Dog Food Chat banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a seven year old American Eskimo with a few...well a few things that we have been trying to improve upon.

He minds me, yet is extremely protective to the point where I feel like I am isolated as no one can come near me. He went through a training class...and at the end they told me he was untrainable. After I paid. I work fulltime and am in college full time so I don't have enough money to enroll him in any classes anymore, already tried that.

He definatley fear bites, we have to put him out at the vet completley because he doesnt just fear bite, but fear attacks and lunges as well. With others I think its fear biting yet I know he isnt afraid of me and doesn't appreciate when I make him mind, and has bitten me numerous times. Alot of the time it is when he sees another dog (Especially one in the neighborhood that he has tried to attack) and I try to correct him from screaming and growling at the dog with his pinch collar. He doesn't like being corrected, I guess I can kind of associate him with a spoiled child, I know I am guilty of spoiling him and trying to reverse that has been a struggle. He also will not let me touch his butt to brush him or his nails at all. When he attacks me he usually realizes what he is doing after a moment, stops and then tries to kiss me and make me pet him. Basically I think he may be a bit confused.

Basically...any advice would really benifit me, I would add a picture, but am not completley sure how to do so. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,419 Posts
He went through a training class...and at the end they told me he was untrainable. After I paid.
I had a client dog like that 6 or 7 years ago that was also an American Eskimo. She had the same symptoms you have presented here. I'm afraid that I was never able to do any good with this dog at all.

I work fulltime and am in college full time so I don't have enough money to enroll him in any classes anymore, already tried that.
This is not a good situation for any dog but in your case I don't think this is causing the problem. I'm not talking about the money, I'm talking about the time spent with him.

He definatley fear bites, we have to put him out at the vet completley because he doesnt just fear bite, but fear attacks and lunges as well.
Remember I have not seen your dog and diagnosing over the internet is very risky. I don't even like to diagnose over the telephone. Too many times, the problem ends up being something very different than what the owner describes to me. After saying that, and assuming you are accurately describing his problem, I think the dog has a mental problem, probably genetic and I can't offer you any positive advice for him.

He also will not let me touch his butt to brush him or his nails at all. When he attacks me he usually realizes what he is doing after a moment, stops and then tries to kiss me and make me pet him. Basically I think he may be a bit confused.
This is not the behavior of a spoiled dog. It is not a normal behavior from any kind of dog. I think this dog has serious mental problems and I can't give you a lot of hope of fixing it. This is NOT a training problem. It is a behavior problem.

Basically...any advice would really benifit me, I would add a picture, but am not completley sure how to do so.
A picture would not add to describing the dog's problem. I'm sure he's cute but he is also a dangerous dog and I'm concerned someone is going to eventually get hurt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Yeah I have to agree with the above poster. Also, I'm not one to say put a dog down, not by any means, BUT if you have tried training and you cannot afford a behaviorist to see if they can help you, then I hate to say that may be a serious option that you need to consider. At this point, he is extremely dangerous, not only to you, but to others. At the very least IMO you should be muzzling him when you take him anywhere off of your own property for the sake of everyone around you. What if he were to get loose somehow while out on a walk? If he has bit YOU "numerous times" that's a VERY VERY VERY serious situation, one that needs to be dealt with one way or another.

IMO I would HIGHLY recommend you speaking and meeting with a behaviorist to see what they say and to see if they feel they can help you. You also may want to get some bloodwork done through your vet and possibly a neurological exam from a neuro specialist. If this is not an option for you, time wise, financially, whatever then you may need to consider putting him down, as without getting help to fix his problem (if it is fixable), he is extremely dangerous, not only to you, but to the general public as well and that's never a good thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Let me clear a few things up.

I have control over him, meaning I make sure to warn everyone in seeing distance not to go near him. He has never harmed anyone else. I know him well enough to make people aware of him.

He goes to work with me, so he is not here all by himself all day long.

I believe that EVERY dog is trainable and I will never give up on him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Let me clear a few things up.

I have control over him, meaning I make sure to warn everyone in seeing distance not to go near him. He has never harmed anyone else. I know him well enough to make people aware of him.

He goes to work with me, so he is not here all by himself all day long.

I believe that EVERY dog is trainable and I will never give up on him.
I agree that every dog can be trained, HOWEVER you don't know if he has a neurological problem, if something happened to him that changed his mental pattern, basically if he has an unknown medical problem that would only show up in neurological tests and/or brain scans. If ALL medical issues have not been ruled out (which would easily cost thousands as I know MRI's are around $2500), then you cannot say he is definitely trainable when you don't know what the problem is.

And warning someone within seeing distance isn't enough, I'm sorry. If he were to yank the leash out of your hand, get out of your backyard somehow, go out your front door by accident, ANYTHING can happen even to the most careful owners, and that is dangerous. He should not be off of your property unless he is muzzled if he is dangerous like that and he should not be in your backyard unsupervised.

A side note, I had a dog that had a brain tumor that would mentally "snap" at times. He was just unpredictable personality wise, my son was not allowed near him anymore, and when we had to go to the vet, I called ahead of time to make sure they had a room ready so we did not have to spend time in the lobby, they allowed me to keep him in the medical exam room while I paid so we were not in the lobby waiting on that, I had to take him to pet smart to get his nails cut because they were getting SO long he was slipping on my wood floor during seizures, and yes I muzzled him to take him. It wasn't a happy experience as he had been the sweetest dog for the 6 years that we had him, but he had a mental problem, we were making him as happy and comfortable as we could until we had to put him down, but yeah personality changes can come on gradually, and looking back on it I think it was 2-3 years that this tumor was growing SLOWLY causing personality changes that we just took as he was getting older.

So, I don't think any of us are saying this to offend you, but in all reality, you are a human, if a dog wanted to overpower you they probably could, and if he does have a neurological problem that you are unaware of it may be that much more difficult.

If you really want to see about getting him help, skip the trainer and find a certified behaviorist in your area. I would also recommend a neuro exam by a certified nerological vet who specializes in doggie brains. In my area an exam for a neuro doc is around $200 but obviously that will vary depending on where you are.

Again I promise you I don't say this lightly I've dealt with a dog with neuro issues, BUT you are ignoring a HUGE problem if you truly believe you have things under control and can control him. He has bitten you on more than one occasion, that in itself says you do NOT have him under control, not by any stretch of the imagination, and until you are ready to admit that there is a problem that you don't have any idea on how to handle and that he IS dangerous it is going to be hard for anyone to help you. By law in all states that I am aware of, once a dog has bitten a human they are considered to be a "dangerous dog" and are REQUIRED to be muzzled while off their property, the fact that it was the owner that was bit that didn't report it is beyond the point, the point is obviously the legal system recognizes that if it can happen once it will probably happen again and while you do not take proper measures to ensure people's safety (telling them is NOT enough anything can happen), you are endangering others. You never know if a stray dog is going to approach, a small child who is out playing (we all know kids have a tendency to not listen), or whatever the case may be. You need to be responsible and protect innocent people, but also need to admit there is a problem, contact a behaviorist and see if they can help you and if you can save up make an appointment with a neuro specialist and have him evaluated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
He is only aggressive to other people if they touch him or me. I am not trying to say that you are ganging up on me, sorry if he sounds that way. I think his past definatley has something to do with it all.


When I was 13 my dad got me him as a surprise after our other dog had passed at 18. I couldn't have been happier to get another dog...except where he came from. He came from the pet store in the mall, where I would never get a dog from. He was in that small cage for two whole months...I would be pissed off too. Not to mention where he was before he got there, probably a puppy mill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
He is only aggressive to other people if they touch him or me. I am not trying to say that you are ganging up on me, sorry if he sounds that way. I think his past definatley has something to do with it all.


When I was 13 my dad got me him as a surprise after our other dog had passed at 18. I couldn't have been happier to get another dog...except where he came from. He came from the pet store in the mall, where I would never get a dog from. He was in that small cage for two whole months...I would be pissed off too. Not to mention where he was before he got there, probably a puppy mill.
Being in a cage for 2 months at that age should not have turned him into what he is now. Dangerous is dangerous, he should NOT attack someone if they touch you OR him. Like I said, you are not ready to admit there is a SERIOUS potentially dangerous problem, until you are nobody's going to be able to help you because you won't listen to anyone because you don't believe there is a problem. You are making excuses for him and you should not be doing that for one, secondly whatever may have happened years ago CAN be overcome, but again you need to stop being a co-dependent to his problem and until you can do that sorry but nothing can be done.

As I said, a full work up by a neurologist would be a good place to start, if he gets a clean bill of health and it's determined to be behavioral, then contact a behaviorist to come in and help you. You don't have a training problem you have a behavioral problem you need a certified behaviorist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Training to use a muzzle is really easy

Hi,

I would follow the advice to use a muzzle whenever you take him out. If you get a metal basket muzzle with vinyl coating for winter that is big enough for him to pant he won't mind it at all. The way to train him to use it is take it out at home, fill it with some snacks and say to him in a happy voice "snack basket" and smile, smile smile.

Gradually hold it with just a snack at the bottom so he has to put his nose in to get it. Then put it over his snout and feed him snacks through the wires. Practice putting the food through so you know how to do it since it is tricky. Within days he'll be thrilled to see it. Then try putting it on him while smiling and giving him some snacks. Start with a short time at home. Pretty soon he won't mind at all.

The reason you need to do this is you never know when you'll turn a corner and someone will be there that you didn't anticipate. Also I've asked kids not to pet my dog before and there is always one who won't listen. My dog is 15 now and doesn't go out but when he did warning people off wasn't good enough. He never had an incident but better safe than sorry and really you may feel sorry for him in a muzzle but with the correct introduction he won't mind at all. Also don't use it as a punishment. Only with a happy voice for happy things like going out.

Best,
Michelle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
its probably you--

most likely to dog is just protective of you.. you get nervous, so the dog gets nervous-- its not rocket science-- Sounds like from day one you have treated him like your baby and what started as innocent excuses as a pup grew into serious issues as an aging adult.. my dog is unfortunately the result of a puppy mill.. I adopted her at 6 months after being "locked up for 2 months at the store", purchased as a mistake, then returned to a shelter to hopefully find her a new home.. dogs live in the moment-- whatever happened, has happened.. they dont stay up all night stressing like we do.. change your behavior first, then the dog should follow.. otherwise you need professional help beyond a forum..
go watch the dog whisperer at the very least to learn a few pointers on your own energy/ leadership skills.. your baby SHOULD not and CANNOT bite his onwer/ leader
i wish you & pooch good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Who's in charge?

IDEA - Have you tried an at home bootcamp yourself? I have a pit bull that started to become dog agressive at about 8 months old. This method worked like magic!!! It was a little hard on me at first because I was babying her big time. But, YOU HAVE to be the leader in your dogs eyes. If your dog has bitten you he definitely sees himself as the leader.(I recommed reading Cesar's books too) Here is the Boot Camp part below, and I will also give you a link for all of the information to read. I suggest researching online and reading books to educate yourself as much as possible on how to deal with your dog's issues.

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=3458

Canine Boot Camp for Alpha Attitude Adjustment
From this day forward, you're going to teach your dog that he is a dog, not a miniature human being in a furry suit. His mother taught him how to be a dog once and how to take orders. Along the way, through lack of training or misunderstood intentions, he's forgotten. With your help, he's going to remember what he is and how he fits into the world. Before long, he's even going to like it!

Dogs were bred to look to humans for food, companionship and guidance. An alpha dog doesn't ask for what he wants, he demands it. He lets you know in no uncertain terms that he wants his dinner, that he wants to go out, that he wants to play and be petted and that he wants these things right now. You're going to teach him that from now on, he has to earn what he gets. No more free rides. This is going to be a shock to his system at first but you'll be surprised how quickly he'll catch on and that he'll actually become eager to please you.

If your dog doesn't already know the simple command SIT, teach it to him. Reward him with praise and a tidbit. Don't go overboard with the praise. A simple "Good boy!" in a happy voice is enough. Now, every time your dog wants something - his dinner, a trip outside, a walk, some attention, anything - tell him (remember don't ask him, tell him) to SIT first. When he does, praise him with a "Good Boy!", then tell him OKAY and give him whatever it is he wants as a reward. If he refuses to SIT, walk away and ignore him. No SIT, no reward. If you don't think he understands the command, work on his training some more. If he just doesn't want to obey, ignore him - don't give him what he wants or reward him in any fashion.

Make him sit before giving him his dinner, make him sit at the door before going outside, make him sit in front of you to be petted, make him sit before giving him his toy. If you normally leave food out for him all the time, stop. Go to a twice daily feeding and you decide what time of day he'll be fed. Make him sit for his dinner. If he won't obey the command - no dinner. Walk away and ignore him. Bring the food out later and tell him again to SIT. If he understands the command, don't tell him more than once. He heard you the first time. Give commands from a standing position and use a deep, firm tone of voice.

If the dog respects certain members of the family but not others, let the others be the ones to feed him and bring the good things to his life for now. Show them how to make him obey the SIT command and how to walk away and ignore him if he won't do as he's told. It's important that your whole family follows this program. Dogs are like kids - if they can't have their way with Mom, they'll go ask Dad. In your dog's case, if he finds a member of the family that he can dominate, he'll continue to do so. You want your dog to learn that he has to respect and obey everyone. Remember - his place is at the bottom of the totem pole. Bouncing him from the top spot helps but if he thinks he's anywhere in the middle, you're still going to have problems.

Think - you know your dog and know what he's likely to do under most circumstances. Stay a step ahead of him and anticipate his behavior so you can avoid or correct it. If he gets into the trash and growls when scolded, make the trash can inaccessible. If he likes to bolt out the door ahead of you, put a leash on him. Make him sit and wait while you open the door and give him permission - OKAY! - To go out. If you’re alpha dog doesn't like to come when he's called (and he probably doesn't!), don't let him outside off leash. Without a leash, you have no control over him and he knows it.

Good Luck! Give this a try. I'm telling you my dog was attacking my other dog in the house and after starting this boot camp it has completely stopped. I am amazed how well and quickly it worked.

Lori
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
I know that here in Albuquerque our City Pound actually has a behaviorist on staff, in hopes of helping people to keep their pets and not getting rid of them. Have you checked into help that might be available for free or on a limited budget? Just a thought....
 
Z

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Yikes

The last thing that you want to do with a fearful dog is instill more fear so be careful about what techniques you use.

I think you need a very good trainer and it would be worth the money to save up for one or ask for training as a gift the next birthday you have.
Make sure the trainer has experience with fearful dogs and uses all positive techniques.

It sounds like your dog is being possesive, not protective. There is a difference. A few books that might be good are Patricia McConnell's booklets, "How To Be The Leader of Your Pack" and "The Cautious Canine".
Also Nicolas Dodman's "The Dog Who Loved Too Much".

Talk to your vet about the possibility of using some medication for a while.
Most vets have Karen Overall's book about medically treating behavior problems in dogs.

Sometimes 8 months or so on an anti-anxiety drug can do wonders for a fearful dog. *Not* clomicalm which is contraindicated for a dog that bites, but amitryptoline and others in that family.

You will still have to do the behavioral work though. You get a cheesburger from McDonalds (or whatever your dog thinks is the greatest food in the world) and cut it into cheerio size pieces.

While you are shoveling these into your dogs mouth, brush him or touch his butt or whatever it is he doesn't like. Don't do it for a prolonged time but pair it with a really good thing, like the cheeseburger and do it for a few minutes every day.

Take him to the vet and do the same thing. Start outside if you need to or in the car. Start before he starts to freak out. Pull up to the vets, feed him bits of cheeseburger and drive away.

When he is ready to move forward get out of the car and repeat. When he is ready, go sit in the waiting room, feed him the cheeseburger bits and then leave. Then have him weighed, feeding him the whole while and leave. Take it one step at a time and don't go too fast.

Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
I would have him checked out by a vet. Previous posters have talked about neurological issues and I agree. There are several brain issues such as tumors that can alter behavior. The idea that he bites you and them sort of snaps out of it is a little bit concerning. I wish you the best of luck. I also have a fear aggressive dog and we received the same response by the trainer and the behaviorist. We should put him down for safety reasons but my boyfriend won't hear of it so we keep working on it. We found that a gentle leader was helpful on walks to control him and show we were in command. As soon as Wily lounged we would walk in the other direction for a few steps and then make him sit and put ourself in between the distraction and Wily. It helps but he will still fear bite strangers and me if I try and be alpha. He's just a dominate dog with a horrible past. Like I said maybe try a gentle leader and check out the neuro problems. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
thoughts on aggression

We have a dog from a rescue group that has baggage... fear of strangers. Not so much anymore. I do believe when you have a dog like this you always have anxiousness yourself when you are out with them. You cant make much progress until you can rid yourself of this anxiety too. It travels right down to the dog. I would try and find out what makes this dog the happiest. Some are ball crazy or maybe it is treats, frisbee, running. Some dogs thrive on obedience and cant wait for that next command. Try and find what gets his total attention and have fun. Once you find his drive you can use it to divert attention. I just think you need to get to a point where you both have no worries and then maybe training on his issues will be smoother. What has helped with my fearful dog is wearing him out with fun and then including other people. My dogs love to chase a lure. When we go to a park it always draws attention. Chase (the fearful one) was running and a man with his dog came up to me. The first thing I told him was that the dog may come off the lure and run up to him and bark... please just ignore him. It didnt happen, chase was too interested in the lure. Of course my dog is a fear barker not biter and this is what has helped us. I hope you find what works for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
This helps me a lot! I have two young pitbulls and my 9 month old female is showing signs of aggression. I'm definitely going to try everything you said and I really am greatful you posted this! Again, thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Pitbull training

This site, http://www.pbrc.net/training.html has a lot of great resources for training pitbulls and pit bulls in general. My pit bull is 1 year and at about 7-8 months old she started becoming very dominant and dog agressive towards the other dogs (not people) in the house. The "no free lunch program" worked wonders and I'm still amazed. There has not been a single dog fight since I started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I agree with the advice about having your dog wear a muzzle when he is out for a walk.

This is somewhat off the subject, but if you have an aggressive animal, I would be very selective about who you tell. My friend's husband went to the doctor because the family cat bit him, and the doctor told him he was legally obliged to inform the authorities. The cat had never displayed aggression before, it was just a one time incident where her husband was trying pick him up when he was scared. Anyway, they pleaded with the doctor not to tell, but within a day animal control shows up and confiscates her cat. They finally said she could have her cat back after a week, but it would be several hundreds of dollars to get him back!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
This site, http://www.pbrc.net/training.html has a lot of great resources for training pitbulls and pit bulls in general. My pit bull is 1 year and at about 7-8 months old she started becoming very dominant and dog agressive towards the other dogs (not people) in the house. The "no free lunch program" worked wonders and I'm still amazed. There has not been a single dog fight since I started.
It's been about a month since I started the "no free lunch program" and you're right. It worked wonders. She sits without command when she knows she's getting something, she gets along great with her playmate, Mako, and I've not had to worry about her since.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
Don't forget to keep up the good work! NILIF Google "Alpha dog Boot Camp" without the quotes.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top