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Discussion starter · #21 ·
OK...yet another question. Is it possible to do this....

Primarily feed chicken, turkey, pork, and ground organs. Then only once in a while throw in something like a beef heart of pigs tongue or feet? I am really having some issues dealing with all of this meat. I went to the store last night and bought beef heart, beef liver, pork liver, pork tongue, chicken feet, chicken and pork gizzard, chicken liver, one case of turkey necks, and pigs feet. I seperated all of these appropriately in containers and put them in the freezer. I just am not liking dealing with all that variety. Sooo...now that I have it all (for now) can I just throw those things into the mix here and there but primarily feed chicken, turkey, and pork as their everyday, meals? Do I have to feed the same kind of meat each day or can I feed chicken in the morning and pork at night? Right now they are having chicken backs and necks for breakfast and chicken quarters de-fatted for dinner.

Additionally, it looks like they are losing weight especially the puppy while going through this process, is this normal?

I may have more questions but for now I am sure that will keep some of you busy...ha ha. I know I'm a pest but I appreciate ALL of the help, I really do.
 
Right now you aren't going to have to worry about all that meat until your dog is used to the diet, slowly moving from one meat source to another makes for no unneeded diarreah. Stay with the chicken backs and quarters for awhile, then slowly add in a new meat source like turkey, then pork, then beef, fish, then organs. The puppy will be able to move faster in the diet than the older dog, but variety is key to a good prey model diet.
 
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Discussion starter · #23 ·
Right now you aren't going to have to worry about all that meat until your dog is used to the diet, slowly moving from one meat source to another makes for no unneeded diarreah. Stay with the chicken backs and quarters for awhile, then slowly add in a new meat source like turkey, then pork, then beef, fish, then organs. The puppy will be able to move faster in the diet than the older dog, but variety is key to a good prey model diet.
I know that I am not in need of all of those meats at this time, just wanted to get stocked up sooner rather than be frantic about it later.

Ok...I am sticking with the chicken for now, and intend on introducing little by little other meats. Just was curious about if I could primarily feed the chicken, pork, and turkey and then throw organs in the mix occassionally and then maybe a fish once a week. I also bout 2 whole mackarel and 2 whole whiting last night and they are also in the freezer for them for later.
 
Once the dogs are ready, fish is needed at least once a week, some dogs won't eat whole fish but maybe you won't have that problem, its important for the omega 3 fatty acids, Also, red meat preferably from grass fed sources are a good source of omega 3 fatty acids that dogs don't get from white meat.

Just don't make the mistake of only feeding white meat and no red meat sources, organs every few weeks when they are ready and fish once a week. Good Luck, off to work I go!
 
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Primarily feed chicken, turkey, pork, and ground organs.
I would add some beef ... beef heart is great and is not an organ, rather it's muscle and fat. I would also have some fish in the diet.

Then only once in a while throw in something like a beef heart of pigs tongue or feet?
Beef heart is great. I feed it once a week. Pig tongue isn't bad but I don't think it adds much to the diet. Feet, I wouldn't bother with for meals. You MIGHT want to use them as treats but I don't.

I am really having some issues dealing with all of this meat. I went to the store last night and bought beef heart, beef liver, pork liver, pork tongue, chicken feet, chicken and pork gizzard, chicken liver, one case of turkey necks, and pigs feet.
I owuld leave out all the feet and tongue. I would also eliminate the chicken gizzard. I didn't know there was such a thing as pork gizzard but I would leave it out, too. After you have been feeding for 4 or 5 months and have gotten into a comfortable routine, you can add whichever of those other things you want to and if you don't want to add them back, don't.

I seperated all of these appropriately in containers and put them in the freezer. I just am not liking dealing with all that variety.
Variety is good but in the beginning while all is so new to you, I wouldn't bother with the things I mentioned above.

Sooo...now that I have it all (for now) can I just throw those things into the mix here and there but primarily feed chicken, turkey, and pork as their everyday, meals?
If it were me, I would add beef heart once a week or so and some fish evey couple of weeks. Other than that, go with it.

Do I have to feed the same kind of meat each day or can I feed chicken in the morning and pork at night?
I would be careful right now but in a couple of months you can mix and match however you want. I know some people will feed some ground beef or turkey and add a chicken back for bone. Thats not necessary but some do it.

Right now they are having chicken backs and necks for breakfast and chicken quarters de-fatted for dinner.
Cool, my dogs will get that exact same thing about 3 or 4 days a week but I don't de-fat anything.

Additionally, it looks like they are losing weight especially the puppy while going through this process, is this normal?
Some loose, some gain, some stay the same. I wouldn't be too concerned. In a couple of months after you have your routine worked out and they have adjusted, you can adjust volume to control weight. Often when dogs are switched they loose fat but gain muscle and they look thinner. As long as they don't get extremely thin or fat, don't worry about it for a month or so.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
I would add some beef ... beef heart is great and is not an organ, rather it's muscle and fat. I would also have some fish in the diet.



Beef heart is great. I feed it once a week. Pig tongue isn't bad but I don't think it adds much to the diet. Feet, I wouldn't bother with for meals. You MIGHT want to use them as treats but I don't.



I owuld leave out all the feet and tongue. I would also eliminate the chicken gizzard. I didn't know there was such a thing as pork gizzard but I would leave it out, too. After you have been feeding for 4 or 5 months and have gotten into a comfortable routine, you can add whichever of those other things you want to and if you don't want to add them back, don't.



Variety is good but in the beginning while all is so new to you, I wouldn't bother with the things I mentioned above.



If it were me, I would add beef heart once a week or so and some fish evey couple of weeks. Other than that, go with it.



I would be careful right now but in a couple of months you can mix and match however you want. I know some people will feed some ground beef or turkey and add a chicken back for bone. Thats not necessary but some do it.



Cool, my dogs will get that exact same thing about 3 or 4 days a week but I don't de-fat anything.



Some loose, some gain, some stay the same. I wouldn't be too concerned. In a couple of months after you have your routine worked out and they have adjusted, you can adjust volume to control weight. Often when dogs are switched they loose fat but gain muscle and they look thinner. As long as they don't get extremely thin or fat, don't worry about it for a month or so.
Thank you SO MUCH for all of the information.

As for the "pork gizzard" I could be wrong I think it was chicken liver and chicken gizzard. I am so confused...ha ha!!!

Do you suggest I add anything new to them now?
 
Aren't you glad you joined here?!

I wouldn't add anything else in for now. You really want to stay with bone in chicken for two weeks. Especially since your dogs were having diarrhea in the beginning. Just take things nice and slow.

And to answer your previous question, our dogs main protein sources are pork, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. It's perfectly fine to feed just turkey, chicken and pork most of the time.

Keep up the good work!
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Aren't you glad you joined here?!

I wouldn't add anything else in for now. You really want to stay with bone in chicken for two weeks. Especially since your dogs were having diarrhea in the beginning. Just take things nice and slow.

And to answer your previous question, our dogs main protein sources are pork, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. It's perfectly fine to feed just turkey, chicken and pork most of the time.

Keep up the good work!
I knew you'd come to the rescue Nat!!!!

Thanks a bunch. I suppose all of the stuff that I have bought and froze can be used down the line as little "extra's". As RawFedDogs said above...I am thinking of primarily feeding prok, turkey, and chicken. Then giving beef heart once a week, organs every two weeks, and fish every two weeks.

Does that sound ok? How about all the stuff that I bought last night, was that stuff appropriate?

As for "de-fatting" the chicken. How long should I continue this? I started it because of the cannon butt that the two of them were having.
 
How is their cannon butt doing? If you are seeing normal stools you can start to taper cutting fat off. If still seeing soft poo go ahead and continue trimming and just keep an eye out for stool condition.

All the stuff you bought sounds definitely appropriate but what I consider to be the "extras" to the diet. Remember that organs only should make up ~10% of the overall diet. We only feed organs once every two weeks as well, but some peope feed just a very little bit everyday. Either way is just fine.

Sounds like you will be feeding almost the exact same routine that we do! Also keep in mind that red meats are considered the best and most appropriate for dogs to eat, so
maybe try and find a connection with a wild game processing place to get a hookup on venison and elk.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
How is their cannon butt doing? If you are seeing normal stools you can start to taper cutting fat off. If still seeing soft poo go ahead and continue trimming and just keep an eye out for stool condition.

All the stuff you bought sounds definitely appropriate but what I consider to be the "extras" to the diet. Remember that organs only should make up ~10% of the overall diet. We only feed organs once every two weeks as well, but some peope feed just a very little bit everyday. Either way is just fine.

Sounds like you will be feeding almost the exact same routine that we do! Also keep in mind that red meats are considered the best and most appropriate for dogs to eat, so
maybe try and find a connection with a wild game processing place to get a hookup on venison and elk.
Their cannon but is no longer...YAY!!!! Ok, then I will start to taper off cutting the fat...it was a PITA anyway.

Since I am going to give the organs ground I really could do them either way.

As for Venison, my husband and our good friend hunt every year. If they don't get a buck they always come home with at least one doe. None of us like Venison and the firend that my husband hunts with knows how to butcher the deer, soooo that makes for TONS of venison for my guys come November!!!! WOO HOO!!!!!
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Wow...I'm jealous! Too bad you live so far away!
I more jealous of YOU...you seem to have WAY better prices out there for your everyday meats then we could ever get here!!!!
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
Now see....this is where I start to really get confused. So many people have so many opinions on what you should and shouldn't feed. For the most part I do know at this point what to do FOR NOW. BUT, on a group I belong to I was just told that chicken backs & necks & quarters as the strict diet for now is NOT enough meat for the dogs. AHHHHHHHH someone PLEASE help me here!!! Are they not getting enough meat? Should I add more meat or something???
 
Are you talking about DOL?

I urge you to stay on bone in chicken for two weeks. This can be backs, quarters, thighs, etc. They are right that this isn't enough meat for a well adjusted dog on raw. BUT since your dogs are still VERY new to raw feeding you NEED to feed a lot more bone than a normal diet. Why? Bone firms stools up. If you were to lessen the amount of bone and increase the amount of meat at this point in the transition you WILL see loose stool/diarrhea.
 
Now see....this is where I start to really get confused. So many people have so many opinions on what you should and shouldn't feed. For the most part I do know at this point what to do FOR NOW. BUT, on a group I belong to I was just told that chicken backs & necks & quarters as the strict diet for now is NOT enough meat for the dogs. AHHHHHHHH someone PLEASE help me here!!! Are they not getting enough meat? Should I add more meat or something???
I understand exactly what you are saying. There are raw feeders who have to do everything by the numbers. They swear by a 80-10-10 ratio of meat, bones and organs. Problem is, no one measures their own diet that close. You feed mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. Exact ratio's don't matter. If you don't measure the exact amount of nutrients in your diet, why do it for your dogs?

I've been feeding my dogs raw for 8 years. I NEVER pay attention to ratios. I feed chicken backs every morning. I feed chicken leg quarters about 3 evenings a week. I've been doing this all my raw feeding life and my dogs are healthy and show no signs of any nutritional deficiency.

80-10-10 is an arbitrary number someone came up with years ago. Like a lot of things, she said it, a couple of people repeated it and all of a sudden it became carved in stone. Baloney!!! This person took a few wild prey animals, cut them up, tried to debone them as well as she should. She then weighed the bones, organs, and everything that was left and came up with the ratios. As far as I know, no one else has attempted to verify these numbers. I can't remember for sure what animals she cut up. Seems like it was a deer, a goat, and a rabbit but I may be all wrong about that.

I have never paid any attention to the ratios and my dogs have not suffered from it. One of my Danes is 10 years old and after a blood workup a few weeks ago, the vet said she had the liver of a 3 year old.

Mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. A variety of animal parts from a variety of animals. If their poop is too soft, feed more bone. If their poop is white and powdery right out of the chute, feed less bone. If they are constipated, feed more organs. Feed pieces large enough that they can't swallow them whole. If the dog gets two fat feed less. IF the dog gets too thin, feed more. There ... thats all you need to know once you are through the adjustment period. This is not rocket science. It's feeding a dog. If you can feed your family, you can feed your dog. :smile:

One more thing you need to understand ... you can interview 100 different raw feeders and you won't find any two who feed exactly the same way. The paragraph above tells you all the essentials. Everything else is what feels good to you and your dogs. In time you will get a routine worked out and all will run smoothly.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
Are you talking about DOL?

I urge you to stay on bone in chicken for two weeks. This can be backs, quarters, thighs, etc. They are right that this isn't enough meat for a well adjusted dog on raw. BUT since your dogs are still VERY new to raw feeding you NEED to feed a lot more bone than a normal diet. Why? Bone firms stools up. If you were to lessen the amount of bone and increase the amount of meat at this point in the transition you WILL see loose stool/diarrhea.
Ok...I will listen to what you are saying. No it actually wasn't on DOL it was on a yahoo group I belong to. I totally trust you Natalie that is why I posted this here.

Should I be feeding Luke is whole 4lbs and Gracie her whole 1 1/4lbs a day now? Just split into two meals between the necks, backs, and quarters?
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
How much are you giving them now?
Not the full a,mount that's for sure.

Gracie gets one chicken back and about 3-4 necks in the morning and Luke get's 2 chicken backs and 3-4 necks in the morning.

Dinner, they each get one quarter and a few necks.
 
Not the full a,mount that's for sure.

Gracie gets one chicken back and about 3-4 necks in the morning and Luke get's 2 chicken backs and 3-4 necks in the morning.

Dinner, they each get one quarter and a few necks.
Have you noticed them getting thinner over the past few days? Personally I wouldn't rush into feeding them huge mounts right off the bat. Gradually add more food in. For example, add in an extra chicken back to each meal per dog for a few days and see how it goes. If they are not having any problems go ahead and add a bit more in for the next couple of days. You need to find the amount that works for your dogs and the only real way to do that is by trial and error. Don't worry about the actual weight at this point, just keep mental notes on how much they eat and their body condition.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
I understand exactly what you are saying. There are raw feeders who have to do everything by the numbers. They swear by a 80-10-10 ratio of meat, bones and organs. Problem is, no one measures their own diet that close. You feed mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. Exact ratio's don't matter. If you don't measure the exact amount of nutrients in your diet, why do it for your dogs?

I've been feeding my dogs raw for 8 years. I NEVER pay attention to ratios. I feed chicken backs every morning. I feed chicken leg quarters about 3 evenings a week. I've been doing this all my raw feeding life and my dogs are healthy and show no signs of any nutritional deficiency.

80-10-10 is an arbitrary number someone came up with years ago. Like a lot of things, she said it, a couple of people repeated it and all of a sudden it became carved in stone. Baloney!!! This person took a few wild prey animals, cut them up, tried to debone them as well as she should. She then weighed the bones, organs, and everything that was left and came up with the ratios. As far as I know, no one else has attempted to verify these numbers. I can't remember for sure what animals she cut up. Seems like it was a deer, a goat, and a rabbit but I may be all wrong about that.

I have never paid any attention to the ratios and my dogs have not suffered from it. One of my Danes is 10 years old and after a blood workup a few weeks ago, the vet said she had the liver of a 3 year old.

Mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. A variety of animal parts from a variety of animals. If their poop is too soft, feed more bone. If their poop is white and powdery right out of the chute, feed less bone. If they are constipated, feed more organs. Feed pieces large enough that they can't swallow them whole. If the dog gets two fat feed less. IF the dog gets too thin, feed more. There ... thats all you need to know once you are through the adjustment period. This is not rocket science. It's feeding a dog. If you can feed your family, you can feed your dog. :smile:

One more thing you need to understand ... you can interview 100 different raw feeders and you won't find any two who feed exactly the same way. The paragraph above tells you all the essentials. Everything else is what feels good to you and your dogs. In time you will get a routine worked out and all will run smoothly.
WOW...that was a mouth full and very well put!! I thank you so much for your advice!
 
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