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Discussion Starter #1
I recently got a second IG, I brought her home with a ziploc bag of the breeders food (Royal Canin) and over a week transitioned her to Orijen puppy formula. Two days after I got her home, I took her to the vet for a check up and she had hook worms and whipworms. She had diarrhea upon arrival home. Treated her with Panacur for 4 days. She continued with very soft poo for another week and a half. So, I put her on boiled chicken, rice and pumpkin. Her poo is solid now. My vet did another fecal today and said he didn't see anything.
So, I think she is allergic to something in the Orijen. I had this problem with my first IG, he was allergic to something in Innova and it made him have diarrhea, as soon as I switched him to Canidae it cleared up.
The question is, finally, how do you pinpoint what they are allergic to? I will switch her to another food, but I would like to know what it is that is causing the diarrhea?
I was thinking about Merrick Puppy Plate?
Does anyone have any wisdom they can share?

Thanks!
Catherine, Luke and Story
 

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She had diarrhea upon arrival home.
Do you mean she had diarrhea from the time you brought her into your house from rescue or upon bringing her home from the vet?

So, I put her on boiled chicken, rice and pumpkin. Her poo is solid now.
Did you feed her Orijen after her stools were solid and then they got soft again?

So, I think she is allergic to something in the Orijen.
Unless you fed it again after her stools got solid and that caused them to get soft again, I see no relationship between the soft stools and Orijen. It would be very unusual for a puppy or a dog to be allergic to anything in Orijen as it's mostly meat. Dogs are almost never allergic to meat. It would be like a cow being alergic to grass.

Almost always when a dog has soft stools when switched to one of these high nutrition foods the dog will have soft stools unless the volume of food is decreased a good bit. These soft stools are caused by overnutrition. Cut back on the volume and all should be ok.

I had this problem with my first IG, he was allergic to something in Innova and it made him have diarrhea, as soon as I switched him to Canidae it cleared up.
The question is, finally, how do you pinpoint what they are allergic to?
It's almost impossible when feeding kibble. If you were a raw feeder, an elimination diet would tell you if your dog is allergic to some particular meat but it's so very rare that they are. There is no medical test that will give you that information. Almost always when a dog has a food allergy,its an allergy to an inappropriate ingredient like grains.
 

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Yes, as RFD said, cut back the amount of Orijen you're feeding since it's pretty much a hypoallergenic food. I'm guessing that switching from crap (Royal Canin) to amazing (Orijen) probably just irritated her bowels and I'm sure the worms didn't help anything. Orijen is, in fact, the only kibble that managed to firm up the stools of my roommate's puppy, so I'd be surprised it the Orijen was truly the culprit.

I'd say, keep on with the chicken and whatnot and start putting some of the Orijen in with that (obviously cutting back the amount of chicken mixture you're giving her to substitute for the Orijen content). Then start mixing in less of the chicken and more of the Orijen (but still not a ton, since it is so nutrient-dense). An IG pup will not need a lot of Orijen in order to stay full.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the advice. I didn't think about quantity. I have been giving her a heaping 1/3 cup, which is probably too much. She needs to put on a little weight and was looking VERY skinny. She also was scarfing down the food like she had never eaten.

Thanks
Catherine
 

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Re: Food Allergy

"It would be very unusual for a puppy or a dog to be allergic to anything in Orijen as it's mostly meat. Dogs are almost never allergic to meat. It would be like a cow being alergic to grass."

Even though grains are the usual source of food allergy in dogs, dogs can be allergic to meat...chicken and beef being the two main culprits. In my BT chicken triggers excessive skin sensitivity and itching and beef triggers yeast infections.

You can do an elimination diet while feeding kibble. My recommendation is to switch you dog to a high grade kibble with no grains and a source of protein that they haven't been exposed to. I personally use Natural Balance Potato and Duck, but there are others. After a couple of months if the dog is doing better you can add other proteins in to see if there is any response.

Also be aware that dogs can have environmental allergies. those contact allergies can be just a bad if not worse than the food allergies.
 

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Even though grains are the usual source of food allergy in dogs, dogs can be allergic to meat...chicken and beef being the two main culprits. In my BT chicken triggers excessive skin sensitivity and itching and beef triggers yeast infections.
I have never known a dog who ate chicken only or beef only to show any allergy symptoms.

You can do an elimination diet while feeding kibble.
There are way too many variables in kibble to do an accurate elimination diet. For example if the kibble you feed has any of the "meat meals" (that would be chicken meal, lamb meal, beef meal), it could have anything in it. For example the only requirement for chicken meal is that chicken is the predomanant ingredient in the meal is chicken. It can have any other animal protein in it so long as the largest animal protein is chicken.

Of course you can keep trying different brands until you find one that works. An elimination diet is so much easier if you feed a raw diet. Thats the only way you can be certain of what your dogs are eating.

Also be aware that dogs can have environmental allergies. those contact allergies can be just a bad if not worse than the food allergies.
Environmental allergies are more common than food allergies and there are tests for environmental allergies but not food allergies..
 

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Here, we have found that many food allergies are allergies to either grains or vegetables. That being said, we do have a few dogs that do have severe allergies to particular protein sources. One APBT in particular has a severe allergy to chicken.

My Newfoundland does have allergies, most are to non-meat ingredients, however, she is allergic to beef, period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it - no beef for this girl.

There are new allergy tests out that do test for food allergens and so far have proven to be quite accurate. It's quite a tool for those with true allergies.

Quite often, when a person thinks their dog has a food allergy, when changed over to raw the allergen is no longer a problem, but this is not always the case.
 

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I may have the only dog with an intolerance/allergy to meat, but my dog is allergic to beef and has a high intolerance to chicken. We're okay with Lamb, Duck, and Fish as far as now, but beef gives him a nasty rash, sores, and the runs, chicken gives him horrible gas and soft stools. So yes, it is possible for a dog to be allergic to meats...rare maybe but definitely not impossible.
 

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I have never known a dog who ate chicken only or beef only to show any allergy symptoms.
QUOTE]

Well meet my dog and you will. I gave him beef jerky (homemade nothing else added to it just dehydrated beef) with ZERO other changes in his diet and he broke out in a rash, sores, and had horrible diarrhea. Then about 2 weeks later I gave him a raw beef bone, same thing happened. Nothing else was changed and he's continued on the kibble after the fact without issues so yeah he has an allergy to beef. And chicken gives him horrible gas. Maybe he's weird, but it is not impossible. I have also met others that have dog allergic to beef so where they may be in the minority, again it is not possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I am still giving her boiled chicken, rice and a bit of pumpkin. She is ravenous though, she acts like I am starving her. Luke picks at his food and if I don't pick up his before I let her out of her crate after meals she scarfs it down like she hasn't eaten in a week!!

Thanks everyone!
 

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Just a suggestion if you're going to leave her on the homemade food much longer, it doesn't sound like she's getting any calcium to balance her phosphorus (meat) intake, so you should probably get her some calcium supplements and maybe a good doggie multi-vitamin just to make sure she's getting everything she needs.

Good luck!
 

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There are new allergy tests out that do test for food allergens and so far have proven to be quite accurate. It's quite a tool for those with true allergies.
Is there somewhere I can look for information on these new tests?
 

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I gave him beef jerky (homemade nothing else added to it just dehydrated beef) with ZERO other changes in his diet and he broke out in a rash, sores, and had horrible diarrhea.
I would guess that when you give any kibble fed dog a good amount of beef for the first time, he would react quite similarly. Not only is beef one of the more rich of meats, when you dehydrate it, you make the nutrient dense meat even more dense by a factor of about 300%.

Thats the reason it is never suggested to begin a raw diet with beef. Beef should be introduced slowly beginning 4 or 5 weeks into the diet. I have known new raw feeders who tried to begin the diet with beef have similar problems as you, only to have them go away when they properly introduced their dog to raw with a more sensible method. When they did eventually introduce beef slowly, all went ok. No more problems with beef.

And chicken gives him horrible gas.
"Horrible gas" is not a symptom of an allergy. It's a digestive problem that is usually easily corrected.
 

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I would guess that when you give any kibble fed dog a good amount of beef for the first time, he would react quite similarly. Not only is beef one of the more rich of meats, when you dehydrate it, you make the nutrient dense meat even more dense by a factor of about 300%.

Thats the reason it is never suggested to begin a raw diet with beef. Beef should be introduced slowly beginning 4 or 5 weeks into the diet. I have known new raw feeders who tried to begin the diet with beef have similar problems as you, only to have them go away when they properly introduced their dog to raw with a more sensible method. When they did eventually introduce beef slowly, all went ok. No more problems with beef.



"Horrible gas" is not a symptom of an allergy. It's a digestive problem that is usually easily corrected.

I didn't say it was an allergy I said it was an INTOLERANCE. It is not easily corrected, he eats anything with chicken whether it be fresh chicken, chicken jerky, food with chicken, etc he has horrible gas yet he doesn't get gas with any other food, so yes it is considered an intolerance. Maybe you'd like to schedule and appointment with a vet who specializes in allergies and intolerances and speak with them to become more knowledgable on the subject since it doesn't seem like you have much experience in the area.

Okay seriously I gave 1 SMALL piece of beef jerky, It wasn't huge, maybe 2 inches long by 1 inch wide at the biggest. Yes it was more "condensed" but it was small. It also does not explain the reaction to the raw bone i gave him which had MAYBE 1/4 of a teaspoon of meat left on it maximum. Broke out then too. I later had an allergy test done on him through the specialist and yes he is allergic to beef and is intolerant to chicken, it wasn't just my imagination they now have tests that can confirm it and they're pretty accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
The last two meals I started adding back in the Orijen Puppy and as of this morning, the diarrhea is back!!! Argh!
So, I need to choose the next kibble. I think my feed store has Chicken Soup for the Puppy, Wellness Puppy, Merrick Puppy Plate and California Natural Puppy. Anyone have experience with these?

Thanks
 

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Just be careful with the CA Natural food it is VERY low in fiber so if your dog needs a normal to higher fiber diet CA Natural can have some unwanted side effects (awful diarrhea). Great food and some dogs do just fine on it, some (like mine) don't.
 

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I have never known a dog who ate chicken only or beef only to show any allergy symptoms.

There are way too many variables in kibble to do an accurate elimination diet. For example if the kibble you feed has any of the "meat meals" (that would be chicken meal, lamb meal, beef meal), it could have anything in it. For example the only requirement for chicken meal is that chicken is the predomanant ingredient in the meal is chicken. It can have any other animal protein in it so long as the largest animal protein is chicken..
I have to wonder how many dogs with allergies you have actually been exposed to. As with humans, dogs can be allergic to anything...and also develop an allergy after years of being fine with something.

I'm not really certain if you are in this forum to discuss canned/kibbles or promote raw feeding. Raw feeding may work for you, but you don't seem to understand that some people are not interested in feeding raw. It is my understanding that this forum isn't about feeding raw. If I want to read the raw feeding pitch I'll go over to that forum, but I don't so I won't.

There are allergy tests that can be check for food and environmental allergies, though the food allergy tests aren't as consistent. There are foods such as several Natural Balance formulas that are specifically for dogs with allergies and don't contain grains and only contain one source of a specific protein. My Alice had great success with NB Potato and Duck and has started growing her fur back in thicker, the yeast infections are under control (and only came back when I tried to introduce beef into her diet), she is completely off Benedryl, and she has much more energy than before.
 

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Sorry the Orijen didn't work out, that's too bad. Of the choices you have, I like the Wellness brand the best. I've never had experience with the puppy food, but I have done the Wellness Core and Wellness small breed formula and my dogs did really well on it.
 

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I have to wonder how many dogs with allergies you have actually been exposed to. As with humans, dogs can be allergic to anything...and also develop an allergy after years of being fine with something.
I have personally owned 2 dogs with allergies both of whom were cured by switching to a prey model raw diet. I have helped many others, I'm not sure of the number but probably over 50 who have dogs with allergy problems. So I am well aquainted with dogs with allergy problems.

I'm not really certain if you are in this forum to discuss canned/kibbles or promote raw feeding.
I am on this particular thread to teach how to handle allergies in dogs, particularly food allergies. I probably do "promote" raw feeding but only because I know what is in kibble.

Raw feeding may work for you, but you don't seem to understand that some people are not interested in feeding raw.
For the health of their dog, they should be.

It is my understanding that this forum isn't about feeding raw. If I want to read the raw feeding pitch I'll go over to that forum, but I don't so I won't.
If you are serious about actually eliminating food allergy symptoms, you will learn about it.

There are allergy tests that can be check for food and environmental allergies, though the food allergy tests aren't as consistent.
I am well aware of that and there have been some posts made that there are now reliable allergy tests to determine which food a dog is allergic to but when I ask for information on these tests, I get nothing.

There are foods such as several Natural Balance formulas that are specifically for dogs with allergies and don't contain grains and only contain one source of a specific protein.
Well, just to prove my point about doing an elimination diet with kibble, The Duck formula you are feeding has duck meal in it. By being duck meal, it can also have beef, chicken, turkey, pork, or any other animal protein in it. And it will be different each batch that is made. So how are you going to do an elimination diet with that? It may be that the bags you have bought so far doesn't have any beef in the duck meal, but the next bag may. Or they all may and your dog may not be allergic to beef like you think he is.

My Alice had great success with NB Potato and Duck and has started growing her fur back in thicker, the yeast infections are under control (and only came back when I tried to introduce beef into her diet), she is completely off Benedryl, and she has much more energy than before.
Cool, good luck on her potato diet. You know, it is mostly potato. A human wouldn't be healthy eating mostly potatoes and and dog even more so.
 

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First off, good luck in finding the right food for your pup.

RFD, everyone appreciates your passion for dogs but this is the DRY FOOD forum. Please stop preaching to everyone about how raw is the only way. Whether it is the best for the dog or not, it is up to the owner to read about it and make the decision. We have a Raw Forum section just to eliminate the two different food feeders from having heated discussions like there were in the past. It has been a while since the heated discussions arose so I think it would be best to stop where its at. Dry food feeders do not want to be preached at. Please do your raw prey model preaching in the raw forum. (We all know that you say raw fixes everything, that its the best, that YOU do KNOW that raw is best, etc etc etc. We know you have experiences with almost everything anyone can throw at you, etc. We all understand that so you do not need to give us your resume).

I do not know much about the newer members, but I know that Boxermommie really cares and loves her pups. They're part of her family, so I fully 100% trust and believe her when she says her pups were having trouble with this or that. The lady knows her information.
 
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