[claybuster]

If you like to do comparisons, here are some numbers:

Chicken Meal

Typical Analysis
Crude Protein 63.00%
Crude Fat 12.00%
Crude Fiber 2.50%
Ash 18.00%
Moisture 4.50%
Grind 99% thru #12
Color Golden Brown
Digestibility 90.00%+
Metabolizable Energy 1,579 Kcal/lb=3,474 Kcal/kg



Minerals & Vitamins
Calcium 4.00%
Phosphorus 2.00%
Available Phosphorus 2.00%
Salt Equivalent 1.50%
Sodium 0.60%
Chloride 0.90%
Potassium 0.60%
Choline 5,992 mg/kg



Amino Acid Profile



Aspartic Acid 5.14%
Threonine 2.80%
Serine 2.87%
Glutamic Acid 8.36%
Proline 3.76%
Glycine 7.39%
Alanine 4.80%
Cystine 0.95%
Methionine 1.30%
Isoleucine 2.85%
Hydroxyproline 2.48%
Leucine 4.28%
Tyrosine 1.70%
Phenylalanine 2.52%
Histidine 1.39%
Lysine 4.30%
TSAA 2.25%
Ammonia 0.73%
Arginine 4.61%
Tryptophan 0.66%
Valine 2.84%
Taurine 0.40%

65% Poultry By-Product Meal Pet Food Grade


Typical Analysis
Crude Protein 65.00%
Crude Fat 12.50%
Crude Fiber 2.50%
Ash 12.00%
Moisture 5.50%
Grind 99% thru #12
Color Golden Brown
Digestibility 90.00%+
Metabolizable Energy 1,575 Kcal/lb=3,465 Kcal/kg
TDN 78.00%
NEL 0.08
UIP 60.00%



Minerals & Vitamins
Calcium 3.60%
Phosphorus 1.80%
Available Phosphorus 1.80%
Salt Equivalent 1.50%
Sodium 0.60%
Chloride 0.90%
Potassium 0.90%
Manganese 10 mg/kg
Choline 5,940 mg/kg
Magnesium 0.20%



Amino Acid Profile



Aspartic Acid 5.10%
Threonine 2.71%
Serine 2.59%
Glutamic Acid 9.93%
Proline 4.26%
Glycine 9.07%
Alanine 5.08%
Cystine 0.62%
Methionine 1.30%
Valine 2.54%
Isoleucine 2.71%
Leucine 4.55%
Tyrosine 2.21%
Phenylalanine 2.79%
Histidine 1.23%
Lysine 4.30%
TSAA 1.92%
Ammonia 0.83%
Arginine 4.88%
Tryptophan 0.41%
Taurine 0.38%
Hydroxyproline 2.23%


Sources:

65% Poultry By-Product Meal

Chicken Meal

 

[RawFedDogs]

Very interesting. There must be more "rejects" thrown in the by-product bin than I thought. Those would be chickens with cancerous growths, tumors, and infected open wounds. I didn't realize those made up such a large percentage of the by-product meal. I wonder what makes up the other 35%?

Good information. I sure would love to see an ingredients list on both the chicken by-product meal and chicken meal.

ETA: I wonder how the financing works. Are the rendering plants paid to haul off this waste or do they have to buy it and pay for it?

 

[ChattyCathy]

OK. Bear w/me a moment... I find that alot of you "guys" are quite knowledgeable about the food nutrition and what should and shouldn't be in dog food. I'm still learning and don't quite understand what it is I should be looking for in a quality, good or bad dog food (kibble). I'm learning that no grain is better than grain. But when is it ok to give some grain? Or not? Is there somewhere I can read up on this so as not to waste anyone's time? Any recommendations?

And, w/the above list that Claybuster has posted (I love comparisons) I don't know what to look for or not. Can you tell I'm nieve about this stuff. And, I would GREATLY appreciate how to do this. For instance, I see ash in one and not the other... is this good or bad? If I've posted this in the wrong place please let me know where I should post this. THANK YOU!!

 

[RawFedDogs]

I'm learning that no grain is better than grain. But when is it ok to give some grain? Or not?

All grain is inappropriate for dogs.

Is there somewhere I can read up on this so as not to waste anyone's time? Any recommendations?

Check out http://www.dogfoodpruject.com
Particularly the following pages:
The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid
The Dog Food Project - Grading kibble - easily?
The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

More good pages would be:
Raw Feeding
Raw Feeding FAQ
The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
Raw Meaty Bones

For instance, I see ash in one and not the other... is this good or bad?

I think you can get information on ash on the "ingredients to avoid" page of dogfoodproject.com.

There are a lot of us that are knowledgable but that doesn't mean we agree on everything. Seems the more we know, the more we find little nit picking things to disagree about. :smile:

Personally I know that dogs are wolves and while wolves are carnivores should eat nothing but meat, bones, and organs of any animal they can catch and kill. I think there is not a kibble that is made that you should subject your dog to eating. They are all bad without exception. Some are more bad than others but basically there is very little difference between them. Other's aren't so strict as I am but of course I am the one who is right. :smile: :smile: :smile:

 

[claybuster]

And, w/the above list that Claybuster has posted (I love comparisons) I don't know what to look for or not. Can you tell I'm nieve about this stuff. And, I would GREATLY appreciate how to do this. For instance, I see ash in one and not the other... is this good or bad? If I've posted this in the wrong place please let me know where I should post this. THANK YOU!!

I think the important thing to note is CM and CBPM are almost identical in profile, so when you see either one listed as a #1 ingredient, the nutritional value would be very similar. Unless of course you want to believe this blender only gets quality chickens and that blender gets the ones that fell off the truck...lol. You're welcome Cathy, glad you like the comparisons!

 

[claybuster]

Also, it is OK to be skeptical when visiting sites like the dogfoodproject. You will find the info mainly a reflection of industry norm, which is the best approach in feeding your dog like an omnivore.

 

[rannmiller]

You will find the info mainly a reflection of industry norm, which is the best approach in feeding your dog like an omnivore.

Which we all know, dogs are not; they are carnivores.

 

[ChattyCathy]

Check out http://www.dogfoodpruject.com
Particularly the following pages:
The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid
The Dog Food Project - Grading kibble - easily?
The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

More good pages would be:
Raw Feeding
Raw Feeding FAQ
The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
Raw Meaty Bones

Thanks for the above. I put them all on my bookmark to read when I have the time to do so.

There are a lot of us that are knowledgable but that doesn't mean we agree on everything. Seems the more we know, the more we find little nit picking things to disagree about.

I know and I love reading these posts. (ha, ha)

Personally I know that dogs are wolves and while wolves are carnivores should eat nothing but meat, bones, and organs of any animal they can catch and kill. I think there is not a kibble that is made that you should subject your dog to eating. They are all bad without exception. Some are more bad than others but basically there is very little difference between them. Other's aren't so strict as I am but of course I am the one who is right. :smile: :smile: :smile:

I know RFD how you feel about this but I'm not there yet and not sure if I ever will be. But, I am checking it out. Thanks for all your good advice! :biggrin:

 

[ChattyCathy]

I think the important thing to note is CM and CBPM are almost identical in profile, so when you see either one listed as a #1 ingredient, the nutritional value would be very similar. Unless of course you want to believe this blender only gets quality chickens and that blender gets the ones that fell off the truck...lol. You're welcome Cathy, glad you like the comparisons!

OK. Another question. If the chicken by-products contain the yucky parts (i.e. cancerous stuff, etc.) isn't chicken meal better by comparison?

 

[LoveNewfies]

The difference in wording in the definitions of each, Poultry By-Product Meal and Poultry By-Products, is such that poultry by-product meal is allowed to consist of *rendered* clean parts, whereas poultry by-products must consist of non-rendered clean parts.

In my eyes, it's a catch 22 - meals, which allow rendered parts, are likely to be more digestible because the ingredients have been ground and reduced in particle size, making some ingredients that might not be bio-available otherwise more utilizable. However, you are likely looking at ingredients from rendered poultry. The flip side, the ingredient "poultry by-products" is not ground or reduced to smaller particle sizes and *may* not be as utilizable depending upon the actual ingredients. Which one is actually better? Well, again, it's a catch 22. Knowing that the ingredients in the meal are likely from rendered sources can be a bit iffy, but meals are required to have particular nutritional content whereas by-products themselves do not.

For these reasons, I don't typically recommend foods that rely heavily on by-products in any form. By-products in the form that raw feeders give are a bit different as we are giving fresh "by-products" and are somewhat particular about what by-products we give. I do not feed intestines. I do feed organs that may otherwise not be appealing to the human food industry.

 

[claybuster]

OK. Another question. If the chicken by-products contain the yucky parts (i.e. cancerous stuff, etc.) isn't chicken meal better by comparison?

It may contain the yucky parts, but to assume it must mean these birds had cancer or leprosy is kinda silly. One is bone and carcass, and the other is bone, carcass, and the added bonus of some organ meat. The only thing that really makes one better than the other by comparison is personal aesthetic appeal.

 

[claybuster]

In my eyes, it's a catch 22 - meals, which allow rendered parts, are likely to be more digestible ...

I follow what your saying, but if you note in the comparisons, both meal and by-product meal have a digestibility of 90%+ and they are both going through the same grind of 99 through #12. I would assert they are both as equally digestible and no catch 22 in that scenario. I think most feel like yourself though as far as what to serve, if we don't eat then it doesn't go to the dog....aesthetic appeal factor.

 

[ChattyCathy]

I think the important thing to note is CM and CBPM are almost identical in profile, so when you see either one listed as a #1 ingredient, the nutritional value would be very similar. Unless of course you want to believe this blender only gets quality chickens and that blender gets the ones that fell off the truck...lol. You're welcome Cathy, glad you like the comparisons!

Good to know. I'll keep it in mind.

 

[ChattyCathy]

The difference in wording in the definitions of each, Poultry By-Product Meal and Poultry By-Products, is such that poultry by-product meal is allowed to consist of *rendered* clean parts, whereas poultry by-products must consist of non-rendered clean parts.

In my eyes, it's a catch 22 - meals, which allow rendered parts, are likely to be more digestible because the ingredients have been ground and reduced in particle size, making some ingredients that might not be bio-available otherwise more utilizable. However, you are likely looking at ingredients from rendered poultry. The flip side, the ingredient "poultry by-products" is not ground or reduced to smaller particle sizes and *may* not be as utilizable depending upon the actual ingredients. Which one is actually better? Well, again, it's a catch 22. Knowing that the ingredients in the meal are likely from rendered sources can be a bit iffy, but meals are required to have particular nutritional content whereas by-products themselves do not.

For these reasons, I don't typically recommend foods that rely heavily on by-products in any form. By-products in the form that raw feeders give are a bit different as we are giving fresh "by-products" and are somewhat particular about what by-products we give. I do not feed intestines. I do feed organs that may otherwise not be appealing to the human food industry.

Also good to know. Thanks.

 

[Plymouth2009]

Byproducts are disgusting! It can be composed of heads, feet, necks, bones, blood, cancerous tissue, 4-D animals, etc. I would never feed my dog ANYTHING that contained byproducts. I love and care for them too much to risk their health and wellness.

 

[ChattyCathy]

Byproducts are disgusting! It can be composed of heads, feet, necks, bones, blood, cancerous tissue, 4-D animals, etc. I would never feed my dog ANYTHING that contained byproducts. I love and care for them too much to risk their health and wellness.

I'm curious... what do you feed all of your dogs? Do they get the same foods?

 

[RawFedDogs]

Byproducts are disgusting! It can be composed of heads, feet, necks, bones, blood, cancerous tissue, 4-D animals, etc. I would never feed my dog ANYTHING that contained byproducts. I love and care for them too much to risk their health and wellness.

I think that was the whole point of this thread. Even though by-products are not very pleasing estheticly, they are very nutritous and healthy for your dog. Remember that in the wild your dog would gladly eat all those by-products.

 

[Postal]

I'm curious... what do you feed all of your dogs? Do they get the same foods?

10 bucks says Artemis Maximal !!!!!

 

[ChattyCathy]

10 bucks says Artemis Maximal !!!!!

ha, ha, ha. We'll see when/if he answers...:smile:

 

[Postal]

ha, ha, ha. We'll see when/if he answers...:smile:

I guess we'll never know. I think RFD banned him because he deleted all his threads lol. Farewell! :smile:

This board is becoming quite exciting hehe