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Discussion Starter #1
we were at a market today and the butcher was selling us scrap....actually, he sold us the scrap that would go into making hamburger 80/20...

what he said to me was interesting, since he feeds his dogs raw.

that i should be careful in feeding beef to my dogs, unless it's grass fed, grass finished, as corn fed beef can cause high cholesterol in dogs, although not as easily as it does in humans....

that i should only feed the dogs a little bit of the grain fed beef and then i should buy grass fed...and not because he was trying to sell me.

my co op sells me grass fed/grass finished...and that's all well and good...

but, when i run out of that...it's supermarket beef, which is grain fed or grain finished or both.

so what is the risk of high cholesterol for dogs, considering red meat is preferred over other proteins?
 

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I would think it would depend if beef is your primary food for your dogs?

I would have to first do some research and find out if high cholesteral is actually a concern in dogs. I don't remember it being a problem and I've never actually had a dog with any heart problems in all my years of feeding them grocery store kibble in the past. I have seen the occasional dog with a heart condition at work, but not that often. Usually there are a lot of other health problems that are seen before any heart conditions come up.

So I don't imagine a raw fed dog that eats regular beef as one part of his diet will develop enough of a cholesteral problem from it to be a concern.

Just my opinion. It might require some more research on the topic. A think a varied diet would take care of any problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
he wasn't saying that beef was the problem....he was saying what the cows eat is the problem....and also applies to humans...

corn fed vs. grass fed is what gives people heart attacks and beef a bad rap is what he's saying.

and, i would say my dogs eat red meat quite a bit...BUT, having said that,
a meal for them may include some sardine, chicken, beef, pork, lamb...all at once...depending on the day of the week, how much bone they've had or need....

i defrost proteins, rather than bag meals..
 

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he wasn't saying that beef was the problem....he was saying what the cows eat is the problem....and also applies to humans...

corn fed vs. grass fed is what gives people heart attacks and beef a bad rap is what he's saying.

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I understand.....and unless people or dogs are eating a large quantity of only beef, I really don't think it is a problem. Moderation and variation is the key in everything (in my opinion) and it sounds like your dogs are getting a variety of proteins.

Now, if you were a person eating a prime rib dinner every night and giving one to your dog then I might be concerned :biggrin:

Maybe someone else has some actual data to support the information?
 

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OK, until all this is settled ... please ship all red meat to me. I'll eat grass and grain fed. :biggrin:
 

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I know that back in NZ, all the beef is grass fed. And, there are still plenty of heart attacks, you believe me! (No idea how many, if any dogs drop dead from the big one though).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
chowder....i want some data, too....

i am not a believer that red meat is bad....at all.

red blood cells and bone marrow need red meat...it's one of our biggest nutrients....
it's the comment about the corn and the grass...that bothers me.

didn't we grow up on corn fed beef?

doc....you'll just deep fry it and put sawdust gravy on it. :p

molly.....all kidding aside, that's nice to know? LOL
 

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so what is the risk of high cholesterol for dogs, considering red meat is preferred over other proteins?
I don't think cholesterol is a problem for dogs. With humans it takes 30 or 40 years of poor eating to cause significant high colestrol usually. Dogs just don't live that long.

At least thats my story and I'm sticking to it. :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't think cholesterol is a problem for dogs. With humans it takes 30 or 40 years of poor eating to cause significant high colestrol usually. Dogs just don't live that long.

At least thats my story and I'm sticking to it. :smile:
i didn't think so either...but what he says about grain fed is not off the wall.

corn is a starch. starches are the bane of our existence, not red meat...

so i guess what he's saying is that because most beef is finished off with grain, then we are at risk....because grain is the culprit.

course, if that is true and chicken is allegedly our salvation, what are they being fed?
 

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I'll fry any of it in my cast iron skillet and pour SAWMILL (not sawdust) gravey over it and serve it over two cathead biskits! Along with some 'tater cakes and hop-n-john.:smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The beef premade raw formula I'm currently offering my dogs is all grass-fed:

Bravo! Products - Original Formula - Beef

I like Bravo Raw Diet because it's made here in Connecticut and is widely available to me. Never have any problems getting it.
i'm not saying that bravo does this, but i learned the hard way that grass fed doesn't mean grass finished...many farmers feed grain at the end to fatten up the cow, so they can make more money at time of sale for slaughter.

there is a person who gets us beef for our co op and she raises and shows swiss mountain dogs...she will ONLY feed grass fed/grass finished beef, so she searches high and low for the farmer/rancher who does that...

i tasted it, actually...it tastes different than the beef i buy at the store...

i just never thought about grain fed beef causing a cholesterol problem....

but it would make sense that, at least, in humans it might....

then again...chickens, which we're supposed to eat all day and all night...aren't they fed grains?

so i don't get why this butcher said that to me....and that too much grain fed beef would give my dogs high cholesterol....and also give me high cholesterol...
 

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well here is a scenario for you, when we use to feed horses grain, cob grain to be exact corn oats and barley with mollasses, it use to make some some horse hot. Sugar being broken down into carbs, could that have anything to do with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
well here is a scenario for you, when we use to feed horses grain, cob grain to be exact corn oats and barley with mollasses, it use to make some some horse hot. Sugar being broken down into carbs, could that have anything to do with it.
i can only speak for humans, but that is the newest thinking.....which seems to have spilled over to animals, too...

that we are not meant to consume grain....nor are dogs....so i can only presume that horses aren't supposed to either....

carbs are what raise cholesterol (include starchy carbs like corn and yams, potatoes, especially, and sugary carbs, like carrots)

the american diabetic association is fighting this notion, but the science is starting to prove it out...

now, take it one step further....the animal that eats the very things that hurt humans and dogs.....will that animal hurt humans and dogs because it's being fed grain?
 

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i'm not saying that bravo does this, but i learned the hard way that grass fed doesn't mean grass finished...many farmers feed grain at the end to fatten up the cow, so they can make more money at time of sale for slaughter.
Here is the way I THINK it operates around here. Farmers raise their cattle in pastures. There are zillions of acres pasture land around here with grazing cattle in them. Once the farmer has the cow to a point that it has grown about as much as it will and they have gotten a calf or two out of the cow, it is taken to the "sale" which is an auction. Around here the auction barn is open every Monday.

All the cows that arive at the auction are grass fed beef and have never been fed anything else. They are bought at the auction by the feed lot owners who take these cows and cowd them together in small pens and feed them nothing but grain. I don't know for how long.

Then the feed lot cows are sold to the slaughter houses who kill and dress the cows for the grocery stores. I'm not 100% sure if the feed lot and slaughter houses are owned by the same people.

I do know that the cows that go to the auction are grass fed only and can be 2 or 3 or 4 years old.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i agree with that scenario....because in driving cross country, there is the one border thing going on...and the brand is what defines ownership, so many cattle graze freely and are probably only protected during the winter...or they've been slaughtered by then....i figure it's a seasonal thing..

so, the grain....would only occur for a little while....but it does change the taste of the beef....

having recently had grass fed/grass finished beef vs. the prime rib eye we just bought on sale (man, is THAT tasty)....there is a huge difference in taste...

and, if there is a difference in taste.....would that little amount of grain make that much of a difference?

in human terms...if i live a hundred years and only eat grain for two months, why would i have high cholesterol....makes no sense what this butcher says..

BECAUSE --

what are chickens fed? grain, right?

and the AMA and the ADA and all of the nutritionists in the world are encouraging us to eat chicken and avoid saturated fat, which i disagree with....to begin with...we need red meat. we are, after all, carnivores....

so, i think i'll just chalk this butcher up to wanting me to buy grass fed/grass finished beef and erase it....from my memory banks.
 

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Beef, grass-fed, ground, raw
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Beef, grass-fed, ground, raw
One ounce contains
Omega-3 fatty acids 24.6mg
Omega-6 fatty acids 120mg
Cholesterol 19 mg

Beef, ground, 85% lean meat / 15% fat, raw
[same calories as the grass fed beef]
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Beef, ground, 85% lean meat / 15% fat, raw [hamburger]
One ounce contains
Omega-3 fatty acids 11.8 mg
Omega-6 fatty acids 99.1 mg
Cholesterol 17.4mg

Game meat, deer, ground, raw [venison]
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Game meat, deer, ground, raw [venison]
One ounce contains
Omega-3 fatty acids 29.1mg
Omega-6 fatty acids 63.0mg
Cholesterol 22.4mg

Might be a good idea to look at numbers here. I would certainly prefer to feed venison rather than beef and I would prefer to feed grass fed beef than grain fed but any of these is pretty good stuff.

Chicken, broilers or fryers, meat and skin, raw
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Chicken, broilers or fryers, meat and skin, raw
One ounce contains
Omega-3 fatty acids 53.2mg
Omega-6 fatty acids 807mg
Cholesterol 21mg

I care more about the Omega 3:6 ration than the cholesterol!

Omega 3:6 ratio
Venison 1:2.2
Grass fed beef 1:4.9
Grain fed beef 1:8.4
Chicken 1:15

I wonder if the high O6 and cholesterol in chicken has to do with the grain feeding. Chickens need animal protein so the grain and soy they are stuffed with is even less appropriate than it is for cattle.
 

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I wonder if the high O6 and cholesterol in chicken has to do with the grain feeding. Chickens need animal protein so the grain and soy they are stuffed with is even less appropriate than it is for cattle.
That was really interesting. I know you can buy eggs from cage free chickens because I do it all the time and they say that they have less cholesteral in them, but has anyone ever heard of buying 'free range' chickens themselves? Do they actually sell them in stores?

We have actually checked into getting 'free range' chickens when we buy our land and using them to keep the land free of bugs so in essence, they will be fed entirely on animal protein (bug protein!). There are specific breeds that are specialists in bug eating that my husband has picked out. I really hadn't planned on eating them though, just getting the eggs. I can't picture myself killing and plucking chickens, although my grandma was a pro at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
wow...that's beautiful research..

to further complicate this...now that we're digressing...and i do so love the process....

here is an article about omega 6.....but in a nutshell, whilst we cannot get enough omega 3 fatty acids....we CAN over do it on the omega 6.

in other words....

The Good and Bad of Omega 6 Fatty Acids

there's no win win LOL
 
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