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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I welcome CBPM in my dogs diet. I know it is there to for a reason and that is to deliver what the dog needs most. Carnivore style rations with focus on animal source proteins and the avoidance of gluten. I feel it is very beneficial for my dog.
 

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good info, what are your thoughts on this.
I think its garbage. It's an over priced sensationalized book with a lot of half truths in it. It proves that anyone can sell anything no matter how worthless over the internet.
 

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And haven't several of us said that before? How about if you stop posting that crap here!?!?

Oh wait, I suppose Big Dog Man is the author! Hahahaha! It's still crap, and has nothing to do with any of the threads you've attached it to.

Please stop.
 

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Ifn dat guy dont stop talkn bout wags, Iz iza gonna turn Tater, Lucy and Blu aloos on him and he will need more den a wag to help him. Ima tinkin he mustz be sick on da haid.
 

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CBPM is also a welcomed ingredient in foods I feed my dogs. We used to raise chickens and when the dogs "got" one, they ate everything including the beaks and feet...and left the feathers. They were one bunch of healthy dogs! We stopped raising chickens for obvious reasons :)
 

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Some of what they say in this article is correct and other things, not so much so. Remember this is promotional material from a dog food company. It is not scientific research. They want to leave you with the impression that carnivores in the wild live almost exclusively on the by-products of their prey. In fact, by-products make up a small part of the carcass. Muscle meat is by far the most prevelant part of a wild carnivores diet. Yes, by-products are a part of the diet but only something like 10% to 15% of the diet. Most carnivores will not eat intestines or intestinal contents which is the greatest bulk of by-products.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Quote from another article titled "How to Choose..."

The nutritional significance of by-products can be verified by the following observation. There is a pond on the property of the Abady testing facilities which is visited by wild geese and ducks. There are also a number of resident foxes on the property that don’t mind helping themselves to a duck or goose dinner from time to time. (Foxes are close relatives of dogs). The foxes eat only the head, feet, and internal organs including the intestines (today they are called by-products). They don’t touch the muscle meat presumably because the feathers are attached and are indigestible. Luckily for them that they don’t read the WDJ and discover that they should not be eating such stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Do your research somewhere other than promotional hype from a dog food company and you will get significantly different information.
The significantly different information RFD is talking about is the promotion of omnivore nutrition. I wouldn't believe in any of that stuff. Abady research, Abady science is the best in the market place.

Abady quotes:

Abady products center around protein adequacy. They are the only products in which the animal protein content ranges in the 80 to 90 percentiles. In addition, in Abady products the entire ration is focused on protecting the protein so that it can be used effectively by the body. Other brands offer very little quality animal protein regardless of how the ingredients are listed on the label. They offer mostly grain protein, gluten, which has a Biological Value of zero and has potentially serious long term side effects.
The level of carbohydrates in Abady is moderated and the level of fibrous material included in Abady is so miniscule that it will not interfere with nutrient digestion and availability. The opposite is true of all other feeds in the marketplace. There are other foods on the market which include vegetables, potatoes, and fruit. These products are not species-appropriate and many of these substitutes for grain (like potatoes) do not offer any advantages over grain. Potatoes, peas, beans, and garlic contain saponins.
 

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I can getz cekin backs purdy cheap - iz day by products? Tater, Lucy and Mutt likes ta rade da chekin coop nest door,
 

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The significantly different information RFD is talking about is the promotion of omnivore nutrition. I wouldn't believe in any of that stuff. Abady research, Abady science is the best in the market place.
The promotion of ANY dog food including Abady. Abady research is not science, it is promotional material. If you read proper research you will see that carnivores do not eat "by-products" to the exclusion of muscle meat or bones. They eat basically the whole carcass, usually leaving the intestines and stomach contents.

Proper research will show you that the goose story is a bunch of crap. I know several raw feeders who feed their dogs whole chickens, feathers included. The dogs pick off most of the feathers and then eat the rest of the chicken including muscle meat. My own cats will catch birds, pick off most of the feathers and eat the bird, not JUST the "by-products". Again, by-products make up about 10% to 15% of the carnivore's diet.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Proper research will show you that the goose story is a bunch of crap.
My own independent research:

I got my dog and went after a Pheasant I knew about the day before. Several had saw this bird head off in a direction, but it was getting late and nobody felt like hunting that bird.

The next morning I decided to go after that bird, so Zoey and I headed off in that last seen direction. It is a wooded area, bordering St. Forest land. We walk about 10 minutes in and Zoe starts to get hot, something definitely in the area. Not to far ahead she locks up in a solid point. We have a bird straight ahead no doubt. She breaks off her point, weak scent. I keep looking and a finally spot the bird on the ground dead. The head...gone, the feet gone, and the stomach cavity and guts eaten out. The rest of the bird all there, feathers and all, no breast meat or leg meat touched. Plenty of Fox in the area, close relative of the dog.

From my own experience, Abady's goose story is spot on, and they are the one company out there hitting you with the truth!


another great promotional quote...

Because they are not consumed by people their cost is relatively low and can be used abundantly in rations while keeping the cost of the food moderate and the quality high. Intelligent dog food producers (like Abady) recognize this and take full advantage of it. In fact, it is impossible to make a dog or cat food today that contains enough quality animal protein without the liberal inclusion of by-products.
 

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another great promotional quote...
Because they are not consumed by people their cost is relatively low and can be used abundantly in rations while keeping the cost of the food moderate and the quality high. Intelligent dog food producers (like Abady) recognize this and take full advantage of it. In fact, it is impossible to make a dog or cat food today that contains enough quality animal protein without the liberal inclusion of by-products.
Yeah, that statement is partially true. The big reason for inclusion of by-products in dog food is because it is so very very cheap. The same reason that grains are in dog food. But ... I'm not talking about dog food. I don't feed my dogs "dog food". I'm talking about real food that is eaten in the wild.

Foxes are not dogs. Dogs ARE gray wolves. I suggest you read some research by David Mech. Particuarly his book Wolves: Behavior, Ecology and Conservation (2003):

"To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system."
-p124

BTW: I doubt a wolf would ever run across a chicken in the wild. [smile]
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yeah, that statement is partially true. The big reason for inclusion of by-products in dog food is because it is so very very cheap. The same reason that grains are in dog food.
"Intelligent dog food producers (like Abady) recognize this and take full advantage of it."

By-Products (internal organs) play a central role in the feeding of carnivores, as do muscle meat, fat and bone.
Poultry by-products meal is an economical and nutritious source of high quality animal protein.
It is composed of lungs, heads, gizzards, necks, feet, intestines (without their contents) and other clean parts of the carcass.
Nutritionally it is equal to superior to the ingredients discussed earlier and it costs many multiples less.
Abady


RFD stated grains and by-products are in dog foods for the same reason. Don't be misguided here or fooled into believing grains are just as good as by-products because of costs (cheap). This is not true. By-products have the nutritional equivalent to that of meat muscle while grain protein has a biological value of zero to the dog.
 

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By-products have the nutritional equivalent to that of meat muscle while grain protein has a biological value of zero to the dog.
I didn't say any different. I was just talking about price. Any way you look at it, chicken by-product meal is still highly processed refuse from human food processors. It is garbage that would ordinarilly be thrown away if not for the dog food companies.
 

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Well, I have to put my two cents worth in, talking about these things made me remember back to when I was pretty young, 11-13,:eek: my dad was quite a hunter, large animal mostly and he went to Alaska on a Caribou hunting trip. He had flown back a puppy he bought up there from some natives. Chimo, was 3/4 malmute and 1/4 wolf, she really did great for the longest time , my dad would take her to work with him everyday. When those days became fewer, she reverted to her nature and started killing ducks and chickens, all I know is that their intestines would be laying every where and she hadn't touched them, but she ate most of the rest.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I didn't say any different. I was just talking about price. Any way you look at it, chicken by-product meal is still highly processed refuse from human food processors. It is garbage that would ordinarilly be thrown away if not for the dog food companies.
I'm glad you said 'human food processors', and yes therefore human grade quality as well. Keep in mind, we Americans are way out numbered compared to those who eat (mostly Asian folks) chicken by-products. You won't catch too many Asians turning there nose up and heads and feet...all human grade quality from those human food processors!
 
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