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Hi there,

I adopted a 3 year old sheltie cross about 3 months ago from a lady who could no longer care for her. She was feeding her pre mixed raw food, and we just decided to continue with that. The food is made locally and this is what it contains:

- Chicken 40%
- Beef (red meat and bone) 15%
- Beef (internal organs, tripe, kidney, heart) 20%
- Fish 20%
- Cooked Eggs 5%
Dry matter feed analysis shows 48% protein, 33% fat and 6% ash. The ingredients are fine ground and mixed together then frozen.

I also sometimes add a little bit of herring oil to this.

She has been eating this most of her life which is why I stuck to it, and the price is great so I am hoping to continue with it. She is doing really well on it, her stools are perfect, her energy is good, and her coat looks great!

The only problem I seem to be having is she has itchy skin. She is treated for fleas and ticks so that is definitely not the issue. I have notice on her inner back things in the crease of her leg seems to be quite red. I don't often see her licking it, but she may do so when we are not home. Is there something I should be adding to her food to help with this? Her skin is not dry all over, most areas look fine, it is just random areas will get dry and itchy. At one point it was the area above her tail, but right now the worst spot seems to be on her inner thighs.

Any advice is appreciated!
Thank you!
 

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dry matter feed analysis?
what is being fed which is dry?

stop the herring oil and see if that makes a difference.

since her diet is mostly chicken, her skin issues can be directly related to that. she needs raw eggs, not cooked....

and she needs more red meat.

i don't know how this company gets 48% protein....when animals range between 17-22%...

dogs run on fat as their energy source.....

what your dog is eating is too much chicken, too much fish......
 

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This is why I don't feed commercial food. 48% protein? Like re said, animals have around 20%.

If its listing "dry matter", and "cooked eggs", its probably not really raw anything. Commercial companies can call it anything they want to sell the product.

In short, no its not really a good diet. Are you interested in feeding prey model raw? You will know exactly what you are feeding that way.
 
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This is why I don't feed commercial food. 48% protein? Like re said, animals have around 20%.

If its listing "dry matter", and "cooked eggs", its probably not really raw anything. Commercial companies can call it anything they want to sell the product.

In short, no its not really a good diet. Are you interested in feeding prey model raw? You will know exactly what you are feeding that way.
Thank you both for your input! I am very new to the whole raw feeding thing and am just learning. I would prefer to stick to feeding pre made raw as I am just more comfortable with that, however I am open to ideas if that is what is best for my dog. I don't really know where I would get the meat from though if I were to do it myself, as I dont personally eat meat. There also seems to be a lot of different opinions on the amounts of different things you should feed. Would you be able to tell me where I can look to get a sample recipe?

Again thank you very much!
 

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Ive been buying a lot of mine at Walmart lately, but if you research what's in your area, you can find cheap and sometimes free meat from butchers, people cleaning out freezers etc....

In short, starting with chicken quarters is usually best for the first week or so, then move on to turkey, pork and other red meats. Then organs ate usually last or somewhere in the middle if all is going well.

You start with the blandest easiest to digest protein and move up as your dog adjusts. By feeding all the variety of meat/bone/organ that you can, the better. That's how you create balance.

What you are feeding now isn't nutritionally complete, and you may run into nutritional deficiencies down the the road.
 
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Ive been buying a lot of mine at Walmart lately, but if you research what's in your area, you can find cheap and sometimes free meat from butchers, people cleaning out freezers etc....

In short, starting with chicken quarters is usually best for the first week or so, then move on to turkey, pork and other red meats. Then organs ate usually last or somewhere in the middle if all is going well.

You start with the blandest easiest to digest protein and move up as your dog adjusts. By feeding all the variety of meat/bone/organ that you can, the better. That's how you create balance.

What you are feeding now isn't nutritionally complete, and you may run into nutritional deficiencies down the the road.
Thank you!! I have actually found another brand of pre made raw that is sold in pet stores and is well known around here. It is called Big Country Raw, Does this seem to be more nutritionally complete compared to what I am feeding now? They do recommend supplementing their meals with some herring oil. This is an example of what is in their Beef blend:

Beef Muscle Meat, Finely Ground Beef Bone, Beef Organ Meat (liver, kidney, spleen), Apples, Carrots, Organic Kale, Organic Spinach, Organic Blueberries, Organic Cranberries, Organic Kelp

Nutrition Facts

per 100 grams

Calories

186

Moisture
68%

Fat
14%

Protein
15%

Fibre
3%


Additional Product Info:

Muscle Meat

65%

Organ Meat

10%

Bone Content
15%

Fruit and Vegetable
10%
 

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hi....is there a reason you want to feed commercial raw?

oh. never mind...i just saw your answer.....

here's the thing....commercial raw, generally, is not very balanced.......especially when fruits are included. dogs should never have sugar or carbs for that matter.

you can, depending on where you live,

order from

Free Shipping! Grass-fed, pastured, raw pet food FREE delivery

http://www.hare-today.com

http://www.rawfeedingmiami.com ------they have starter packs and also offer a service for people who are new...and will build an order for you

i don't know enough about this company and would wonder about them...do your research and make sure they aren't feeding downer cows in their mix......plus they probably use a pasteurisation process of some kind and that makes the bacterial imbalanced......

personally, i'd start with chicken....

how much does your dog weigh?
 

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I don't eat meat either, Im actually vegan, and I usually buy from Meijer, Payless, and Walmart. Meijer has the best pork, Payless the best chicken and turkey, and Walmart has the best odds and ends. We also will buy some stuff from our local butcher block if they have it for a good price. It can seem pretty off putting at first but I think PMR is better than pre-made, since you have complete control over what they're eating. It usually comes out to be cheaper, from what I've seen,
 

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I don't eat meat either, Im actually vegan, and I usually buy from Meijer, Payless, and Walmart. Meijer has the best pork, Payless the best chicken and turkey, and Walmart has the best odds and ends. We also will buy some stuff from our local butcher block if they have it for a good price. It can seem pretty off putting at first but I think PMR is better than pre-made, since you have complete control over what they're eating. It usually comes out to be cheaper, from what I've seen,
I just feel overwhelmed thinking about doing it myself as there is sooo much information out there I don't know where to start or how much of each different thing to feed.. I see people talking about how the ratios are important and I wouldn't want to mess anything up!
 

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and i truly wish people would stop talking about this as if it's a science......they confuse you at worst...and at best, they are wrong.

this is not so difficult......honest. overwhelming, yes. and only because for sixty years or more, other people have been inundating us with bad info on what to feed our dogs, as if they knew...

which, they do not.

the people who know are the ones chasing wolves around and reporting back, over the years.......and generally disputing as wrong information, much of what you've been giving yourself
a headache about

same goes for most of us....who listened to these guidelines someone pulled out of their patootie.........

truth is, dogs are carnivores.......anatomically and physiologically. this is fact and facts don't lie. the way the dog is built tells you what they eat. how they are built tells you why they eat what they eat.

so.

protein. fat. bone. organ.

that's it.

if you tell me how much your dog weighs, i promise you we can get you started and on your way with a little bit of hand holding.
 

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i don't know enough about this company and would wonder about them...do your research and make sure they aren't feeding downer cows in their mix......plus they probably use a pasteurisation process of some kind and that makes the bacterial imbalanced......

personally, i'd start with chicken....

how much does your dog weigh?
I just realized this company has a "pure blend" as well, without all the added fruits etc. For example their pure chicken blend only contains Chicken (meat & bone), and Chicken Liver. Their meat is all antibiotic / hormone free and their chickens are free range, and beef is grass fed. It comes in duck, rabbit, turkey, beef, chicken, kangaroo... they seem to have a lot! also she weighs 63 lbs :)
 

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if you tell me how much your dog weighs, i promise you we can get you started and on your way with a little bit of hand holding.
Thank you so much, it is definitely overwhelming for someone who is new to this and looking for information on how to get started. She weighs 63 pounds.
 

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at sixty three pounds, i would start with chicken quarters.

i would feed 18 ounces to start

nutrients.jpg

if, at the end of the first week, you are still feeling overwhelmed, then go with this company but start with chicken, keeping in mind that this company puts organs into
their grinds....

we tend to start with gentle and build up to complex proteins.........with a balance over time.....
 

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at sixty three pounds, i would start with chicken quarters.

i would feed 18 ounces to start

View attachment 13130

if, at the end of the first week, you are still feeling overwhelmed, then go with this company but start with chicken, keeping in mind that this company puts organs into
their grinds....

we tend to start with gentle and build up to complex proteins.........with a balance over time.....
Thank you! I have about a month of her current raw food to finish up and then I will try this.. Or maybe I will start incorporating it in with the other food. Is it bad that this company puts organs into their grinds? I thought they were supposed to eat the organs?

Thanks again!
 

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i would put the other food back in the freezer and start over. save the other stuff for emergencies.

organs......ah, that depends on who is talking.

talk to me? i think we over feed organs.

if you look at that chart i posted, you'll see vitamins a, d, e, k. these are fat soluble vitamins. no one pees these out if given too much, as with water soluble vitamins......the kidneys filtrate those and discard/excrete what is not needed.

with organs, however, these are fat soluble vitamins......and they are used when needed, stored when not needed.

what happens if we are overfeeding organs. who determined organs were to be 10% of the diet, liver being five....

ever watch a pack of wolves hunt?

one gets the liver. one.

the rotation of organs is determined by hierarchy and how good the kill was.

is that the perfect solution? no...but it illustrates a point. there are lots of reasons wolves die.......in the wild........

but our dogs are in a controlled environment....we feed them daily......they don't fast until the next kill. they have us preparing food.

so that changes things a little.

i feed organs about once a month for a week.......i also feed eggs.......once a month or so......

these are the conclusions i've come to believe........i go by anatomy and physiology......
 

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I just feel overwhelmed thinking about doing it myself as there is sooo much information out there I don't know where to start or how much of each different thing to feed.. I see people talking about how the ratios are important and I wouldn't want to mess anything up!
You won't mess anything up. The ratios are just guides, that's all. In the end, feed all the variety you can and it will all come together.

First, get some chicken quarters. Feed those only for about the week and half, and see how it goes during that time. Right now, don't think about anything but chicken. A quarter or two a day. That's it. Then, let us know how things are going and we will guide through any potential issues.
 
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There are known nutritional requirements for canines. The PRM ratios are an excellent way to ensure the correct nutrients and the balance of minerals are provided in the diet.

Science is our friend, and not the enemy. It is not necessary for every raw feeder to do his or her due diligence by checking known nutrients in the UDSA database against known nutritional needs, but those who do so will discover the PRM ratios were not just settled no without cause.

I'd suggest Jenna make it easy on herself by following PRM ratios as closely as possible when (and if) she decides to make her own meals.

Following PRM ratios for meals insures optimal nutrition, makes digestion easy, virtually eliminates issues of either loose stools or constipation, and maintains the critical calcium/phosphorus mineral balance.

Keep it simple.
 

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There are known nutritional requirements for canines. The PRM ratios are an excellent way to ensure the correct nutrients and the balance of minerals are provided in the diet.

Science is our friend, and not the enemy. It is not necessary for every raw feeder to do his or her due diligence by checking known nutrients in the UDSA database against known nutritional needs, but those who do so will discover the PRM ratios were not just settled no without cause.

I'd suggest Jenna make it easy on herself by following PRM ratios as closely as possible when (and if) she decides to make her own meals.

Following PRM ratios for meals insures optimal nutrition, makes digestion easy, virtually eliminates issues of either loose stools or constipation, and maintains the critical calcium/phosphorus mineral balance.

Keep it simple.
i'll go with keep it simple. :)

but, from where do these guidelines originate?
 

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i'll go with keep it simple. :)

but, from where do these guidelines originate?
I'm not sure which person (or persons) is/are responsible for originating PRM ratios. My understanding is the model is predicated on reproducing an approximation of prey percentaces canines would have evolved to eat over eons in the wild.

What is clear is that 10% bone (relative to 80% "meat" and 10% organ) does a great job of keeping the critically important calcium to phosphorus ratios dogs require in the correct balance. Serious veterinary problems can result from an imbalance ratio of these minerals.


10% organs helps keep vitamin and other nutrients on target.

The PMR numbers do check out when compared to our best understanding of veterinary canine nutrition.
 

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I'm not sure which person (or persons) is/are responsible for originating PRM ratios. My understanding is the model is predicated on reproducing an approximation of prey percentaces canines would have evolved to eat over eons in the wild.

What is clear is that 10% bone (relative to 80% "meat" and 10% organ) does a great job of keeping the critically important calcium to phosphorus ratios dogs require in the correct balance. Serious veterinary problems can result from an imbalance ratio of these minerals.


10% organs helps keep vitamin and other nutrients on target.

The PMR numbers do check out when compared to our best understanding of veterinary canine nutrition.
when tom lonsdale wrote 'raw meaty bones', his recommend was, if memory serves, 50% bone......he talks a lot about feeding carcasses......
when my friend writes about her journey following wolves, she writes about what they eat. and it is nowhere near the 80-10-10.......'guideline' someone made up.......
the san diego zoo feeds beef heart and whole chickens, along with some rodents......the washington d.c. zoo feeds kibble...shame on them.
ian billinghurst included all kinds of vegetable/fruit matter....and dogs cannot digest this...

i will say this.

one thing that strikes me is how people seem to 'need' numbers, rather than just feed real food..
secondly, it's a balance over time, not balance per meal.

but we'll agree to disagree and i'll turn this thread back to the original poster. :)
 
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