[claybuster]

This Granular is not listed on the Abady Website. BASIC falls in between "classic" and "Formula for Maintenance and Stress", in the order of Granulars. This would be 3rd from the bottom of the list.

Note the kicker ingredient which takes it a notch up, Chicken Meal (#9).

(links removed)

This formula is actually cheaper in cost than the next one up (maintenance and stress), yet higher in cals. M&S is right around 800 I think, and this takes it up to around 875. M&S starts off with chicken meal, and gives you CBPM further down the line, opposite of BASIC. I think they just bump the Chicken Meal up to #1 at the next level strictly for marketing purposes.
This box of feed cost me $63.49 plus tax. Out the door for 67 and change.
It will last me every bit of 3 months, and despite being 5-lbs lighter than a box of "classic", it lasts the same amount of time because of the bump in strength. These also come in 48-lb boxes.

 

[ChattyCathy]

Claybuster I'm a little confused.... According to how I understand your post, this is what you feed your dog who is a very active hunting dog?! Why would you want to feed your dog a kibble that starts w/a by product, white rice, another by product and then lard? Why wouldn't you want a product that starts out w/a protein such as, I don't know, turkey, beef, etc? These foods are about the same price and have more protein for your very active dog.

 

[claybuster]

These foods are about the same price and have more protein for your very active dog.

They do? I never knew that, thank you Cathy! What type of proteins are you talking about...animal source proteins? Are you referring to those foods with a ton of plant proteins, the ones that say they are 42% protein? With all that protein, are they getting anywhere close to 875 cals per cup?

 

[claybuster]

Why would you want to feed your dog a kibble that starts w/a by product...

Cathy, BASIC Maintenance IS NOT a kibble type food.

 

[RawFedDogs]

Cathy, BASIC Maintenance IS NOT a kibble type food.

In so far as its a cooked mishmash of garbage from human food processing plants mixed with numerous chemicals, it pretty much is. :smile:

 

[EnglishBullTerriers]

I like the part where they explain the ingredients that they put in their food. I was taught growing up that, 'if you have to expain yourself, then there is a good chance you are wrong!'
RFD, This is NOT a kibble... This is a 'high quality feed for the natural canine in every dog!!' Some don't appreciate it when their food is attacked and they feel like they are not feeding the best!

Good post, I will refer to it when I want to know what else there is on the market besides raw meat! Thanks!!

 

[PeanutsMommy]

In so far as its a cooked mishmash of garbage from human food processing plants mixed with numerous chemicals, it pretty much is. :smile:

i agree it sounds very unhealthy

 

[Doc]

"Read" into it whatever you want. Dogs eat it, dogs like it, dogs live a long time on it. No recalls on these products that I recall. Don't shoot me, heck, I have even fed Pedigree to a dog in the past!

"Reading things through a filtered lens blocks all possibility of dialoge and perspective transformation" doc

 

[PeanutsMommy]

some dogs like eating poo too.

to me reading what was on those pictures it doesnt sound very good. Thats my opinion and for me I would stay far away from it but hey I am not feeding your dogs so hey feed what you want I only worry about my own dog and his health and well being. I AM NOT SAYING YOUR DOGS ARE NOT HEALTHY AND HAPPY I AM SURE THEY ARE.

 

[ChattyCathy]

They do? I never knew that, thank you Cathy! What type of proteins are you talking about...animal source proteins? Are you referring to those foods with a ton of plant proteins, the ones that say they are 42% protein? With all that protein, are they getting anywhere close to 875 cals per cup?

Claybuster I am NOT attacking your dog's food by any means as I'm still learning the differences between foods and what is good/bad for my animals. From reading many posts it is my understanding that people would want to feed their dog a high protein dog food and I guess 42% protein would be one of them. As far as the calories, I don't know how many calories there are but you can get calories from junk as well as from proteins. I'm just trying to get clarification for myself, not attacking your foods. I know how much you like Abady and after reading there isn't much protein in the first few ingredients, I was just wondering why it is so good. Like I said I only know from reading the posts here.

I'm not trying to be condescending or sarcastic towards you or attacking what you feed your dog by any means.... If you got the wrong impression, I'm sorry... I'm just curious that's all. I'm just trying to learn the differences among all the options and Abady is one I'm trying to understand.

And, if it's not a kibble-type food what category is it???? What's the difference between feed and kibble?

I'm just asking for some clarification so I can understand why it's so good.

I'm sure there are those who would attack my dog's food as I've had to change to a less quality brand than I was using before as the protein content was too high for my dogs as they are basically "couch potatoes."

 

[rannmiller]

It's a granular kibble, it looks like a powder almost and you can mix it with water to make it more... mushy? I guess.

As far as the ingredients go, your first thought as far as what you've learned and been told is that they are very strange and unique to this brand alone (I've never seen another brand with ingredients like this).

But think about this: the by-products are an animal-based protein source, and it is argued that it is just as nutrient-rich as and "meal" form of food, but less pricey.

Next you have white rice. It's a grain, it sucks, but as we've all learned, carbs are necessary to hold kibble together. But it's supposedly less allergenic and doesn't expand as much in the colon, so that's good.

Next Manhadden fish meal, that's a good animal-based protein source, it's also a good source of DHA (brain food).

Then you have Lard, pretend it says "chicken fat" and what's the difference between this type of animal-based fat and that one that is in most dog foods?

Then you have sunflower oil, which can be good for the skin and coat if you aren't feeding a raw diet you need things like this to keep it healthy.

Beef fat, again an animal-based fat, great for hunting dogs to get energy from.

Beef and bone meal, which I believe is a good source of calcium and animal-based protein.

Beef liver, great animal based protein source.

Whole eggs, great animal based protein source.

Flaxseed oil, beef fat, manhadden fish fat, then vitamins and minerals.

Now that it's been explained, does it still sound so bad?

 

[ChattyCathy]

It's a granular kibble, it looks like a powder almost and you can mix it with water to make it more... mushy? I guess.

As far as the ingredients go, your first thought as far as what you've learned and been told is that they are very strange and unique to this brand alone (I've never seen another brand with ingredients like this).

But think about this: the by-products are an animal-based protein source, and it is argued that it is just as nutrient-rich as and "meal" form of food, but less pricey.

Next you have white rice. It's a grain, it sucks, but as we've all learned, carbs are necessary to hold kibble together. But it's supposedly less allergenic and doesn't expand as much in the colon, so that's good.

Next Manhadden fish meal, that's a good animal-based protein source, it's also a good source of DHA (brain food).

Then you have Lard, pretend it says "chicken fat" and what's the difference between this type of animal-based fat and that one that is in most dog foods?

Then you have sunflower oil, which can be good for the skin and coat if you aren't feeding a raw diet you need things like this to keep it healthy.

Beef fat, again an animal-based fat, great for hunting dogs to get energy from.

Beef and bone meal, which I believe is a good source of calcium and animal-based protein.

Beef liver, great animal based protein source.

Whole eggs, great animal based protein source.

Flaxseed oil, beef fat, manhadden fish fat, then vitamins and minerals.

Now that it's been explained, does it still sound so bad?

NO. Thank you for the explanation... so why are so many against it?! (Looks like I still have a lot to learn.:redface

 

[rannmiller]

Well IMO it's still better for dogs to get muscle meat as the bulk of their diet, but as far as diet goes, it seems to have the same nutritional benefits as far as the guaranteed analysis is concerned (Claybuster if you'd like to give us that link again, I think it'd be helpful).

I think by-products get a bad rap because of magazines like WDJ, they just don't get a chance. I think more unbiased research and articles need to be done on it, personally, as is often the case :smile:

 

[claybuster]

Does this look like a kibble?

RFD for his is own reasons (probably aesthetic appeal clouding good rational thinking), would like you to believe it is nothing more than cancerous slop scraped off the floor after chicken segregation takes place on the conveyor belt. Good chickens to the right, bad chickens to the left and all that stuff. I’m telling you don’t fall for you are being steered in the wrong direction. For the person that doesn’t feed raw, your only other choices are commercial omnivore nutrition. There is no other company out there avoiding certain ingredients for good reason (allergies). When I say avoiding ingredients, don’t be fooled with grain-free. Look at the ingredients. Grain fiber and protein is replaced with plant fiber and protein, you’ve made no progress. What do you see when you look further down the line at those Abady ingredients? Miss Miller showing some class and intelligence, pointed out what you see very effectively down the line. Ingredients like eggs, liver (with the fat left on), fish fat, meat and bone meals, etc. This is how this product delivers the animal source proteins in abundance along with those starters up front (CBPM, fish meal, beef fat).

 

[rannmiller]

Yeah, I think the ingredients just look so different at first it freaks people out (I know it freaked me out a bit at first, now I'm always looking for "by-products" to incorporate into my dog's diet and realized I already do include several items that would count as such). Their immediate reaction is to think it's bad because WDJ says so, as do many of the other dog foods like Wellness, Blue Buffalo, Nutro (but no one cares what they say), Orijen, etc.

You have to admit, it takes a bit of digging (or reading the thread on it on this forum) to find anything positive or less biased about by products.

So changing the subject a bit, what is the point of the granular form? Is it supposed to be easier on the teeth or easier to digest or what? Just curious as to what the benefits of granular are as opposed to kibble.

 

[ChattyCathy]

Does this look like a kibble?

RFD for his is own reasons (probably aesthetic appeal clouding good rational thinking), would like you to believe it is nothing more than cancerous slop scraped off the floor after chicken segregation takes place on the conveyor belt. Good chickens to the right, bad chickens to the left and all that stuff. I’m telling you don’t fall for you are being steered in the wrong direction. For the person that doesn’t feed raw, your only other choices are commercial omnivore nutrition. There is no other company out there avoiding certain ingredients for good reason (allergies). When I say avoiding ingredients, don’t be fooled with grain-free. Look at the ingredients. Grain fiber and protein is replaced with plant fiber and protein, you’ve made no progress. What do you see when you look further down the line at those Abady ingredients? Miss Miller showing some class and intelligence, pointed out what you see very effectively down the line. Ingredients like eggs, liver (with the fat left on), fish fat, meat and bone meals, etc. This is how this product delivers the animal source proteins in abundance along with those starters up front (CBPM, fish meal, beef fat).

I stand corrected! :redface: I just thought some fats and by-products as the first ingredient or so was a no, no.

Thanks for the picture. And, no... it doesn't look like kibble at all.

 

[claybuster]

So changing the subject a bit, what is the point of the granular form? Is it supposed to be easier on the teeth or easier to digest or what? Just curious as to what the benefits of granular are as opposed to kibble.

Good question, so I dug up some Abady quotes to help explain this:

Another shortcoming of the kibbling process – plaque formation

Plaque is a big issue in dogs; it causes gum disease and tooth loss. The chewing of hard kibble is touted as being both the prevention and cure. Doctoral theses have been written on the benefits of kibble in the cleaning of teeth in support of industry propaganda. The facts, however, indicate that the opposite is true, that chewing kibble is the cause of plaque in dogs. Chewing kibble causes particles of food to accumulate in the crevices around the teeth. Although some companies take the approach that rough fibrous food can help clean teeth, it is absolute nonsense. Fibrous food is not appropriate to the feeding of carnivores, it is for herbivores (ruminants). Additionally, there is no way to clean teeth with food. In Nature, the texture of the food (internal organs, meat, fat, etc...) is slippery and does not leave residue. It is ripped into pieces, pulled apart and swallowed, not chewed. Prevention is the only way of keeping teeth clean.

Kibble on the other hand is high in carbohydrates, the foundation of plaque formation. Clearly chewing kibble is the primary cause of plaque accumulation. Only the Abady Company has successfully addressed these two critically important issues by creating a special process that does not penalize nutrition while improving energy production.

In addition this special food has a granular texture that does not require it be chewed. This prevents plaque from forming, just as in Nature, thereby maintaining cleaner teeth. If one wishes the dog to exercise its jaws, a marrow bone or pull toy should fit the bill, not the food.

 

[EnglishBullTerriers]

"Read" into it whatever you want. Dogs eat it, dogs like it, dogs live a long time on it. No recalls on these products that I recall. Don't shoot me, heck, I have even fed Pedigree to a dog in the past!

"Reading things through a filtered lens blocks all possibility of dialoge and perspective transformation" doc

FYI, Dogs eat their own poo also. See 'training' setion!

 

[RawFedDogs]

RFD for his is own reasons (probably aesthetic appeal clouding good rational thinking), would like you to believe it is nothing more than cancerous slop scraped off the floor after chicken segregation takes place on the conveyor belt.

Aesthetic appeal has nothing to do with feeding dogs. I have no problem with feeding them any part of an animal. BUT ... Yes, those cancerous chickens and chickens that have fallen on the floor and any other chickens that have lost their "human grade" status are contained in chicken meal and chicken by-product meal. There is no chicken that is in too gross a condition to be put in these meals. Yes, there are chicken parts that came from healthy chickens in the meals and probably most of the volume of the chicken meal comes from healthy chickens but the other stuff is in there also.

Good chickens to the right, bad chickens to the left and all that stuff. I’m telling you don’t fall for you are being steered in the wrong direction.

Like it or not, thats exactly how it's done. Stuff going to the left goes in dogfood. Stuff going to the right goes to grocery stores.

For the person that doesn’t feed raw, your only other choices are commercial omnivore nutrition. There is no other company out there avoiding certain ingredients for good reason (allergies). When I say avoiding ingredients, don’t be fooled with grain-free. Look at the ingredients. Grain fiber and protein is replaced with plant fiber and protein, you’ve made no progress.

You also make no progress when rice is included in the formula. That alone makes it an omnivore food.

What do you see when you look further down the line at those Abady ingredients? Miss Miller showing some class and intelligence, pointed out what you see very effectively down the line. Ingredients like eggs, liver (with the fat left on), fish fat, meat and bone meals, etc. This is how this product delivers the animal source proteins in abundance along with those starters up front (CBPM, fish meal, beef fat).

You are correct, however you conveniently left out all the chemicals that have been added. Seems like there are ingredients like sunflower oil, dicalcium phosphate, potasium chloride, ferrous sulfate, di-alpha tocopheryl acetate, magnesium oxide, niacinamide, Inosidol, d-calcium pantothenate, L-carnitine, ergocalciferol, mangenise sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite, cuprite oxide, pyrodoxine hydrochloride, cobalt chloride, sodium selenite, potasium iodide, cyanocoblamin concentrate.

Plaque is a big issue in dogs; it causes gum disease and tooth loss. ....

What Abady says about plaque is correct as far as kibble goes. However, ripping and tearing meat and dragging it through their teeth as well as eating bone definately beyond the shadow of a doubt DO clean plaque off teeth very effeciently. It is one of the first things very aparent to new raw feeders. Its the first thing they mention.

I don't see anything it a powder food to help in that area.

 

[rannmiller]

Aesthetic appeal has nothing to do with feeding dogs. I have no problem with feeding them any part of an animal. BUT ... Yes, those cancerous chickens and chickens that have fallen on the floor and any other chickens that have lost their "human grade" status are contained in chicken meal and chicken by-product meal. There is no chicken that is in too gross a condition to be put in these meals. Yes, there are chicken parts that came from healthy chickens in the meals and probably most of the volume of the chicken meal comes from healthy chickens but the other stuff is in there also.

Like it or not, thats exactly how it's done. Stuff going to the left goes in dogfood. Stuff going to the right goes to grocery stores.

Well yeah and that's the problem with most/all dog foods.

You also make no progress when rice is included in the formula. That alone makes it an omnivore food.

Indeed, but you have to keep in mind it has less carbs added to it than most foods. Most of them have rice, potatoes, rye, wheat, sweet potatoes, blueberries, apples, carrots, etc. At least this one only has rice, making it an omnivore food. Like I said, it still sucks as an ingredient for a carnivore.

You are correct, however you conveniently left out all the chemicals that have been added. Seems like there are ingredients like sunflower oil, dicalcium phosphate, potasium chloride, ferrous sulfate, di-alpha tocopheryl acetate, magnesium oxide, niacinamide, Inosidol, d-calcium pantothenate, L-carnitine, ergocalciferol, mangenise sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite, cuprite oxide, pyrodoxine hydrochloride, cobalt chloride, sodium selenite, potasium iodide, cyanocoblamin concentrate.

Yeah, but about 99% of commercial dog foods have all this crap added to it as well, so we can't target just Abady for it. Just goes to show you have to add more stuff to a diet that isn't in it's natural form in order to keep dogs alive and well on it.

What Abady says about plaque is correct as far as kibble goes. However, ripping and tearing meat and dragging it through their teeth as well as eating bone definately beyond the shadow of a doubt DO clean plaque off teeth very effeciently. It is one of the first things very aparent to new raw feeders. Its the first thing they mention.

I don't see anything it a powder food to help in that area.

It's more preventative. It doesn't contribute to the problem in the first place like kibble does, hence, they say give your dog something to chew on to keep their teeth clean. I think it's like how we could go our lives without eating carbs and sugar and sure we wouldn't have as much plaque on our teeth, but if we don't brush them on a regular basis, they're bound to rot out eventually.