[Kibblelady]

Monster, I love anything that comes out of OPF lol I have used Blackwood, Dave's Simply the Best, Annamaet and Lifes Abundance, Verus as well. (realize I have had many dogs in my home over the last 15 years, hence the various diets.) all these foods are made at OPF as well as Regal, Canine Caviar and a number of others (notice no recalled foods in there) I usually will look for a food out of this plant and much prefer it. I become frustrated if I cannot find one. I wish Verus included probiotics :/ I am really struck by how many foods choose to manufacture elsewhere sometimes.

Monster do you know the comparison of cost for manufactures using other plants instead of OPF? Like is OPFs more costly than other plants? I know the ingredients they source are.

As far as the original topic I believe most if not all of the foods coming out of OPF have the same ash levels or very close. Each of the foods listed are very similar in formulations, so much so I can usually pick them out when I simply see the ingredient list (I did this with Dr. Tims lol) Knowing they have a winning formulation and cook rate I am stunned when people refer to these foods as "sub par" and well... I'll leave it at that.

 

[Kibblelady]

If his food is so good then I would see it at some of the better boutique stores here in the PNW but I have never seen it anywhere up here.............

I imagine you have not seen Blackwood over the years? They had a limited shipping area for the longest time also, I am not sure if that is changing now but all foods are not always available in all areas.

 

[monster'sdad]

If his food is so good then I would see it at some of the better boutique stores here in the PNW but I have never seen it anywhere up here.............

You will. It will hit the entire northeast through Zeigler's in the next month or so. He told me he had to delay the retail launch outside the midwest until he finished the printed bags. He was using plain white bags and the distributors wanted something flashy for the stores. Typical for the east and west coast consumer. I imagine he will get a distributor for the west soon.

You can buy 44lb bags on Petflow for a song. That is how I buy it. Free shipping, no tax. One month of Pursuit or Momentum and you will be sold. Even going to a 25% fat food like Momentum is a breeze.

 

[meggels]

I don't necessarily judge a food based solely on availability....

Acana and Orijen are just now getting easier to find for me locally....Fromm is still not that easy to find...Nutrisource and Earthborn are others that are getting shelf space in stores now too...

 

[monster'sdad]

Monster, I love anything that comes out of OPF lol I have used Blackwood, Dave's Simply the Best, Annamaet and Lifes Abundance, Verus as well. (realize I have had many dogs in my home over the last 15 years, hence the various diets.) all these foods are made at OPF as well as Regal, Canine Caviar and a number of others (notice no recalled foods in there) I usually will look for a food out of this plant and much prefer it. I become frustrated if I cannot find one. I wish Verus included probiotics :/ I am really struck by how many foods choose to manufacture elsewhere sometimes.

Monster do you know the comparison of cost for manufactures using other plants instead of OPF? Like is OPFs more costly than other plants? I know the ingredients they source are.

As far as the original topic I believe most if not all of the foods coming out of OPF have the same ash levels or very close. Each of the foods listed are very similar in formulations, so much so I can usually pick them out when I simply see the ingredient list (I did this with Dr. Tims lol) Knowing they have a winning formulation and cook rate I am stunned when people refer to these foods as "sub par" and well... I'll leave it at that.

Higher costs because the food is made at a much slower rate. People that refer to Dr. Tim's as subpar are also the same people that believe their dogs should be fed like people and fall for lots of marketing junk. It is The Honest Kitchen crowd, that is what I call it.

I am using Dr. Tim's Pursuit and Momentum and would use Annamaet Ultra second. Most foods cannot stand up to these when dogs are training, whelping or under stress.

 

[Jacksons Mom]

I'm kinda disappointed that Acana is changing the formula and making the bags smaller AND raising the price.

He does very well on most Acana formulas (except the chicken based ones - lots of poop on those) so I'm hesitant to switch. But not sure I want to continue paying the prices, as I'm not entirely sure it's worth it. From what I'm understanding, if there's higher ash, the quality of meat may not necessarily be the greatest? So I'm thinking is it really worth it to pay almost $20 for a 5lb bag of food?

I was looking into Earthborn because the price difference really is huge, and it'd be easier on my wallet, (but again, most are a bit 'up there' in ash content), but then I've also wanted to try Canine Caviar grain free foods, but the price scares me (it's like $40 for a 12lb bag!!) but essentially, it's about the same for what I'm paying for Acana, but with much lower ash (5.6%, I think). I just really think the protein/fat ratios would work well with Jackson, as well as the more simple ingredient list, and I also like that their lowest ash I can find in a grain-free food. So I MAY try a 4lb bag just to give it a go. However the 599 calorie/cup confuses the hell out of me. That's a LOT. Are they using a different kind of system to determine calories?

 

[meggels]

Brittany, what about Natures Variety LID formulas?

 

[DaViking]

I will defer to Dr. Greg Aldrich, PHD on this point:

"Pulses are grown on each of the continents with arable land and in about every type of climate and soil. There are at least 11 primary pulses recognized and a multitude of varieties or accessions within each group. Global production exceeds 40 million metric ton annually, with India, Canada, Brazil and China being the largest producers. The dry beans make up nearly half the annual production, peas about 25% of the mix, chickpeas around 20% and lentils less than 10% (FAO, 2006).

These ingredients contain about twice as much protein as grains (approximately 20-25%) and have been described by some as "the poor man's meat" because of their quality amino acid profile. As it relates to cat and dog nutrition, the sulfur amino acids, methionine and (or) cysteine, are the first-limiting amino acids.

With the exception of chickpeas, most pulses are low fat. However, the fat is rich in the nutritionally important linoleic (C18:2n6) acid with small amounts of omega-3 linolenic (C18:3n3) acid as well. The ash (mineral) content of pulses is two to three times that of common grains like wheat and corn, but relative to protein level, pulses carry half to a third of the "ash penalty" compared to rendered animal protein meals."

That's taken from the industry website.
20% to 26% is correct in their raw form, which often is the most appropriate described state in terms of human consumption. Once processed the protein count isn't that big of a factor compared to more traditional ingredients, more like 3 to 4 times the protein. I think there are other questions surrounding legumes that are more interesting to discuss, like phosphor utilization, enzyme inhibitors and fermentation concerns.

 

[monster'sdad]

I'm kinda disappointed that Acana is changing the formula and making the bags smaller AND raising the price.

He does very well on most Acana formulas (except the chicken based ones - lots of poop on those) so I'm hesitant to switch. But not sure I want to continue paying the prices, as I'm not entirely sure it's worth it. From what I'm understanding, if there's higher ash, the quality of meat may not necessarily be the greatest? So I'm thinking is it really worth it to pay almost $20 for a 5lb bag of food?

I was looking into Earthborn because the price difference really is huge, and it'd be easier on my wallet, (but again, most are a bit 'up there' in ash content), but then I've also wanted to try Canine Caviar grain free foods, but the price scares me (it's like $40 for a 12lb bag!!) but essentially, it's about the same for what I'm paying for Acana, but with much lower ash (5.6%, I think). I just really think the protein/fat ratios would work well with Jackson, as well as the more simple ingredient list, and I also like that their lowest ash I can find in a grain-free food. So I MAY try a 4lb bag just to give it a go. However the 599 calorie/cup confuses the hell out of me. That's a LOT. Are they using a different kind of system to determine calories?

Canine Caviar is another gimmick company, and it is not made at Ohio Pet any longer. The calories they state are very misleading. Ask they company what the calories are per KG and why they don't put it on the website. The amounts they state are high because more kibble fits in the cup, not because it is any more caloric.

 

[whiteleo]

I don't necessarily judge a food based solely on availability....

Acana and Orijen are just now getting easier to find for me locally....Fromm is still not that easy to find...Nutrisource and Earthborn are others that are getting shelf space in stores now too...

I know a lot of people buy online but I never know when I will get a foster in and don't want to just have food sitting around, so for me I need to have kibble that is available to me locally and none of the foods mentioned have ever made it to the shelves but Canine Caviar which I wasn't impressed with several years ago when I looked at it.

 

[monster'sdad]

20% to 26% is correct in their raw form, which often is the most appropriate described state in terms of human consumption.

Well Dr. Adlrich is one of the top animal nutritionists. The trend in using legumes is all about cost and meeting the GA for protein.

 

[meggels]

I know a lot of people buy online but I never know when I will get a foster in and don't want to just have food sitting around, so for me I need to have kibble that is available to me locally and none of the foods mentioned have ever made it to the shelves but Canine Caviar which I wasn't impressed with several years ago when I looked at it.

Same here, not for fosters lol, I just prefer to have a food I can find in person. I get my food at cost though through my friend, so that's another reason why lol. I think I paid like $24 for the 15lb bag of Acana, which was nice lol.

 

[Jacksons Mom]

Canine Caviar is another gimmick company, and it is not made at Ohio Pet any longer. The calories they state are very misleading. Ask they company what the calories are per KG and why they don't put it on the website. The amounts they state are high because more kibble fits in the cup, not because it is any more caloric.

Where do you see it's no longer made at Ohio Pet?

 

[monster'sdad]

Where do you see it's no longer made at Ohio Pet?

I read about it a while back. The food is made in NY somewhere now, my guess CVF.

 

[Jacksons Mom]

I read about it a while back. The food is made in NY somewhere now, my guess CVF.

A Canine Caviar staff member just emailed and informed me that Chenango was not capable of keeping up with the amount of volume they required. They are now at Hi-Tek in Dublin GA.

 

[monster'sdad]

A Canine Caviar staff member just emailed and informed me that Chenango was not capable of keeping up with the amount of volume they required. They are now at Hi-Tek in Dublin GA.

Yuck...........

 

[meggels]

What's wrong with hi-tek?

 

[Kibblelady]

I had never heard of the plant, heard of the foods... (shrug) Monster, what are the issues with HyTek?

 

[Jacksons Mom]

Yeah, what's wrong with Hi-Tek?

*shrugs* whatever... I'm trying it. I bought a bag last night. He's eating it up, poops are great so far, but I'll see how he does.

It seems you're going to find something wrong with every plant and I'm not feeding Dr. Tims or Anneameat, most of the formulas are chicken based. And every time he has chicken based foods, he's got big soft poop and gunky eyes.

He's always done the best on Acana, so we'll see. I'm definitely not giving it up... just kinda irritated with Acana's recent formula change, smaller bag and price increase. Not that CC is any cheaper So, I don't know. Was initially looking for cheaper (Earthborn) and ended up buying CC instead to try. I like the 5.7% ash. And the protein/fat ratios.

 

[Kibblelady]

Yeah, what's wrong with Hi-Tek?

*shrugs* whatever... I'm trying it. I bought a bag last night. He's eating it up, poops are great so far, but I'll see how he does.

It seems you're going to find something wrong with every plant and I'm not feeding Dr. Tims or Anneameat, most of the formulas are chicken based. And every time he has chicken based foods, he's got big soft poop and gunky eyes.

He's always done the best on Acana, so we'll see. I'm definitely not giving it up... just kinda irritated with Acana's recent formula change, smaller bag and price increase. Not that CC is any cheaper So, I don't know. Was initially looking for cheaper (Earthborn) and ended up buying CC instead to try. I like the 5.7% ash. And the protein/fat ratios.

No issues with Ohio Pet Foods lol (being funny) I have never even heard of HiTek which is odd... so I cannot comment on them. Blackwood does now offer a "grain free" Salmon recipe if you were interested in trying something from this plant...just for an FYI and an option if you needed one.