[claybuster]

Thanks to RFD I have been doing some homework. RFD mentioned a book by Lonsdale, 'Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes', and I started to think about what these unnatural outcomes might be. Well, my research has led me to find a hole host of medical claims (which I don't disagree with) in regards to the benefits of raw diets. I even found some references to genetics and how that can very easily be questioned in regards to veterinary science and their excuses. Now, my guy as you know, Robert Abady (RIP), has been taking a lot of heat for things he happened to state in his 'promotional data'. However, when we look at the promotional data stemming from the raw feeding articles, we find in essence a lot of the same just worded differently and not quite as bold as Abady would state. Abady will tell you when breakdowns occur across breed lines and across the country, there is no other valid explanation other than food caused. These problems can be corrected with proper nutrition, and yes it does work.

We find referenced to 'nutritional and medicinal' coming from Lonsdale, meaning the food is good medicine and will solve a lot of problems and promote good health. I told some of you raw feeders a while back and I was very serious, many don't even understand the power behind your diets in regards to promoting good health and warding off potential problems, including those one the industry will chalk up to as genetics and the luck of the draw.

One thing I noted about Lonsdale and his promotional data is he is making connections between periodontal disease and the impact that can have across the body, up to and including certain tumors and cancers. Hey, sounds good to me, for the teeth are a big issue and it is the food that is causing the problems. Carbohydrates are the foundations of plaque build up in the teeth, and Abady dedicates a nice section on this topic in his article, 'How to choose'. Abady tells us how industry connected veterinarians have written doctoral thesis's on the benefits of kibble and how it can help clean teeth. Science can and will be skewed to promote agenda and that is a perfect example with the kibble and cleaning teeth. It is impossible to clean teeth will kibble, it simply cannot be done. Lonsdale again is making many connections of disease in the mouth the can reek havoc across the body.

Now, Abady will make some very bold statements in regards to the medical, and I know the HD one is a tough pill to swallow. Abady will tell you properly nourished bitches will yield puppies with text book perfect hips each and every time. It makes sense. If the nutrition is sub par, you get sub par results, including those hips. It is up to the owner to continue on the path of exceptionally well nutrition with the pups (or the new owner of those pups) to get similar results with those bitches and those pups. Yes you can eliminate HD from a colony with the right nutrition. It has been done contradictory of what veterinary science will profess as genetics, and Abady has proven this with 2000 GSD guide dogs under the supervision of Roberta Kaman, Feildco in CT. Not one incidence of HD with their dogs when fed the right, appropriate diets. You can absolutely achieve the same results without question in a raw feeding program, assuming you have got your essential ingredients right. Abady really takes it to the max, asserting just about all problems that plague are animals are the direct result of improper nutrition and the only way to correct this on reverse the trend is to stop feeding carnivores like omnivores and ruminates, the profitable diets for big industry which will be defended by their science.

Lonsdale is without question making similar medical claims without being so bold as Abady would profess. Again, Lonsdale will start with the dental disease and the impact that can have across the body including the kidneys and cancers as mentioned prior. I found numerous references to medical and nutrition coming from Lonsdale writings and the promotion of better health. You may have heard my guy referred to as nothing more than a used car salesmen. If that is the case, Lonsdale grabbed a set of those keys and took a good long test drive down the road of nutrition and solving problems including that of medical. I found stuff from Lonsdale about urinary tract health and cats, similar to what Abady had done and has sold those products. Medical claims on food is a tricky area, and I think some of the formulas were forced to come off the shelves years back if references to those claims are stated on the box or bag. Customers did complain for these products did work for their cats. Why? Because with all carnivores and the problems that can encountered stemming from commercial nutrition can all be corrected with the proper nutrition. Abady knows this and has been helping people with their pets going on 40 years. Lonsdale knows this to and has been also helping pets by encouraging folks to feed a better way and offer something better than highly profitable commercial omnivore and ruminant nutrition.

 

[RawFedDogs]

The sky is falling!!! CB agrees with me!!! hehe I'm glad you read some of Tom's work. I didn't find any statements you attributed to him as being incorrect. I have personally heard those statements come out of his mouth many times. However I don't remember him saying HD was a nutritional disease. That is the only place we disagree in your post.

One thing about Tom is that most everything he says is documented scientifically. It is rare that Tom will say anything were he could be proved wrong sometime in the future. He chooses his words carefully. I have not seen any documentation on Abady's statements.

It's difficult to take Abady seriously as long as he sells the products he does and fails to produce documentation on his statements. That doesn't mean that his statements are wrong. I agree with some of what he says but like you say, he kinda goes off the deep end sometimes. I still don't buy the HD theory. There needs to be some scientific research done in that area or at least some experiences by more than one person.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you branching out in your research. :smile:

Oh ... that quote by Lonsdale you mentioned in the beginning of your post is not the title of a book but it is in one or more of his books. The book title is Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health. I first heard him make the unnatural diet statement in the spring of 2003, well before his 2nd book was written.

 

[claybuster]

You had mentioned there was an online version of the book, I am assuming in its entirety? I've been coming up with bits and pieces from the book can't find the complete book. I saw two books but forget the name of the other one. I thought you mentioned in the 'corn' thread, the ,Unnatural foods'...was also a book but I must have misread your post. It's interesting reading and as you know I never discounted the benefits found in raw, but mainly my focus is what I can find in regards to health issues, medical, and how raw can help with cures. Most everything seems to concentrate and the dental aspect and it's impact across the body. That impact can lead to other problems such as immune system problems, etc. I am trying to make some connections between Abady principles to some principles behind raw of Lonsdale, to see if these guys are at all on the same page in regards to the medicinal benefits.
I didn't find anything on the HD from Lonsdale, but I did spot one reference (I was surfing pretty good and didn't save links) on genetics. It was in one sentence and the gist I think was you can throw some doubt into many areas of veterinary science, one being genetic theory, but no mention of the HD.

Well, anyway, if you happen to know where the link is to the online version of the book, I would like to read more and dig deeper being able to access the entire book instead of bits and pieces. If you could provide that like I would appreciate it, thanks.

 

[RawFedDogs]

Go to Raw Meaty Bones ... click on the picture of either book on the right side of the opening page. Follow the directions to purchase the e-books. I think they are both around $9.50 or so.

The places where Lonsdale and Abady part company is that Lonsdale abhors processed food of any kind. Also he would never agree(and rightly so) that granular food, kibble, or canned food can properly clean teeth the way RMBs do. He will also say that processing takes the nutrients out of food and there is no way any kind of processed food can contain the proper nutrients in the proper amounts. There are just many places the two wouldn't be able to agree.

 

[claybuster]

Go to Raw Meaty Bones ... click on the picture of either book on the right side of the opening page. Follow the directions to purchase the e-books. I think they are both around $9.50 or so.

The places where Lonsdale and Abady part company is that Lonsdale abhors processed food of any kind. Also he would never agree(and rightly so) that granular food, kibble, or canned food can properly clean teeth the way RMBs do. He will also say that processing takes the nutrients out of food and there is no way any kind of processed food can contain the proper nutrients in the proper amounts. There are just many places the two wouldn't be able to agree.

I think they would have agreed on a lot of stuff. Keep in mind, Abady was selling commercial raw diets and bagged organ parts for 16 years prior to the introduction of Granular feeds. I think it is a no-brainer that fresh raw meats are best for dogs over even lightly processed feeds like Granular. However that is not to say Granular feeds do make a good convenient option and has the necessary amounts of animals source proteins to get the job done. I would be willing to bet next time you spoke with Tom and asked how he felt about what Robert Abady had done in world of commercial nutrition he would speak very highly of him, a person who truly cared about the animals and finding a better way to feed them than what is offered today by most manufacturers.