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I am certain that dogs are what science calls a hypercarnivore, as defined by google as "an animal where more than 70% of the diet is meat from animals."

However, on the matter of whether they should have all meat, I am unsure.

Dogs do not produce amylase in their saliva like herbivores, but they do produce large amounts of it within the digestive tract, and can also produce their own taurine, suggesting that they are capable of living (though not thriving!) on vegetables alone.

My question is this: should vegetables be completely excluded from a canine diet? If no, how much should they receive? How much vegetation does your dog eat?

Just thought I'd put this up for discussion, I'm very interested in the response... :biggrin: I'm thinking I will give Bonnie maybe a vegetable a week or so.

-Cliff and Bonnie
 

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Certainly they will do no harm, but they don't do any good, either. They just make your dog's poop bigger and more expensive :biggrin:

If my dog eats carrots (and he loves them as treats!) they come out the other end looking like, well, carrots. You could probably hose them off and they would look like new.:eek:

If my dog eats a bit of grass, it ends up in his poop looking like a grassy rope. It in no way changes forms.

Since dogs don't have teeth designed to break down the cellulose cell wall in plant cells, the gut to ferment plant material, or the correct stomach PH, this tells me.. that they can't digest plants! As evidenced by the fact that veggies look the same on the way out as they do on the way in. :biggrin:

If they can't digest them, they can't extract nutrients from them..

My dog has eaten nothing but raw meat and the occasional carrot piece as a treat for five months now and looks great. Much better than his kibble fed littermate.

There are people here that have fed raw meat/bone/organ ONLY for years and have had the same results.
 

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I made my decision based on what I've read from David Mech and Tom Lonsdale's books. Lonsdale said that vegetables must be cooked and pureed first, but that they were not necessary if the rest of the diet was varied and balanced. Mech goes on about what nutrients wolves glean from what parts of the carcass, and he said that wolves get all their nutrients from everything but the vegetable matter in the digestive tract.

Every now and again I might give some leftovers to the dogs, or if I'm snacking on some carrots or strawberries or something, I might toss them a piece or two. But I've been feeding about 99.9% meat, bones, and organs since February, and so far everything seems to be going well.
 

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Well my dogs get to eat all the grass and plants they want daily, they have always done this, when they were on kibble, when they started raw, etc.

Mine don't do well with with veggies, I have given them lettuce/carrots, etc. in the past and all it did was make their stools liquid. However, when it comes to munching on grass and plants, I have never seen them poop out grass or leaves.
I don't understand it, as many dogs tend to poop out grass the same way they ate it, I guess my dogs just do a good job of tearing and munching the plants before swallowing them and thus I never see it, or maybe it's that bit of amylase, I'll never know.

Still, what I am currently feeding them is nothing but meat/bone/organs, however they eat at least "10%" grass and plants daily, by their own choice of course.
 

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from what i've read, dogs do not need veggies...consequently, i do not feed them...

as to the statement that veggies do no harm, i respectfully disagree....carrots and most veggies contain sugar.....sugar is not a dog's friend...since they don't brush their teeth...

a raw fed dog.....if given the occasional carrot, can certainly keep his teeth cleaned...but why waste valuable caloric real estate on carrots when doggy will be much happier with a beef rib...or a rabbit or a big fat tongue...

so, other than occasionally eating new blades of grass....and much less of that now that they are getting tripe...and no i don't know why it is so, it just is....they get no veggies at all..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I do not think that small amounts of whole vegetables are detrimental as long as it is accompanied by fresh, teeth-cleaning, easily-digestible meat. After all, looking at youtube, there are quite a few people feeding their dogs vegan/vegetarian... while I do not support this at all, their dogs seem to be about as healthy as a kibblefed dog.
 

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Max was transitioned at a snail's pace from cooked food. The last bit of the cooked food given up was the canned pumpkin. I decided that it was doing him no good whatsoever if it came out looking the same way as when I gave it to him. I would be using veggies if he couldn't eat bones or organs though. I am all for the best diet for my dog and some situations call for no bone and/or animal organs, sad to say.
 

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No dogs don't need them one bit.

The way I see it...dogs are opportunistic carnivores. When meat is available they eat it up like nobody's business, but in times of famine they will eat anything to survive. Which is why dogs produce their own taurine and are able to survive off of a herbivorous diet. Its evolutionarily advantageous.

So the way I see it, if I'm able to provide my dogs what they would eat in times of plenty...IE meat I will. Why provide a diet that consists of what dogs would eat in times of famine???
 

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My pup loves apples and bananas, and I don't see them coming out the other end fully intact. I don't know how much nutritional benefit she's getting, but she is getting something, including, but not necessarily limited to, enjoyment.
 

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In my experience with my PWD, if I do not give cooked and purred veggies (about 30% of her daily food) then she will spend much of the day outside grazing frantically, pulling up the grass with roots, eat the entire thing and then slurp up the dirt below. Add in the veggies, the frantic grazing stops. She obviously needs something the veggies supply.
Plus all 3 of my dogs love 'em. <shrugs> Right or wrong, they get veggies.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
In my experience with my PWD, if I do not give cooked and purred veggies (about 30% of her daily food) then she will spend much of the day outside grazing frantically, pulling up the grass with roots, eat the entire thing and then slurp up the dirt below. Add in the veggies, the frantic grazing stops. She obviously needs something the veggies supply.
Plus all 3 of my dogs love 'em. <shrugs> Right or wrong, they get veggies.
How odd! I've never heard of such a thing. Well, it's a good owner who supplies the needs of his or her pets, no matter how weird. :)
 

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On my place the dogs slurp up goat and rabbit poo like candy, if I let them, and mine my rubber boots when I come in, if I let them. So, my question would be; do they need the predigested vegetables from the herbivors, do they need the probiotics in the dirt, or are they programed to cover the trail of an animal they are hunting?
 

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No dogs don't need them one bit.

The way I see it...dogs are opportunistic carnivores. When meat is available they eat it up like nobody's business, but in times of famine they will eat anything to survive. Which is why dogs produce their own taurine and are able to survive off of a herbivorous diet. Its evolutionarily advantageous.

So the way I see it, if I'm able to provide my dogs what they would eat in times of plenty...IE meat I will. Why provide a diet that consists of what dogs would eat in times of famine???
I totally agree :)
 
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