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If you do, what do you give them? I was thinking of canned salmon, liver and chicken hearts for ours.
 

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If you do, what do you give them? I was thinking of canned salmon, liver and chicken hearts for ours.
My cats eat mostly chicken drumsticks. They get beef heart about once a week, meat cut off of pork roasts about once a week, and canned salmon once a week.

They also catch a BUNCH of stuff outside to eat. Sometimes they will miss a day and not eat anything. I figure they just had a good outside day that day and don't worry about it. I think they can catch food outside anytime they want to. They are both real good hunters. I am finding partial carcasses laying around the yard a lot.

I don't see any bone in the stuff you plan to feed except a little in the canned salmon. Chicken drumsticks are pretty cheap. They love to eat chicken wings but those cost a lot more than drumsticks.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My cats eat mostly chicken drumsticks. They get beef heart about once a week, meat cut off of pork roasts about once a week, and canned salmon once a week.

They also catch a BUNCH of stuff outside to eat. Sometimes they will miss a day and not eat anything. I figure they just had a good outside day that day and don't worry about it. I think they can catch food outside anytime they want to. They are both real good hunters. I am finding partial carcasses laying around the yard a lot.

I don't see any bone in the stuff you plan to feed except a little in the canned salmon. Chicken drumsticks are pretty cheap. They love to eat chicken wings but those cost a lot more than drumsticks.
Yea, ours catch a lot outside to eat also. I gave ours, Psyco a wing or two and he seemed to like them but he left a lot of the bone. It was the "bigger" part of the bone only, so I guess he ate the smaller bones. I will add something like that with more bone to his meals.
 

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Glad you asked this question as I'm just in the process of transitioning my new 2 yo cat over to raw, so I'm learning everything I can. I must say that I'm thrilled right now as Windy ate her first piece of chicken liver last night along with most of a drumstick.
I have been feeding her tiny pieces of chicken as she seemed to have trouble learning how to chew them, but it looks like she's now worked that out. I was giving her a lot of tuna, but then read that tuna isn't good for them except in small quantities.
I haven't let her outside yet without her harness, I'm still weighing up the pro's and con's so unfortnately she isn't getting any fresh kill which sucks for her. So, I'm on my way out to Walmart right now to look for other meats, like quails, turkey and fish.
One thing I have found is that she seems to be pretty particular in her likes and dislikes - I've wasted a lot of money on various kibbles and tinned food, the little bugger.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It took Psyco a little bit to get the hang of raw as well. He's got it now so all I have to do is get him a menue of sorts together for him. His absolute favorite of all foods so far is liver.
 

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We get small whole frozen fish from out local Asian market for $1.50 per pound af they just get a bit of what the dogs are eating.
 

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I've looked into Asian markets but there aren't any round us here, so I'm going to chuck a line in the canel out the back here and see what decides to bite.
Am looking into feeder mice though, there are several places on-line that sell them they are quite expensive, but we'll keep looking and see what happens.
And, I really should learn to just keep my mouth shut. Windy wouldn't eat any raw chicken or liver tonight. Why, why why??
But, on the other hand, she did walk (on her leash) a whole block this evening, so I'm really pleased but brassed off, all at the same time.
 

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I'm glad this thread is here, actually.

When we brought Theus home, he showed no interest in the pork or chicken I tossed in front of him, and I thought that he probably wouldn't eat it, so I shouldn't even try. Well, that night passed, and I realized that he's VERY obsessive about food, to the point where if I have ANYTHING, including things you would think absolutely ridiculous for a cat to like (like lettuce and strawberries!), he LOVES. Anyways, after a few days, I would put the dogs' food in their crates with them outside, and I noticed that he literally tries to STEAL their food! So I'm thinking of trying raw out on him.

Feeder mice might be an interesting option. I wonder what it would be like to try and raise up some mice of my own to alleviate costs? Hmmm...And also catching some fish in the stream. haha. It's actually not legal here in Nevada without a license, but what nobody knows won't kill them! XP
 

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Yeah, I'm glad too. As I'm going through this I've got all sorts of stupid questions that make me feel like a bit of an idiot.

I wish my cat was like yours, willing to eat all sorts of stuff. Sometimes I wonder if its worth it, all this pampering and catering to the little sxxt, but when I read about the huge % of cats that seem to get diabetes and kidney problems then I know I have to try something.

Raising mice woud be a great idea if you could do it. There is no way in hell my lord here would let me do that - it's even going to be fun hiding frozen mice in the freezer! MY MIL is the clone of Marie on Everyone Loves Raymond, imagine if she found out? She'd come and drag her son out by his hair. The mind boggles.

I had been looking and looking trying to find somewhere within 50 miles that sells those little fish, then I look out at the canal and go duhhhh.

How do feral cats manage in the wild when it comes to that liver problem that can kill cats if they don't eat for a couple of days? If there is not enough food around wouldn't alot of them die in pretty short order?

And, what is it with cats? It's frustrating sometimes.
I caught Windy in the rubbish the other day, going after the chicken package, so if she liked it that much 2 days ago, why on earth is she not eatting it now? She ate the tinest piece this morning after it was heated a touch as I read somewhere that cats like their food at body temp, like a fresh kill - maybe thats the reason. I'd let her starve for a bit as I think she's just trying it on, but I dont want her to get the liver problem. (I've also got her on Orijen kibble, just to make sure she is getting some food in her).

I'm still seriously torn about whether to let the cat roam outside or not.
There are heaps of rats, mice and snakes in the gardens here, she's get fresh meat and exercise her body and her brain, but I just don't know if the risk of her getting hurt is worth it. Could she get lost and not come home? And, as a sidenote, whats your take on cat collars? I've got one with a tag, but the vet was really against it, he said he treats a lot of cats that strangle themselves, even with the breakaway collars.

And, is canned tuna really that terrible for cats? I read to never give any to cats, then some say you can give a little bit, but would a meal every 3 days or so be ok? She won't eat canned salmon, mackeral or sardines.

I saw frozen quail at Walmart yesterday. I didn't buy it because I read that cats can get food poisoning very easily, that their food has to be fresh. Would it be ok if I defrosted the quail, cut it up and re-froze it? It wouldn't make the cat sick?

I'm sorry that I've gone off topic a lot here, but as you can see, all sorts of musings......
 

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You have to be aware of the taurine levels in the food you are feeding them. There is a website that has the taurine levels of the meat. I found it with a google search.

I feed my cat, 2 oz of chicken neck, 4 oz of turkey hearts, 1 oz of sardine per day. You should also switch the meat so they are used to eating different things. Cats will get used to eating certain things and then refuse new stuff. Mine was a chore to switch over to RAW. I had to partially cook it for a couple months before he would eat it.

Please make sure yours does not go without eating. It can cause fatty liver disease, even after only a day or two.

There is also something about calcium/phosphorus levels. I haven't researched any of that so can not tell you what it's about.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
From what I understand, heart is one of the best sources of taurine. I'm not sure how true that is, it's just what I read more than once. I am fixing to start adding heart to Psyco's diet.
 

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Yes, heart is the highest source of taurine! Before I could get turkey hearts I fed beef hearts. I was surprised to find turkey was even higher than beef. The darker the meat, the higher the taurine level.

There was a study done that fed cats raw, ground rabbit. The cats looked great. Poop didn't smell. But then a cat died and they found that there was a taurine deficiency. That scared me enough to check into a taurine test. It runs around $200. But you would have to keep testing regularly to make sure the levels are good. So I found the website with the taurine information to compare what I'm feeding him to the recommended daily amount.

If you grind your food, then you really should add taurine. From what I read, the air hitting the surface of the meat will degrade the taurine content.

Here are the sources I found....

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmb/aal/pdfs/spitze.pdf

Cat Food Ingredients: The 4 Essential Groups - The Daily Cat Brought to You by Iams
“Cats have a higher protein requirement” than dogs or people, says Dr. Joseph Wakshlag, assistant professor of clinical nutrition at the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine. Cats require 2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight each day, compared with 0.8 grams per kilogram in humans and 1.3 grams per kilogram in dogs, he says. High-quality protein sources can include chicken, salmon, egg and other meats, poultry or fish sources.
Protein in meat chart and information
meat-protein chart | Nutrient chart | Vitamins and minerals in common meats and proteins

Meat and meat products in human nutrition ... - Role of meat and meat products in human nutrition

Calculator
raw chicken breast: saturated fat, trans fat, calories, cholesterol, ... - Wolfram|Alpha

Minimum Required Daily Allowance of Taurine Daily

Nutrient Requirements of Cats, Revised Edition, 1986
(Taurine Section starts on page 13)
Nutrient Requirements of Cats, Revised Edition, 1986

400 mg/kg (it's not clearly if this is daily, weekly??)


Recommended Daily Allowances - Feline: Protein
Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies
10mg/kg body weight

Cat Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook

http://books.google.com/books?id=9lGTIbY...p;q&f=false
 

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Cracker's Daily Diet

Weight: 5 kg

Taurine requirements at 20mg/kg body weight = 100 mg taurine daily
Protein requirements at 2 g/kg body weight = 10 g protein daily


1 oz beef heart = 18.48388704 mg Taurine = 8 g Protein
1 oz turkey leg meat= 86.7495312 mg Taurine = 8 g Protein
2 oz chicken neck = 33.1122452 mg Taurine = 8.48 Protein
1 oz canned Salmon = 34.89825912 mg Taurine = 6.79 Protein
Minimal Chicken Liver

173 mg Taurine/day and 31 g Protein.

I feed just a thumbnail size of liver daily.

(I have changed his diet so I really need to redo this but it will give you an idea of what is needed. The beef heart and turkey meat have been replaced with turkey heart.)

Since I"ve started feeding him RAW, his muscle tone is better. He's a himalayan so it's really hard to see but I can feel his muscles under his fur and his belly no longer sags. His teeth have cleaned right up! They are still stained from the...gulp...Science Diet ID food. The cat box does NOT smell at all.

I still wasn't happy with his coat and added the 1 oz of fish (now sardine) and it's made an amazing difference in just a couple of weeks.

From what I read this weekend, extra Taurine processes through the kidneys and flushes out of their system, similar to Vitamin C, so chance of "to much" taurine is nonexistent. If in doubt, add the taurine!
 

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Do you add taurine to the meat for the snacks? Heat, cooking, deplete the taurine and other enzymes. How to you correct that?

And I'm asking because I seriously thought about making "taurine bombs" for Cracker to make sure he had enough taurine.

Also, cats get the majority of their fluids from meat. They do not drink alot and that, in itself, is causing many health problems for them so by feeding them dehydrated meat it's depleting their fluids. Do you rehydrate prior to feeding it to them since you are supplementing their meals with it rather than using it for snacks?

Here is another excellent article on feline nutrition.
Feline Nutrition
 
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