gain access to his bloodstream. The worms find their way to the heart, where they grow to as long as twelve inches, constricting the heart's passages and causing symptoms that range from coughing to labored breathing to heart failure. If the image of giant worms literally blocking the life blood of your dog isn't horrifying enough-and it can seem more so when viewing a real heart preserved in a jar of formalin, on display in a veterinarian's office as a sales tactic for heartworm preventative-the fact that they spawn hundreds of thousands of baby larvae, called "microfilaria," which circulate through the bloodstream, is nothing short of grotesque. A few caveats are in order, however. Only a small percentage of dogs who get heartworm die of it, especially if they're routinely tested twice yearly for early detection. Even in untreated dogs, after a period of uncomfortable symptoms, the adult worms die. The microfilaria do not grow into adult worms on their own. To reach the next stage in their life cycle, they have to be sucked back out of the body by another mosquito, and go through the other stages of their maturation process withih the mosquito. Only when that mosquito alights again on a dog and bites it can the microfilaria reenter the bloodstream with the ability to grow into adults. The chances of a microfilaria-infected mosquito biting your dog the first time are slim. Of it happening to the same dog twice? Very slim. And after two decades of pervasive administration of heartworm pills in the U.S., the chances of your dog contracting heartworm in most parts of this country even a first time are slimmer still. Early in my career, I saw and treated hundreds of cases of heartworm disease, most with routine medication, yet witnessed only three deaths. By comparison, we're seeing cancer kill dogs on a daily basis. To my mind, the likelihood that toxicity from the heartworm pills is contributing to the tremendous amount of immune suppression now occurring, especially in cases of liver disease and cancer, is far greater and more immediate than the threat of the disease they're meant to prevent. The most common form of hearworm prevention is a monthly pill taken just before and during mosquito season. It's toxins-ivermectin, for example-sweep through the body, killing any microfilaria that have been introduced by mosquito bites in the previous month, and thus preventing the growth of adult worms. Some brands also contain other toxins to kill intestinal parasites. The other approach to treatment is with daily dose of the drug diethylcarbamazine, starting several weeks before mosquito season. The drugs called for in either course if treatment are, simply put, poisons. Unfortunately, while they kill of microfilaria, they have the toxic effects of poisons, and can be especially damaging to the liver.I've saved a product evaluation for diethylcarbamazine mixed with oxibendazole, a preventative also used for hookworms. The evaluation, published by the company itself in a medical journal, reported that of 2.5 million dogs given the stuff, the company received only 176 reports of problems, including cases of liver toxictity and fatalities. To me, 176 is too many. But also, how may more went unreported? The evaluation concludes, "Of course, not all incidences are reported to the manufacturer, so the true magnitude of occurences is really unknown." The manufacturer would argue, no doubt, that many of the symptoms I've seen cannot be linked in any provable way to any of the heartworm preventatives. Perhaps-though the anecdotal evidence has long since persuaded me not to put dogs on the stuff. But I have seen one obvious, immediate effect of these once-a-month preventatives in case after case: when you give a dog that pill, over the next few days, whereever he urinates outside, his urine burns the grass. Permanently! In some cases, you can't grow grass there until you change the soil. What, I wonder, can it be doing internally to your dog in that time? When the first daily preventative came out, my brother and I witnessed evidence of hemorrhaging in the urine of several dogs put on them. We stopped the medication; the bleeding stopped. We started it up agin; the bleeding resumed. When we reported this to the manufacturere, we were informed that the company was aware of the problem from other complaints. Aware-but not about to pull its product from the shelves. All we could do was to stop giving the medication ourselves to the dogs we treated. Since then, the company has changed the product, diminishing this side effect and bringing it into the realm of acceptability for use in areas of high heartworm incidence. The dogs I treat from puppyhood receive no heartworm preventative pills. It may be said, of course, that I practice in an area where cases of heartworm are pretty infrequent. But while my clinic is in Westchester County, just north of New York City, my practice encompasses patients from around the country. In the last decade, 98 percent of my patients, on my recommendation, have not been given heartworm preventative. In that time, I've seen less than a handull of clinical cases. Two of them I treated herbally, starting with heart support supplements (a heart glandular, vitamin E, co-enzyme Q10) and regular doses of black walnut, an herb known to kill parasites. (It comes in a liquid extract form; I recommend putting a dropperful in the food or mouth at each meal.) The third I treated medically, with a new drug (Immiticide) reported to be a lot less toxic than intravenous arsenic, at a lower-than-recommended dosage. All three are clinically normal-no evidence of heartworm recurrence-years after treatment. As a precaution, I recommend that all dogs be tested twice a yearfor hearworm. For clients who insist on a more active form of prevention, I suggest doses of black walnut given tow to theree times a week, as I've actuallyreversed clinical heartworm with it. (For a thirty-pound dog, one capsule three times weekly during mosquito season in areas that have reported any incidence of heartworm.) We also use a homeopathic nosode. In areas where the chances of heartworm exposure appear greater than those in my own - like southern Florida and the Bahamas, where the chances of contracting it are high- I recommend adding to this regimen the conventional daily heartworm pill, given three times weekly. Veterinarians trained in homeopathy can get your pet on a good nosode prgeam for heartworm prevention.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Liz

·
Banned
Joined
·
939 Posts
Black Walnut is a folk remedy. There is no proof it is effective. Black Walnut is also toxic to dogs. Use at your own risk. Just because is Black Walnut is "natural" doesn't make it safe. Its toxicity to many mammals is well documented.

Also, ivermectin is a natural compound derived from fermentation. Toxicity is almost unheard of.

Vets normally dose ivermectin at 100 times the once a month dose in Heartguard daily for extended periods of time. Daily, not once a month.

If you want to play games with something that has a 100% infection rate be my guest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Do you mind my asking how your dog had 3 FHO surgeries? A femoral head osectomy is a procedure where you remove the femoral head. A dog only has 2 of them.
The Dr did not get the entire femoral head after her surgery on her second hip and had to go back in and redo it. So not only did she have an awful time recovering, it was a nightmare, she was in extreme pain until the last surgery and then was STILL in pain because she had a bone shard 'floating' around. Also, because we had such a hard time getting her to recover from the surgeries, we were unable to do the physical therapy until it was too late so she was unable to rebuild her muscle. She walks everyday with NO muscle on her backend. It's awful. ....thank you vet.


Tem_sat, I am confused, I thought you said Immiticide did not work? Your last post states that it did?


Monster'sdad, I do hope you realize that you sound like a vet trying desperately to sell their product. Most vets will give you some horror story about anything from shots to food JUST to get you to buy their products. I have worked for 5 different vet clinics and they were all focused on money only. One vet clinic had over 5 vets working there and I had heard them all at some point in time comment that they could care less if a dog died or not.
I would like you to show me proof that alternatives do not work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sheltielover25

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Here is a quote from the book "The Nature of animal healing" by Dr Martin Goldstein: "To judge by your local vet's stern insistence on regular heartworm pills for your dog, you'd think we're in the midst of a brutal epidemic, leaving piles of the dead in its wake. I think there's an epidemic, too, but of a different sort: of disease-causing toxicity instilled in our pets by heartworm preventative pills. Granted, heartworm is a serious condition. An infected mosquito bites your dog, injecting microscopic worms that first hibernate, then gain access to his bloodstream. The worms find their way to the heart, where they grow to as long as twelve inches, constricting the heart's passages and causing symptoms that range from coughing to labored breathing to heart failure. If the image of giant worms literally blocking the life blood of your dog isn't horrifying enough-and it can seem more so when viewing a real heart preserved in a jar of formalin, on display in a veterinarian's office as a sales tactic for heartworm preventative-the fact that they spawn hundreds of thousands of baby larvae, called "microfilaria," which circulate through the bloodstream, is nothing short of grotesque. A few caveats are in order, however. Only a small percentage of dogs who get heartworm die of it, especially if they're routinely tested twice yearly for early detection. Even in untreated dogs, after a period of uncomfortable symptoms, the adult worms die. The microfilaria do not grow into adult worms on their own. To reach the next stage in their life cycle, they have to be sucked back out of the body by another mosquito, and go through the other stages of their maturation process withih the mosquito. Only when that mosquito alights again on a dog and bites it can the microfilaria reenter the bloodstream with the ability to grow into adults. The chances of a microfilaria-infected mosquito biting your dog the first time are slim. Of it happening to the same dog twice? Very slim. And after two decades of pervasive administration of heartworm pills in the U.S., the chances of your dog contracting heartworm in most parts of this country even a first time are slimmer still. Early in my career, I saw and treated hundreds of cases of heartworm disease, most with routine medication, yet witnessed only three deaths. By comparison, we're seeing cancer kill dogs on a daily basis. To my mind, the likelihood that toxicity from the heartworm pills is contributing to the tremendous amount of immune suppression now occurring, especially in cases of liver disease and cancer, is far greater and more immediate than the threat of the disease they're meant to prevent. The most common form of hearworm prevention is a monthly pill taken just before and during mosquito season. It's toxins-ivermectin, for example-sweep through the body, killing any microfilaria that have been introduced by mosquito bites in the previous month, and thus preventing the growth of adult worms. Some brands also contain other toxins to kill intestinal parasites. The other approach to treatment is with daily dose of the drug diethylcarbamazine, starting several weeks before mosquito season. The drugs called for in either course if treatment are, simply put, poisons. Unfortunately, while they kill of microfilaria, they have the toxic effects of poisons, and can be especially damaging to the liver.I've saved a product evaluation for diethylcarbamazine mixed with oxibendazole, a preventative also used for hookworms. The evaluation, published by the company itself in a medical journal, reported that of 2.5 million dogs given the stuff, the company received only 176 reports of problems, including cases of liver toxictity and fatalities. To me, 176 is too many. But also, how may more went unreported? The evaluation concludes, "Of course, not all incidences are reported to the manufacturer, so the true magnitude of occurences is really unknown." The manufacturer would argue, no doubt, that many of the symptoms I've seen cannot be linked in any provable way to any of the heartworm preventatives. Perhaps-though the anecdotal evidence has long since persuaded me not to put dogs on the stuff. But I have seen one obvious, immediate effect of these once-a-month preventatives in case after case: when you give a dog that pill, over the next few days, whereever he urinates outside, his urine burns the grass. Permanently! In some cases, you can't grow grass there until you change the soil. What, I wonder, can it be doing internally to your dog in that time? When the first daily preventative came out, my brother and I witnessed evidence of hemorrhaging in the urine of several dogs put on them. We stopped the medication; the bleeding stopped. We started it up agin; the bleeding resumed. When we reported this to the manufacturere, we were informed that the company was aware of the problem from other complaints. Aware-but not about to pull its product from the shelves. All we could do was to stop giving the medication ourselves to the dogs we treated. Since then, the company has changed the product, diminishing this side effect and bringing it into the realm of acceptability for use in areas of high heartworm incidence. The dogs I treat from puppyhood receive no heartworm preventative pills. It may be said, of course, that I practice in an area where cases of heartworm are pretty infrequent. But while my clinic is in Westchester County, just north of New York City, my practice encompasses patients from around the country. In the last decade, 98 percent of my patients, on my recommendation, have not been given heartworm preventative. In that time, I've seen less than a handull of clinical cases. Two of them I treated herbally, starting with heart support supplements (a heart glandular, vitamin E, co-enzyme Q10) and regular doses of black walnut, an herb known to kill parasites. (It comes in a liquid extract form; I recommend putting a dropperful in the food or mouth at each meal.) The third I treated medically, with a new drug (Immiticide) reported to be a lot less toxic than intravenous arsenic, at a lower-than-recommended dosage. All three are clinically normal-no evidence of heartworm recurrence-years after treatment. As a precaution, I recommend that all dogs be tested twice a yearfor hearworm. For clients who insist on a more active form of prevention, I suggest doses of black walnut given tow to theree times a week, as I've actuallyreversed clinical heartworm with it. (For a thirty-pound dog, one capsule three times weekly during mosquito season in areas that have reported any incidence of heartworm.) We also use a homeopathic nosode. In areas where the chances of heartworm exposure appear greater than those in my own - like southern Florida and the Bahamas, where the chances of contracting it are high- I recommend adding to this regimen the conventional daily heartworm pill, given three times weekly. Veterinarians trained in homeopathy can get your pet on a good nosode prgeam for heartworm prevention.
I LOVE his book! I have it all marked up and highlighted!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Liz

·
Banned
Joined
·
939 Posts
The Dr did not get the entire femoral head after her surgery on her second hip and had to go back in and redo it. So not only did she have an awful time recovering, it was a nightmare, she was in extreme pain until the last surgery and then was STILL in pain because she had a bone shard 'floating' around. Also, because we had such a hard time getting her to recover from the surgeries, we were unable to do the physical therapy until it was too late so she was unable to rebuild her muscle. She walks everyday with NO muscle on her backend. It's awful. ....thank you vet.


Tem_sat, I am confused, I thought you said Immiticide did not work? Your last post states that it did?


Monster'sdad, I do hope you realize that you sound like a vet trying desperately to sell their product. Most vets will give you some horror story about anything from shots to food JUST to get you to buy their products. I have worked for 5 different vet clinics and they were all focused on money only. One vet clinic had over 5 vets working there and I had heard them all at some point in time comment that they could care less if a dog died or not.
I would like you to show me proof that alternatives do not work.
You are pushing pop science you provide the evidence. Alternatives are called Alternatives for a reason, they don't work.

By the way, I can't prove a negative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
You are pushing pop science you provide the evidence. Alternatives are called Alternatives for a reason, they don't work.

By the way, I can't prove a negative.

sooooo, are you going to tell that to the people that have successfully used an alternative? There is an alternative for everything. Ever wonder why people and animals are so unhealthy now? Also notice that more and more Drs and vets are beginning to realize their mistakes in pushing their traditional methods. Why else have they developed a 3 year rabies vaccine? I believe it is because vets are realizing they ARE in fact over-vaccinating, but they cannot stop it all together because they will lose money.


I would be more than happy to provide you with evidence that what YOU are pushing, also has its risks. Nothing in life is 100% safe nor 100% effective. I also love how you state I am playing games with something that has a 100% infection rate........my dogs have not had heartworm preventative in years. I live in the south, with an overload of mosquitoes, .....no heartworms. Lucky? or my dog's immune systems are healthier because of their diet. If their systems are healthy enough, their natural immune defenses can actually kill off the larva. Ever wonder why you almost always see UNhealthy dogs with heartworms?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kassandra

·
Banned
Joined
·
939 Posts
sooooo, are you going to tell that to the people that have successfully used an alternative? There is an alternative for everything. Ever wonder why people and animals are so unhealthy now? Also notice that more and more Drs and vets are beginning to realize their mistakes in pushing their traditional methods. Why else have they developed a 3 year rabies vaccine? I believe it is because vets are realizing they ARE in fact over-vaccinating, but they cannot stop it all together because they will lose money.


I would be more than happy to provide you with evidence that what YOU are pushing, also has its risks. Nothing in life is 100% safe nor 100% effective. I also love how you state I am playing games with something that has a 100% infection rate........my dogs have not had heartworm preventative in years. I live in the south, with an overload of mosquitoes, .....no heartworms. Lucky? or my dog's immune systems are healthier because of their diet. If their systems are healthy enough, their natural immune defenses can actually kill off the larva. Ever wonder why you almost always see UNhealthy dogs with heartworms?
You are just lucky. I am happy for you but what you don't realize is that others may not be lucky and they read your misinformation. A dog bitten by an infected mosquito will have virtually a 100% infection rate. I didn't say 100% of dogs get heartworms.

All dogs are at risk to heartworms, it has nothing to do with immune reponse.

I am waiting for the peer reviewed studies on Black Walnut. I was just reading it works on Alzheimer's too. LOL

One by one when the so-called Alternative remedies are subject to scientific scrutiny they fail, with one in a million holding up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,796 Posts
River Run it is nice to see someone who is interested in more natural care. Don't feel the need to defend your position becasue you will never had enough or acceptable "scientific facts" for people like Monster's Dad. Alternative are alternative because they are different than conventional not because they don't work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
sooooo, are you going to tell that to the people that have successfully used an alternative? There is an alternative for everything. Ever wonder why people and animals are so unhealthy now? Also notice that more and more Drs and vets are beginning to realize their mistakes in pushing their traditional methods. Why else have they developed a 3 year rabies vaccine? I believe it is because vets are realizing they ARE in fact over-vaccinating, but they cannot stop it all together because they will lose money.


I would be more than happy to provide you with evidence that what YOU are pushing, also has its risks. Nothing in life is 100% safe nor 100% effective. I also love how you state I am playing games with something that has a 100% infection rate........my dogs have not had heartworm preventative in years. I live in the south, with an overload of mosquitoes, .....no heartworms. Lucky? or my dog's immune systems are healthier because of their diet. If their systems are healthy enough, their natural immune defenses can actually kill off the larva. Ever wonder why you almost always see UNhealthy dogs with heartworms?
I second this. I lived in Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas in the dead of summer and I haven't used heartworm medicine in over two years (or flea for that matter) I have had this discussion with people who are so adamant for HW preventions and they never recall a dog who was healthy catching them. Sure lots of dogs are brought into rescues with them -- who knows what they've been through. I'm not in any way/shape/form the least bit worried about heartworms and even if I were two of mine have neurological damage preventing them from taking such medications so it's not even an option. Vets are amazed when I bring my dogs in... to the point they don't even question them not getting HW because they can tell by how healthy they are their mom has researched and they're getting the best care. I've had TWO vets tell me they wish they'd see more dogs like mine coming in through the door-- with fur/teeth/and health LIKE MINE. Vets go on and on about how well-cared for they are and how much muscle they have. It's great. One vet started out saying dogs need veggies/fruits and by the time we left she said she must have been wrong because my dogs weren't missing anything based on their blood and their physical appearance. Actually, one more, they went to the groomer last week and the groomer kept going on and on about how they have the softest/nicest fur of any dog they've seen and how good their diet must be. ;) At PetsMart for their Santa picture everyone commented also on them being the softest dogs with the cleanest teeth and were told many times they were the cutest they've seen! People stop and ask me how I keep them looking so good and what do I feed almost every time I go to the Farmer's Market... so I'm doing something right :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
You cannot deal with heartworms any other way than with conventional medicine. And you must use a preventative, whether it is ivermectin or the other ones that are available. The least expensive and safest is ivermectin. If you have a MDR1 dog, get the test and stick with the 6 mcg/kg dosage.

If you have a large dog, or several for that matter, use can safely use 1% liquid or the apple flavored paste.
You are talking about preventative when I am talking about treatment. I do not agree that Ivermectin is the "safest" route for TREATMENT. I also never said anything about nonconventional methods. Correct me if I am wrong, but the topic of discussion is TREATMENT for a HW+ dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
Tem_sat, I am confused, I thought you said Immiticide did not work? Your last post states that it did?
That's exactly what I am saying. It did work and I would do it again if I had to. 8 weeks is a drop in the bucket compared to 6 months or a year for the "slow cure" Ivermectin or the untested holistic approaches. If you read further you will see that at least one states that if your dog shows to be HW+ after the 6 month period, go ahead with the conventional approach. I personally wouldn't do it any other way. If in a MAJOR financial bind, I can see going with the "slow kill" method, but only due to finances.

Added: For those who think Heartworm doesn't occur in their area, the way to really know is to run stats on the percentage of HW+ dogs that are strays and are taken in to a shelter and tested. You wouldn't believe the numbers in San Antonio, Texas. Yes, my dog was a stray, yes he was HW+ positive, and yes I adopted him, and he's fine now after treatment. My vet does an average of 3 HW treatments a week. That's just him! It's rampant where I live.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
That's exactly what I am saying. It did work and I would do it again if I had to. 8 weeks is a drop in the bucket compared to 6 months or a year for the "slow cure" Ivermectin or the untested holistic approaches. If you read further you will see that at least one states that if your dog shows to be HW+ after the 6 month period, go ahead with the conventional approach. I personally wouldn't do it any other way. If in a MAJOR financial bind, I can see going with the "slow kill" method, but only due to finances.

Added: For those who think Heartworm doesn't occur in their area, the way to really know is to run stats on the percentage of HW+ dogs that are strays and are taken in to a shelter and tested. You wouldn't believe the numbers in San Antonio, Texas. Yes, my dog was a stray, yes he was HW+ positive, and yes I adopted him, and he's fine now after treatment. My vet does an average of 3 HW treatments a week. That's just him! It's rampant where I live.
No one is arguing if it's high in certain areas... we're saying healthy dogs don't have to worry about it because their immune system can handle things. I see rescues coming in all the time to shelters with heart worms, but I've never heard of a healthy, well-cared for dog getting them, and if there have been cases, they're certainly not the norm.

Heartworms exist there's no debating that. The debate lies in healthy animals getting them and since there hasn't really been much research into the issue we have to go by our gut-feeling on this one... I've never seen anything that shows whether an unvaccinated dog is healthier than a vaccinated dog or vice versa. I've never seen anything on healthy dogs and heart worms -- only on shelter dogs. I know there has never been a study conducted on vaccinated people vs unvaccinated sooo until then no one really knows and we all go based on our research on the particular subject and do we feel is safest for our pets. I cringe when I see people giving monthly medicines like this but it's not my place to tell someone what to do...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
. A dog bitten by an infected mosquito will have virtually a 100% infection rate. I didn't say 100% of dogs get heartworms.

All dogs are at risk to heartworms, it has nothing to do with immune reponse.
Let me act like you for a moment.
.
.
.WRONG.
An infected mosquito must bite a dog, inject the larva; bite the dog again and pick up the larva and incubate it, then bite a dog again to inject the matured worm. Only that worm can travel through the bloodstream and enter the heart.


So NO, all dogs bitten by infected mosquito will NOT be 100% guaranteed to be infected. New larva cannot survive in the dog. It will be killed before it can reach maturity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
No one is arguing if it's high in certain areas... we're saying healthy dogs don't have to worry about it because their immune system can handle things. I see rescues coming in all the time to shelters with heart worms, but I've never heard of a healthy, well-cared for dog getting them, and if there have been cases, they're certainly not the norm.

Heartworms exist there's no debating that. The debate lies in healthy animals getting them and since there hasn't really been much research into the issue we have to go by our gut-feeling on this one... I've never seen anything that shows whether an unvaccinated dog is healthier than a vaccinated dog or vice versa. I've never seen anything on healthy dogs and heart worms -- only on shelter dogs. I know there has never been a study conducted on vaccinated people vs unvaccinated sooo until then no one really knows and we all go based on our research on the particular subject and do we feel is safest for our pets. I cringe when I see people giving monthly medicines like this but it's not my place to tell someone what to do...

I second everything you just said.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
No one is arguing if it's high in certain areas... we're saying healthy dogs don't have to worry about it because their immune system can handle things. I see rescues coming in all the time to shelters with heart worms, but I've never heard of a healthy, well-cared for dog getting them, and if there have been cases, they're certainly not the norm.

Heartworms exist there's no debating that. The debate lies in healthy animals getting them and since there hasn't really been much research into the issue we have to go by our gut-feeling on this one... I've never seen anything that shows whether an unvaccinated dog is healthier than a vaccinated dog or vice versa. I've never seen anything on healthy dogs and heart worms -- only on shelter dogs. I know there has never been a study conducted on vaccinated people vs unvaccinated sooo until then no one really knows and we all go based on our research on the particular subject and do we feel is safest for our pets. I cringe when I see people giving monthly medicines like this but it's not my place to tell someone what to do...
Just to be clear, you and I agree on so many things! I switched to virtually all grass fed / pastured / locally farmed PMR because of you. :becky:

The one thing I could not possibly go through again would be to have my dog end up HW+ for the 2nd time. For that reason, I religiously give him his monthly preventative. I could also live with a 45-day schedule. I feel that I am informed enough to be comfortable with that.

One last comment...the PRIMARY reason I switched to PMR from kibble was to improve his immune system post Immiticide treatment. I can't prove that it works either, however, I feel much more comfortable this way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
Just to be clear, you and I agree on so many things! I switched to virtually all grass fed / pastured / locally farmed PMR because of you. :becky:

The one thing I could not possibly go through again would be to have my dog end up HW+ for the 2nd time. For that reason, I religiously give him his monthly preventative. I could also live with a 45-day schedule. I feel that I am informed enough to be comfortable with that.

One last comment...the PRIMARY reason I switched to PMR from kibble was to improve his immune system post Immiticide treatment. I can't prove that it works either, however, I feel much more comfortable this way.
If there's on thing in life I've learned we all feel/do things based on strong convictions and if I'd been through treating a dog with heartworms I might think/feel different. Unfortunately, I was on the end where damage was done due to a toxin so I base my feelings on that. You know more about your dog and their heath than anyone else.. I haven't dealt with a dog who had heartworms or weak immuned systems so again I might handle it differently.

Everyone should do what they're comfortable with after they have assessed the situation and researched the pros/cons of what that situation may be. And I'm glad you switched to the ethically raised stuff and I bet your pup appreciates it! And nobody should tell someone to use or not use a drug, but rather explain why you would or wouldn't so the person can see where you're coming from. And we should all be open to different methods as one might come along that works better for our pups than what we had been doing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
I feed raw and don't vaccinate or use any flea or tick preventatives, but HW is not something I want to mess around with. My dogs get monthly preventative year round, per the guidance of the holistic vet that we see. If I were dealing with a HW+ dog, I woud treat conventionally with a proven method, and work with my holistic vet who also believes in using conventional medicine when necessary. There are lots of natural options out there for preventing or treating HW, but this is one area where I would go with what I know works, and it is kind of iffy on the natural stuff when it comes to HW, unfortunately. I had this conversation with my holistic vet when I was wondering if I was doing the right thing by giving monthly preventative. She told me that none of the natural preventatives or treatments have ever been proven to work, or else she would be all over it. She recommends Heartguard or Interceptor year round for where we live. Used to be she recommended it every 45 days and only certain times of the year. However there has been a recent mosquito gene mutation causing the lifecycle of the HW to shorten. Right now this is moreso down south but will probably travel up the Mississippi and spread. Which is why she has changed her recommendation. And she does not even sell HW preventative out of her office, she just writes a script for it...so it's not a matter of her thinking she is going to make money telling clients it is necessary. Jut my 2 cents and I will leave it at that....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
851 Posts
I agree with the above. Some holistic vets say it works and others don't. I'm only going to give Heartworm May-October (end) or less depending on the weather. I'm not in a high risk area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
Let me act like you for a moment.
.
.
.WRONG.
An infected mosquito must bite a dog, inject the larva; bite the dog again and pick up the larva and incubate it, then bite a dog again to inject the matured worm. Only that worm can travel through the bloodstream and enter the heart.


So NO, all dogs bitten by infected mosquito will NOT be 100% guaranteed to be infected. New larva cannot survive in the dog. It will be killed before it can reach maturity.
Hmmmm, no. With all due respect. Everyone should look away from this, including the ones who liked it so much. This is exactly how erroneous information is spread.

Mosquito bites and ingest microfilariea from dog X --> Mosquito incubates microfilariea into infective larvae -- > Mosquito deposit infective larvae on skin of dog Y, larvae then enter the bite wound and mature in the tissue of dog Y --> Juvenile larvae move to systemic veins and embolize the pulmonary arteries --> Larvae produces new microfilariea to complete the cycle.

http://www.terrierman.com/heartworm-seasonality-knight-LOK.pdf

Also, the argument that some dogs and wild wolfs do not get heartworm is vague at best. Spreading of heartworm is a local issue. Mosquitoes doesn't fly all over the place and doesn't migrate to nearby areas or cities. Dogs in rural areas with no heartworm positive dogs as neighbors is at minimal risk of getting heartworm. So are wolfs since they for the most part stay away from densely populated areas with thousands of dogs.

If you want to leave it up to faith and the all mighty immune system be my guest, just glad it's not my dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,009 Posts
This is the Holistic Alternatives and Remedies Section.
This is the section to ask questions about holistic alternatives and remedies... and to suggest holistic alternatives and remedies to those asking.
If you have no suggestions on Holistic Alternatives and Remedies, please do not post here. If the OP wanted advice on or to discuss conventional medicine surely they would have posted there.

WHY am I having to tell the SAME people over and over again to keep to the applied sections?
 
21 - 40 of 54 Posts
Top