[hbwright]

I guess I just need reassurance that I'm not damaging my dogs. We are finishing day 8 and now not only does the boxer (Jubilee) still have diarrhea but the doberman (Jordan) does too where he formerly had solid stools up to day 6. I did start adding some of the fat that I cut off Jubilee's food to Jordan to help soften his stool a little as it was chalky coming out the shoot. I stopped this when he started getting diarrhea and started actually cutting off all his fat too. Now I'm cutting both fat and muscle off the bone to decrease the meat given and increase the bone on both of the dogs, going on 3 days now with Jordan and 6 days with Jubilee.

The diarrhea is soft serve brown with Jubilee and mucusy with Jordan. Jubilee is 45 pounds and getting 1 chix quarter a day with all skin off and some muscle meat shaved off and Jordan is 85 pounds and getting 2 a day without skin and shaving off some of the muscle. Both stil have good energy and Jubilee does not look to be losing weight although she is very hyperactive. Jordan does look to be losing weight but is much less active to the point of almost being a couch potato with a little play time in between.

Do I just keep going like this? I don't want to give up. How long do I give them to adjust and start to see improvement in their bowel function? I don't want to feed them any less.

Also, treats. What do y'all use for treats? My dogs get venison jerkey, dried liver and one of their favorites is 3 dog bakery cookies. I know not to mix in kibble but are the cookies okay? They get the peanut butter bones, nilla woofers and the carob and creams.

 

[Ania's Mommy]

I might try cutting out all treats for a few days and see if that helps improve things.

Please don't give up! It takes time, sometimes, to figure it out. But I PROMISE you, you will not regret it when you do.

 

[3RingCircus]

hbwright,
I agree with Ania's Mommy, cut out all treats. Liver can easily cause loose stool or even diarrhea because it is so rich. I suspect that may be your culprit because of your description, soft serve brown. The cookies maybe causing an added stress to your dogs' diets.

Any of these Three Dog Bakery ingredients could cause your stomach/intestinal upset:
peanut butter, carob, canola oil, wheat, apples, egg, milk, whey protein, honey, vanilla, molasses, sage, blueberries, cranberries

When you do add raw liver you give only a thumb nail size to start. Don't add that in until you've gotten your consistent small stools. And then only once a week to start.

The treats I used to start with were chicken breast cut into small pieces (fingertip size) and frozen on a parchment paper covered, small cookie sheet. I tried using wax paper and the chicken stuck to it like glue. LOL I used small amounts of treats each day.

You're feeding chicken hindquarters? Cut off the skin and fat and any attached organs. Leave the meat and bone attached as is.

I kept my puppies on only chicken hindquarters for two weeks. I waited to add the fat and skin back in until I saw firm stools. Then I added chicken breast. Soon after pork or beef. Each time I watched the stool to see how they were doing.

I hope this helps. Don't give up! Rather start over and strip away everything. Give them skinless, fatless, organ-free chicken hindquarter. Throw away the skin, fat, and small organs. Check stools. Add either skin or fat back in when you see firm, small stools. Check stools.


Hey, I used to be a nurse and checking stools was the most important part of our rounds. :wink: You didn't go home until you got that right. :wink:

 

[DaneMama]

Are your dogs good chewers or do they gulp their food?

 

[whiteleo]

This one may also have to try to find chicken backs.

 

[RawFedDogs]

The main causes of soft, runny, or watery stools in newly switched dogs are:

1. Too much food - Feed smaller meals -- This very well may be your problem.

2. Too much fat - Remove skin and excess fat from food IF you have a problem -- You are already handling that.

3. Organs added too early in the diet - wait a couple of months to feed organs -- Be sure you are not feeding organs.

4. Too much variety too early in the diet -- Feed chicken only for a week or so.

5. Not enough bone in the diet - Feed more bone -- This MAY be the problem also.

ETA: When a person begins to feed a raw diet and they have multiple dogs that have problems, there is something about the way it's being fed or what is being fed. It's not the dogs, its the humans. Since I'm not there to watch you, I don't have a clue what it could be but I'm guessing too large of meals or you are feeding stuff you didn't mention.

 

[magicre]

chicken backs, stripped of excess fat, organs and skin saved my dogs from home cooking...

i fed them chicken backs for two weeks until their stools stabilised....i still keep them on hand...those and turkey necks...because mine were the ones who transitioned at a snail's pace..

even now, if i overfeed malia, she will get runny poo.....if i give her beef liver from grassfed/grass finished beef..i have to remember to give smaller amounts....because it is richer than grocery store and she is a pain in the neck that way.

every dog is the same and every dog is different....

back off the fat and skin and underfeed a little....give them at least two months to adjust....it's not just a transition for them...it's a learning curve for you too..

hang in there..honest. it's worth it.

 

[hbwright]

thanks yall, I have cut out al treats besides small amounts of cooked chicken. I'd estimate about a tbsp at most of little slivers for training. They don't ned much, just something. The boxer now is getting about 3/4 a pound in one meal and the doberman about a pound and a half. Both with all skin and fat removed and the little bit of organ I can get out. I'm going to hit walmart and see if I can find backs. I've never seen them sold around here but haven't paid much attention. So far I've been taking the extra meat I cut off their quarters for coking for treats so that is included in the chicken quarter weights. The doberman is training more so he gets more of the cooked chicken than the boxer but I'd say it is in coorelation to the amounts fed if that makes sense. Other than these my other treats are all put up or we are out of them.

It will be 2 weeks on next Monday so I'm going to hope that with the chicken backs if I can find them will help their stool by then.

 

[whiteleo]

You won't probably find chicken backs, you need to go to a bigger store and ask to order maybe a 10-20 lb box the more the less they will cost per lb. Don't call, just go into the meat dept and ask if you can order some chicken backs, and put it on his next order.

 

[DaneMama]

thanks yall, I have cut out al treats besides small amounts of cooked chicken. I'd estimate about a tbsp at most of little slivers for training. They don't ned much, just something. The boxer now is getting about 3/4 a pound in one meal and the doberman about a pound and a half. Both with all skin and fat removed and the little bit of organ I can get out. I'm going to hit walmart and see if I can find backs. I've never seen them sold around here but haven't paid much attention. So far I've been taking the extra meat I cut off their quarters for coking for treats so that is included in the chicken quarter weights. The doberman is training more so he gets more of the cooked chicken than the boxer but I'd say it is in coorelation to the amounts fed if that makes sense. Other than these my other treats are all put up or we are out of them.

It will be 2 weeks on next Monday so I'm going to hope that with the chicken backs if I can find them will help their stool by then.

What major city are you located in? You wont be able to find them at walmart probably but if you call a meat wholesale distributor they will probably carry them. But usually they are not in smaller towns. I can help you find some places but I don't know where you're located.

 

[magicre]

do you have any independent grocers where you live? or butchers? or ethnic grocers?

at my oriental or latino grocery store around here, i can get chicken feet and chicken backs by the case....

my supermarkets don't carry this kind of stuff....backs rock in the beginning....

i imagine my dogs will be getting backs forever....even if not as often as they did in the beginning.

 

[hbwright]

We have a compare foods which is a smaller grocery chain that may have or be able to order them and a local butcher so I'll try both of them. For tonight I butchered my own quarters as much as I could and just cooked up the rest. The cats also get some of the scraps but they are little scavengers that will eat anything so they are loving it.

I forgot to answer about the gulping. Jubilee takes forever to eat. Jordan crunches, chews and swallows. He did once swallow it in two pieces, regurged and then crunched it up the rigt way the second time. He hasn't done that since.

 

[DaneMama]

The one that takes a long time to eat could probably be fed wings, which have a higher bone content than quarters or even backs....just a thought.

 

[hbwright]

Would wings be too small for her? She is not typically a swallower but I would still be nervous. She is the boxer around 45 pounds.

Update, the doberman now has hard stool again. Not knowing normal raw poops I'd probably say it is normal. He is not straining.

Also, the boxer seems to have trouble passing her diarrhea. She seems to strain to get out strands of mucus. My only concern with this is that I've had an obstruction in the doberman before with a rubber ball so of course I get overconcerned where blockages come in. I have not worried because she is a pistol and I would definitely note discomfort or lethargy with her and there has been none at all. Could she just be feeling maybe some inflammation causing the feeling of having to go?

What about probiotics? I get nervous using these too because I've heard that not enough can be actually damaging rather than beneficial according to my mothers home cooking nutritonist recommendations.

 

[DaneMama]

If your dog chews well wings should be fine but if you're nervous about it just keep doing what you're doing and she will get set to normal soon enough.

Inflammation causes discomfort so it doesn't surprise me that she's straining. Maybe hold her off of food for 24 hours to let her system settle down a bit and then add about half her normal ration in the next day. This will at least be a good start to getting her bowels happy again.

 

[Doc]

Happy bowels? roflmao