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In case any one was interested - I emailed Champion about the new formulas and ash levels.

Here is what I got;

The ash levels for the new Regional’s are as follows:
Wild Prairie- 7%
Pacifica-8%
Grasslands- 9%
Ranchlands-9%

The ash content for our ACANA Lamb & Okanagan Apple is 9%, our Duck & Bartlett Pear as well as our Chicken & Burbank Potato have levels of 7.5%.
 

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Would this be the levels for both the dog and cat formulas, or just the dog formulas?
 
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When would you consider the levels to be high? Not to sound completely ignorant but what is ash and what can be the negative effects of too high levels of it?
 

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Ash is basically if you take some of the food, burn it down, ash is what is left that will not burn. It is comprised mostly of minerals and inert things that cannot burn away. High levels of ash usually indicate high mineral levels (such as calcium, potassium etc)

Here you go Why Is There Ash in Your Dog's Food?
 

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No, those levels are average.
According to whom? Considering these new foods are chock full of split peas, field peas (beans) and lentils, these ash numbers are unimpressive. These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes, so you can see how the foods have been cheapened.

The ash levels shows you the quality of the protein used is lower than it used to be. I would bet the amount of protein from animal sources is now just 65% - 75%, really very mediocre. I guess the new owners have found a way to squeeze extra profit out of the food by stuffing the foods with peas, beans and lentils. The fiber is also up quite a bit.

Dr. Tim's can make foods like Pursuit (30% protein) and Momentum (35% protein) with well over 90% protein from animal sources with 6% or less in ash. That is a well made product. The non-meat protein source, brown rice is only 2% protein, nothing compared to peas, beans and lentils.

These new Acana formulas are a real sell-out. Most consumer will still be in denial though.
 

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According to whom? .
According to typical ash levels in commercial foods that I have been seeing. The food I use has max 6.5% but I was under the impression that was not typical nor average. You do realize above I said average right?
 

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Just an FYI to the thread both Dr. Tim's food and the food I feed are made at Ohio Pet Foods as is Annamaet, Canine Caviar, Blackwood and a number of others. From my understanding 6.5% ash would be common for a food coming out of this plant, just an FYI to tuck away.
 

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According to whom? Considering these new foods are chock full of split peas, field peas (beans) and lentils, these ash numbers are unimpressive. These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes, so you can see how the foods have been cheapened.

The ash levels shows you the quality of the protein used is lower than it used to be. I would bet the amount of protein from animal sources is now just 65% - 75%, really very mediocre. I guess the new owners have found a way to squeeze extra profit out of the food by stuffing the foods with peas, beans and lentils. The fiber is also up quite a bit.

Dr. Tim's can make foods like Pursuit (30% protein) and Momentum (35% protein) with well over 90% protein from animal sources with 6% or less in ash. That is a well made product. The non-meat protein source, brown rice is only 2% protein, nothing compared to peas, beans and lentils.

These new Acana formulas are a real sell-out. Most consumer will still be in denial though.
What food would you recommend then?
 

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According to whom? Considering these new foods are chock full of split peas, field peas (beans) and lentils, these ash numbers are unimpressive. These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes, so you can see how the foods have been cheapened.

The ash levels shows you the quality of the protein used is lower than it used to be. I would bet the amount of protein from animal sources is now just 65% - 75%, really very mediocre. I guess the new owners have found a way to squeeze extra profit out of the food by stuffing the foods with peas, beans and lentils. The fiber is also up quite a bit.

Dr. Tim's can make foods like Pursuit (30% protein) and Momentum (35% protein) with well over 90% protein from animal sources with 6% or less in ash. That is a well made product. The non-meat protein source, brown rice is only 2% protein, nothing compared to peas, beans and lentils.

These new Acana formulas are a real sell-out. Most consumer will still be in denial though.
Are you just another Dr. Tim advocate?
 

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These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes,
Not once processed. Legumes comes in at high single digits, potatoes low single digits processed. Nitrogen measurement from neither can't be that high unless the formula is filled up with several legumes. In comparison protein from white rice processed comes in at 7%, yellow corn 3%.
 

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I was recently reading the original Dr. Tim thread this morning and I was upset for him...( I am not done reading the thread yet though..). I know many people think they come off well but reading that was like watching someone walk through glass :( It was not nice... His defensiveness IMO became warranted. IMO this is a good product because I know how kibbles are made and the plant he is having it made at, I know how much money he is spending to have it made...it is not cheap at all. The insinuations that he was an ignorant vet or did something sub par was not correct IMO as his product meets what is a very digested and assimilated product that is of very good quality...... I think people were a bit harsh. In looking at many things from this man online he appears, just like us, to discuss kibble and nutrition and yeah wants to talk about his product as he is proud of it.... I don't see many company owners online talking about their product, it is very unusual and I for one would like to take advantage of his knowledge of many things that are not well known about the formulation and production of a kibble product. Bragging about a kibble product imo is no different than people bragging about their own diet be it kibble or raw. It isn't hurting anything. Isn't there room for everyone here? :(
Just my opinion....
 

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I was recently reading the original Dr. Tim thread this morning and I was upset for him...( I am not done reading the thread yet though..). I know many people think they come off well but reading that was like watching someone walk through glass :( It was not nice... His defensiveness IMO became warranted. IMO this is a good product because I know how kibbles are made and the plant he is having it made at, I know how much money he is spending to have it made...it is not cheap at all. The insinuations that he was an ignorant vet or did something sub par was not correct IMO as his product meets what is a very digested and assimilated product that is of very good quality...... I think people were a bit harsh. In looking at many things from this man online he appears, just like us, to discuss kibble and nutrition and yeah wants to talk about his product as he is proud of it.... I don't see many company owners online talking about their product, it is very unusual and I for one would like to take advantage of his knowledge of many things that are not well known about the formulation and production of a kibble product. Bragging about a kibble product imo is no different than people bragging about their own diet be it kibble or raw. It isn't hurting anything. Isn't there room for everyone here? :(
Just my opinion....
Well put.

But, did I miss something? I was slapped on the hand for standing up for Dr. Tim (not everyone else that endorses it) in a thread that was since deleted on another forum. Was there one here to?
 

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Well put.

But, did I miss something? I was slapped on the hand for standing up for Dr. Tim (not everyone else that endorses it) in a thread that was since deleted on another forum. Was there one here to?
Yeah, I had done a Google search for "Dr Tims pet food" and found a link to a very long thread on this board I'll PM it to you.
 

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Ahhh yes, I think I remember that one.

Dr. Tim does seem like a nice guy who is pretty damn smart...wish he posted here still...
 

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Ahhh yes, I think I remember that one.

Dr. Tim does seem like a nice guy who is pretty damn smart...wish he posted here still...
It is ironic that people lashed out at Dr. Tim because if they realized how many pro trainers in a variety of events used his products they would smarten up. Also, his foods are the highest rated by actual users on this very website, 8.8/10. Acana is pretty mediocre by the way, 6.7/10, tied with Petsmart's house brand. That speaks.

His foods are without question some of the best on the market. Tested, well made, pro-quality. I believe he had 3 teams finish the Iditarod this year in the top ten, including first place.

Maybe Dr. Hunt should have dressed his dogs up like sushi chefs and called the food Chicken A La Veg, or lied to his customers like Champion does. How about that?
 

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So are you not a fan of Fromm lol?

What about foods like Precise, Verus, Nutrisource? I started a thread on manufacturers in this section, would be curious to hear your thoughts lol.


I have Abbie on a bag of Acana right now, the chicken based one (orange bag) and she's doing meh.

She's doing really well on Earthborn's Great Plains Feast and Fromm's Chicken a la Veg and Pork and Applesauce though.
 

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If his food is so good then I would see it at some of the better boutique stores here in the PNW but I have never seen it anywhere up here.............
 

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Not once processed. Legumes comes in at high single digits, potatoes low single digits processed. Nitrogen measurement from neither can't be that high unless the formula is filled up with several legumes. In comparison protein from white rice processed comes in at 7%, yellow corn 3%.
I will defer to Dr. Greg Aldrich, PHD on this point:

"Pulses are grown on each of the continents with arable land and in about every type of climate and soil. There are at least 11 primary pulses recognized and a multitude of varieties or accessions within each group. Global production exceeds 40 million metric ton annually, with India, Canada, Brazil and China being the largest producers. The dry beans make up nearly half the annual production, peas about 25% of the mix, chickpeas around 20% and lentils less than 10% (FAO, 2006).

These ingredients contain about twice as much protein as grains (approximately 20-25%) and have been described by some as "the poor man's meat" because of their quality amino acid profile. As it relates to cat and dog nutrition, the sulfur amino acids, methionine and (or) cysteine, are the first-limiting amino acids.

With the exception of chickpeas, most pulses are low fat. However, the fat is rich in the nutritionally important linoleic (C18:2n6) acid with small amounts of omega-3 linolenic (C18:3n3) acid as well. The ash (mineral) content of pulses is two to three times that of common grains like wheat and corn, but relative to protein level, pulses carry half to a third of the "ash penalty" compared to rendered animal protein meals."
 
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