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Discussion Starter #1
I'm new and just reading some of the threads and peoples opinions and ways that people feed their dogs. What I am interested to know is if any of you have seen actual scientific studies on these or your just internet surfing and seeing what other people have to say? Not accusing anyone, I was just curious.
 

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I don't need scientific studies to tell me that the natural diet for my dog works wonders. Because is does. I the proof I see is the health of my dogs and cats.

Most of the "scientific studies" or "clinical trials" are all backed by big business. That is how they are funded. They are based completely on the notion of how they can produce the CHEAPEST food that will sustain a dog, or fix some kind of ailment that was probably due to poor/inadequate nutrition anyway.

Most studies are also trying to tell me that my dog is an omnivore and should be eating grains or other carb sources. Which in and of itself is a 100% false statement. End of story.

The reason why there is no clinical trials behind raw diets? Because there is no money in it. It takes big bucks to fund clinical trials because they are usually very in depth and take a long time to complete. And you would most likely be appalled at the regulations and requirements for these "clinical" trials anyways because they are in no way sufficient to produce accurate, life long results. I know that I am appalled at them. No one wants to fund a study that they wont make money off of. Because a raw diet is completely self sustaining...meaning we don't buy any certain brand or type of food. We get our food supplies from all over and from private sources.

Not to mention the decreased business that vet practices would see from lack of nutrition based illnesses that would be noticed if everyone was feeding raw.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I was just interested in knowing because I get crap all the time for what food I feed my dog b/c you won't find it in a pet store. I feel like I have seen my pets do well on it. I don't take much stock in what I read off the internet b/c my honest opinion is you never know who is behind writing it. But thanks for the comment. I appreciate your honesty.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Lifes Abundance. Yeah people give me crap on how its sold and where it stands on the How Great Is My Dog Food List. But all I know is that all my animals do great on it, and a lot of my clients use it as well and seem to really like the results. the one thing I love is that I can talk to the vet that formulates it anytime that I want. And if she thinks her food might not be the best option she doesn't have a problem telling you. I think the thing I like the most is the freshness factor of the food. And it's a small company and been around for about 10 years. I'm sure I'll get crap for even writing this
 

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On slightly the same topic...has anyone on here had blood work done for any reason since being on PMR or anyother diet change that's displayed their health? That might help dogtrainer1507 out. :smile:
 

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come again???
lol...I'm asking if anyone has any blood work results showing that the diet they've chosen for their dog has either improved their health (obviously they would need blood work from before the diet change as well) or at least showing that their dog is healthy now.
 

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I have had bloodwork done on all four of our dogs and they all have perfect values, its been about a year for most of it but I'm confident that they are still doing well. Their kidney and protein levels were always a bit high, not dangerously high but just elevated. That is because the bloodwork panels range values are geared towards kibble fed dogs, not raw fed dogs. Will probably recheck values again soon.
 

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Dog are carnivores.
I feel them as such.


It's not complicated, nor does it require scientific studies to back it up. I wouldn't feed a rabbit meat, so why would i feed a dog salad?





ps. I've seen Life's Abundance sit on shelves for months and months. And yes, it can be found in pet stores, because apparently pet stores qualify to be distributors, so all their "we ship straight to the customer" crap is bogus. Just sayin'
 

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Lifes Abundance. Yeah people give me crap on how its sold and where it stands on the How Great Is My Dog Food List. But all I know is that all my animals do great on it, and a lot of my clients use it as well and seem to really like the results. the one thing I love is that I can talk to the vet that formulates it anytime that I want. And if she thinks her food might not be the best option she doesn't have a problem telling you. I think the thing I like the most is the freshness factor of the food. And it's a small company and been around for about 10 years. I'm sure I'll get crap for even writing this
I say that if you're comfortable with the results, then use what you want. You have the right to feed what you feel is best...hopefully with a little research behind it.

Being a dog trainer myself I hear all sorts of stories and testimonials and complaints. I try to educate everyone as best as I can putting my own opinions and bias aside. I, myself feel that dogs should get as much meat as possible and when asked about my own opinion I will state such. But as I stated before...if you're pleased with your dog's condition then by all means continue what you're doing. Just please don't close out other possibilities as well. :smile:
 

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LOL, I don't need any blood work work done to know my dog is heathy. I just ask all the other dogs at the dog park who he terrorizes. I feed Orijen and California Natural and I am in the process of replacing CN with TOTW Wetlands.
Your dog food seems a little grain heavy (good grain) and I really don't like seeing Dried Beet Pulp. Their were some studies done at Purdue Universty about chicken fat in the first 5 Ingedients and it wasn't good. I can't recall what their studies found but I recall it was not good. Back to the game

INGREDIENTS:
Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Dried Beet Pulp, Brewers Dried Yeast, Flaxseed Meal, Natural Flavors, Dried Egg Product, Catfish Meal, Potassium Chloride, Salt, L-Lysine, Canola Oil, DL-Methionine, Calcium Carbonate, Monosodium Phosphate, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Blueberries, Dried Broccoli, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Pomegranate Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Inositol, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Citric Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
And I'm a dog trainer also and I try to stay bias as well. I personally think that if you look hard enough you will find something wrong with every food and every method of feeding. And most of the studies on beet pulp by the way were on horses. But again I do appreciate everyone's reply. I feel what it comes down to is how your feel about what your feeding and how your animals do on it. There is one thing I find interesting with the whole no grains thing though. So many people say they base that feeding on the fact that wolves eat only meat and that they never eat grains. But when you think about it, the prey that they catch and eat, a lot of them do eat grains and if a wolf will eat the whole animal, then whatever is in that animals system and organs would have those grains in them. I don't know just my thought on that whole subject. And I'm sure someone will jump on me for that comment too.
 

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So many people say they base that feeding on the fact that wolves eat only meat and that they never eat grains. But when you think about it, the prey that they catch and eat, a lot of them do eat grains and if a wolf will eat the whole animal, then whatever is in that animals system and organs would have those grains in them. I don't know just my thought on that whole subject. And I'm sure someone will jump on me for that comment too.
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/pictures/2200-raw-feeding-its-finest-caution-graphic-photos.html
 

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Its been shown in many different studies done on wolves that they do not eat the stomach contents of their larger prey items, like in the pictures above. They do sometimes eat the stomach contents of smaller prey items when they eat the entire carcass. I personally don't think that amount of stomach content can be part of the nutrient profile of a wolf, or a dog, because it constitutes such a negligible amount in the grand scheme of things. So in other words I don't think that this principle is enough to justify feeding a dog a diet that contains more carbs/grains than it does meat source.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm glad everyone has their opinion. Honestly though I kind of feel like this forum is just all about people using raw diets trying to get others to convert.Not what I expected.. Especially in the dry and canned dog food section. But thanks for the feedback. Sorry I even asked a question
 

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Wow...I totally did not notice that this thread was in the kibble forum. I wouldn't have mentioned raw in the slightest bit if I had known, because its just an unspoken rule that raw isn't discussed in the kibble forum out of respect. But I will say that the question was kind of a loaded one, in that it was a general question about all diets out there, not just kibble. If it were me I would have posted this topic in the General Discussion forum or Dog Food Ingredients forum or have reworded the question to be specifically just about kibble. I am tempted to move this thread to a more appropriate area because of the question asked... :confused:

Don't be sorry that you asked a question at all. You don't have to like what other people say, or even pay attention to what we say. We are all entitled to our own opinions and since you asked a generalized question you got specific answers from all different people. I will say that when you post a question asking about clinical trials and such it usually is in context and referenced to raw diets, because there is absolutely no trials done on them. And since that is one of the main reasons why people are opposed to raw, we have kinda gotten used to jumping to the defense on what we believe.
 

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I'm glad everyone has their opinion. Honestly though I kind of feel like this forum is just all about people using raw diets trying to get others to convert.Not what I expected.. Especially in the dry and canned dog food section. But thanks for the feedback. Sorry I even asked a question
Sorry if it seems that way, I think we're all just so pleased with the results we have had from making the conversion to raw, we are excited to share the info.

Anyway, back to kibble.
If your dogs do well on that particular brand of kibble, I say stick with it and sod what others think!
Why fix it if it isn't broke?

The reason I switched from Orijen to raw was simply because one of my dogs had HORRID teeth no matter what I was feeding him. I could have cleaned his teeth every 3 months. :( I really LIKED Orijen and the results I had from it...aside from the teeth issue. My 10 month old pup was starting to get tartar, but I think with both of my dogs it just is what it is. We see dogs at our practice with lovely teeth on kibble of all kinds, so again, is say use what is good for you and your dog.
 

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It is true...when you're used to being constantly questioned and interrogated you start to assume that every question is that way. :frown:

Don't be sorry though...some people just have strong beliefs. lol
 
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